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rgsdesign asked

F150 smart alternator and Orion Smart DC to DC charger

I had the non-smart Orion DC/DC charger installed and everything was working great. Installed a new Orion-TR Smart isolated DC/DC charger, it does not charge. When I changed it from power supply mode to charger, it does not charge. Are there settings I need to modify so it will work with my 2022 Ford F-150 smart alternator? What values should I used? I need explicit instructions please. I’m also got myself in a situation where it does not turn on and connect through Bluetooth. How do I get it back? It is installed as in figure 2 in the manual with a switch between L and H.

orion-tr smart
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rgsdesign avatar image
rgsdesign answered ·

The charger finally turned on and I was able to connect by Bluetooth. I had to wait a long time with the truck idling. Is there a way to shorten it? I still need values for the charging. BTW, I have the 12|12-18 smart charger and charging through the 7-way connector.

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kevgermany answered ·

I guess you have a switch in LH because you either want to override the automatic stuff inside the charger, possibly as a hangover from the old charger.

With a smart alternator you may have to experiment, it's controlled by the ECU and can differ from manufacturer to manufacturer.

For battery settings, check, if the defaults don't match the battery maker's numbers, set them correctly under user defined.

In shutdown detection on, set alternator type to smart. Start voltage of 14 should be ok. The tricky one is shut down voltage. Default is 13,1V, but we see reports that some vehicles go a lot lower whilst driving. You'll probably need to experiment here. But don't go so low that it's always on. Will kill the starter battery. Leave the other settings at default.

If you you have trouble:

Remove the LH switch, and run a wire direct to H for a switched feed on the ignition. This turns the Orion on when you turn the ignition on.

Then settings as above, just set cut out voltage very low, experiment, but you may need to go below 12V. There have been a couple of reports of smart alternators running at 11.9V, but the suspicion is that there's high resistance in the wiring/connections to the Orion meaning it sees the wrong voltage. Net result of this is the Orion will turn on after the engine starts and the alternator kicks in, will turn off when you switch off, won't turn on if you simply switch on to listen to the radio without starting the engine.


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kevgermany avatar image kevgermany ♦♦ commented ·
There's a delayed start voltage delay. Default is 120 seconds. You can shorten it, but the idea is to let the alternator put charge back into the battery and let the motor settle down before the Orion kicks in.
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rgsdesign answered ·

I was able to connect and record the Victron Connect app screen.

  1. After starting the truck and waiting for 4-5 minutes, Bluetooth turns on and I was able to connect to the charger. The state is Off and input voltage is 13.5V. The message is “Charge is disabled”. No output voltage.
  2. The charger then transitions to Bulk Charge state. Input voltage is 13.5v and Output voltage is 13.2v. I have Lithium batteries.
  3. The Input voltage then drops in 11.3v, 9.8v, up to 10.1v, then 10.v. Output voltage is 13.8v.
  4. After 8 seconds since the start of Bulk Charge, the charger transition to the Off state. The message is “Charge is disabled due to Input voltage lock-out”. Input voltage is still 10.0v
  5. 2 seconds later, the message changed to “Charge is disabled due to: Input voltage lock-out. Engine Shutdown detected” (2 reasons). The input voltage is 11.8v.
  6. The input voltage then increases to 12.6v, 13.1v, 13.3v,13.4v, 13.5v over the next 7 seconