Engine start detection by Orion

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svoop asked Sep 4, '23

Engine start detection by Orion

I've installed an Orion-Tr Smart 12/12 30 in our camper based on a Fiat Ducato 250 built 2010 featuring a more powerful alternator than the default one at the time.

Turns out, engine start detection is not that easy. Once the engine runs, the Orion reads below 13V, insufficient to start charging using default settings. I've reduced these values, but then the Orion sometimes continues to charge after engine shutdown thus wearing the starter battery. The symptoms are very similar to the ones described in this therad:

https://community.victronenergy.com/questions/118548/orion-tr-smart-setup-advice-how-low-can-my-input-v.html

For now, I've connected a switch between the L- and H-pins and turn the Orion on and off manually,. It would of course be better if these pins could be used to detect the running engine e.g. via the ignition switch only.

There's a diagram in the Orion manual suggesting this:

However, I don't know where exactly this link would have to go on a Ducato like ours. Maybe someone has figured it out already?

Cheers, -sven

orion-tr smart

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Bob K commented · Sep 07, 2023 at 02:19 AM

From where did you get that screencap? I noticed that the charger is illustrated laying on an angle so you can see the bottom, but none of the 12-12|30 pdf manuals I've seen illustrate them in that fashion.

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Answer 1 · 2023-09-04T20:38:16Z

kevgermany answered · Sep 04, 2023 at 08:38 PM

You have two choices. Find an unused terminal in the fuse box that's switched. Or tap into the switched feed to the radio.

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Answer 2 · 2023-09-06T23:13:19Z

svoop answered · Sep 06, 2023 at 11:13 PM

@kevgermany Thanks a lot for your reply! Tapping into the radio feed is a very nice idea! Actually, I don't even have to tap because the radio is wired to the service battery of the camper.

Just to make sure I do this right: I connect the switched 12V feed of the radio to which pin on the Victron? (The image suggest to both the L- and H-pin, why both?)

As I understand: The H-pin carries 12V and the L-pin switches the Victron off (<7V) or on (>7V).

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kevgermany ♦♦ commented · Sep 18, 2023 at 02:06 AM

@Bob K has answered perfectly.

One point... Most radios have two positive feeds. One direct from battery via the fuses, the other via the ignition switch and fuses. This turns the radio on with the ignition. Your comment about wired direct to battery/not tapping in makes me wonder if you're picking the wrong feed.

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Answer 3 · 2023-09-07T02:04:54Z

Bob K answered · Sep 07, 2023 at 02:04 AM

You don't want "Engine Detection Override". You just need Connection Remote On-Off Option B. Connect an ignition switched wire to the H-pin only. Note: The Victron picture is kind of shoddy because it shows getting this power from the input wire, which doesn't make any sense unless the input wire was switched already. I think it's a bad picture. Nonetheless, connecting an ignition switched wire to the H-pin only is the way to ensure the charger is only on when the vehicle is on.

That way, your Engine Shutdown Detection settings will still help the DC Charger play nicely with the smart alternator (derating so as to not fall below the Shutdown Voltage, etc.). You can set your Shutdown Voltage to a low voltage (say, 10v) so that the DC Charger will signal the alternator to output more power; but the DC Charger will only draw that hard on the alternator while the vehicle is on. As soon as the vehicle turns off, the DC Charger will turn off and stop drawing.

If you'll have trouble finding or running switched power from your tow vehicle back to the camper, another option is to get switched power from your camper running lights. Whenever you turn on running lights or headlights, then, the charger would get the signal to turn on and start charging.

If you use the Engine Shutdown Detection Override function, the manual says the charger will revert to using the Engine Shutdown Detection settings as soon as the vehicle turns off, and that would be no good if you have your Shutdown Voltage set below 12.78v (the 100% SOC voltage for a lead acid battery) because it would continue putting a load on the starter battery.

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Answer 4 · 2023-09-07T15:40:04Z

svoop answered · Sep 07, 2023 at 03:40 PM

Hi Bob

Thanks for your explanations and for sharing from obviously a much better manual than the one I found. Radio 12V+ to the H-pin then, great! Final question though: Should I put a fuse into the line just before it goes onto the H-pin?

Cheers, -sven

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Bob K commented · Sep 07, 2023 at 11:10 PM

Whatever radio line you connect to will already be fused. As long as the wire size you use has an ampacity that is equal to or greater than the wire you're connecting to, then the existing radio fuse will be sufficient.

It's just a very, very low current signal wire, so the risk is pretty low anyway; however, if you do put a fuse in, put it in as close as possible to where you attach to the radio wire so that you protect the full length of your new signal wire.

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svoop Bob K commented · Sep 17, 2023 at 07:32 PM

@Bob K Thanks a lot for your help!! I got the materials, all it takes now is a rainy day to put the cable from the radio to the charger.

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