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craigj avatar image
craigj asked

DCDC charger only charges for 5 sec at a time

Hi


My Victron Orion-TR 24/12 - 30amp charger runs for 5 seconds and then cuts out due to voltage drop from the alternator for about 10 seconds then runs again. It continually does this 5 sec on then 10 sec off cycle

Is the alternator overloaded?

Shut down volts is set to 13.1 - is this too low?


cheers

orion-tr smart
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Bob K avatar image Bob K commented ·
Post screencaps of your Engine Shutdown Detection settings and your Input Voltage Lockout settings.
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craigj avatar image craigj Bob K commented ·

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craigj avatar image craigj Bob K commented ·

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craigj avatar image craigj Bob K commented ·

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Bob K avatar image Bob K commented ·
Do you have the 24/12-30 model or the 12/12-30 model? Your voltages are currently set as if you have the 12/12-30 model.
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4 Answers
kevgermany avatar image
kevgermany answered ·

You have probably got a smart alternator. Try reducing the shut down voltage and make sure the Orion has smart alternator set.

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craigj avatar image
craigj answered ·

HI


yes, it is a smart alternator and is set to that. Shut down voltage is 13.1 currently. How low can you go?

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Bob K avatar image
Bob K answered ·

With a smart alternator, you'll have to fuss with settings a bit. You'll need to set the Shutdown Voltage low enough that the charger will stay on even when the "smart alternator" reduces its voltage output but not so low that you continue depleting the starter battery even after you turn off the vehicle.

You may also be tripping the Input Voltage Lockout (you currently have it set at 12.5v) if your alternator, like mine, is known for occasionally dipping down to 12v or lower.

I presume that the green jumper on the DC charger is standard configuration and you don't have any switched wires on the L pin or H pin, correct?

If you don't have a multimeter to read voltage at the starter battery, that'll be very helpful for troubleshooting.

I recommend you set your Shutdown Voltage to 12.7v and turn off the Input Voltage Lockout feature. Here's why:

  • A 100% SOC lead acid battery sits at about 12.78v. You're getting some voltage drop on the conductor from your starter battery to the DC Charger, so when the DC Charger is reading a 12.7v input value, your starter battery is almost surely over 12.78v (reflecting a .08v voltage drop. If you knew your actual voltage drop, you could set this figure to be more precise to account for that known voltage drop). This ensures you don't continue depleting the starter battery after you turn off the vehicle.
  • When the alternator turns down its voltage output and the DC charger sees a lower input voltage, it will automatically derate its load on the starter battery/alternator as it approaches the Shutdown Voltage. So the DC charger may start with a 30 amp load and then reduce to, say, a 13 amp load as your smart alternator turns down its voltage. This keeps the DC charger from putting a load spike on your vehicle and potentially causing the voltage to dip rapidly (which might cause the DC charger to turn off).
  • Once the DC charger sees an input voltage below 12.7v (your Engine Shutdown voltage) for more than 60 seconds, it will assume the vehicle is off and will turn off the DC charger load.
  • You don't need the Input Voltage Lockout function right now because the Engine Shutdown Detection feature is performing that function for you. Unlike the Engine Shutdown Detection feature, which will continue to operate/charge for 60 seconds even if the alternator voltage drops below 12.7v (a feature to allow for smart alternator fluctuations), the Input Voltage Lockout will instantly stop charging if the alternator drops below that 12.5v.

Start there and fuss with the Engine Shutdown settings a bit to try to get maximum output from the DC charger. If that doesn't work, then you might have a temperamental smart alternator like I do that will require more precise settings and a switched input wire to the jumper H-pin: https://community.victronenergy.com/questions/100597/orion-tr-smart-121230-outputs-less-than-half-amps.html


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craigj avatar image craigj commented ·
Hi


I have changed the settings and the DCDC charger is now charging without cutting out (unless it's supposed to) BUT the battery monitor that I have (shunt) is showing that the batteries are draining not charging.. I have double checked the wiring and can't fine an issue

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Bob K avatar image Bob K craigj commented ·
Is it a Victron shunt? Are you seeing the amperage from the DC charger on the shunt but just in a negative number...ie, -30 amps rather than +30 amps? Post a pic of your shunt and its wiring connections. Do you have the battery bank negative wire attached to the shunt?
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craigj avatar image craigj Bob K commented ·
It's a renogy shunt (my system was originally set up using their gear but I found that Victron was better for info etc)


The amperage is not a negative and the battery bank -ve wire is connected to the shunt

NB the shunt works perfectly when I use solar only. But once the dcdc charger is on then the battery storage drops - but the V go up?

e.g. i ran it for 20mins last night with the solar disconnected and the battery level dropped from 186Ah to 180Ah but the V went from 13.3 to 13.5

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Bob K avatar image Bob K craigj commented ·

Bizarre. If you're dropping from 186Ah to 180Ah while charging with the DC charger, then the shunt should show a net draw on the storage battery (i.e. a negative wattage).

  1. Is the DC charger wired to busses, fuses, and the battery in the same way the solar charger is?
  2. You've haven't said if this is a truck, a boat, a trailer, a motorhome. Is there DC to AC inverter in the picture or an AC to DC converter that could be causing a charging loop when the DC charger is on?
  3. Does the Renogy shunt have a way for you to completely charge the batteries with, say, a standalone AC charger and then set the SOC to 100%?
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craigj avatar image craigj Bob K commented ·
1. yes it is

2. it's in a canopy on the back of a ute. I have a DCto AC invert which is switched off while I have been doing this.

3. NO. I would assume that I would have to disconnect the batteries from the system to charge them with an AC charger

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Bob K avatar image Bob K craigj commented ·

Without pictures, I can't envision what else would cause that. Not sure how you could be charging with the DC charger but also be putting a huge load on the batteries...enough to discharge the batteries over and above what the DC charger is pushing into the battery.

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craigj avatar image craigj Bob K commented ·
time to take it to an auto electrician to sort out


thanks for the input

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maggiemcnabb avatar image maggiemcnabb craigj commented ·
Hi Craigj, we somehow have the exact same issue you were describing with the same combination of items (victron dcdc, renogy shunt) and I cannot figure it out. Did you ever figure out what the heck is going on? We tinkered with the settings, but still occasionally go from charging at high (correct) amps to a negative massive draw.

Thanks!

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craigj avatar image craigj maggiemcnabb commented ·

Hi, still working on it.. I changed the settings - turned off the Input Voltage Lockout function and dropped the cut out voltage down to 13.2 V

I also had the batteries grounded to the chassis rather than the shunt, so I changed that.

This all stopped it from cutting in and out constantly but is sill charging and drawing rather than charging. I've got time to play with the settings more over the next few days and will let you know what happens.

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Bob K avatar image Bob K craigj commented ·
Is there any chance that you have the In and Out wires reversed on the DC Charger?


Did the DC Charger ever work correctly or has it been like this since installation?


Also, is it the isolated or non-isolated model of DC Charger?

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craigj avatar image craigj Bob K commented ·
Hi Bob,


I have had it checked by an auto electrician now. The wiring of the DCDC charger, non isolated, is correct. He changed the earthing of the batteries which no means that it does charge sometimes and drain at other times. I will play with the charger setting to see what happens.


It has done this from the start.

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craigj avatar image craigj Bob K commented ·

all sorted now:


I let me batteries drain a bit a tried it again with no problems. BUT Once the batteries get to full they start to alternate between charging and draining. This is not an issue for me as the DCDC charger is merely a back up if I'm not getting enough power from the solar so I'll only be plugging it in when I'm low on power and getting to almost full will be fine.

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craigj avatar image craigj craigj commented ·
Hi, I let me batteries drain a bit a tried it again with no problems. BUT Once the batteries get to full they start to alternate between charging and draining. This is not an issue for me as the DCDC charger is merely a back up I'm not getting enough power from the solar so I'll only be plugging it in when I'm low on power and getting to almost full will be fine.


Have you tested yours when the batteries are below 100% full?

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craigj avatar image craigj maggiemcnabb commented ·
PS


what are the settings that you are currently running at?

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craigj avatar image
craigj answered ·

Yes it is the 12/12-30 model. I do have a multimeter so I will do some checking of the voltage drop.

Thanks for such a detailed answer & suggestions, it's really appreciated.


Cheers

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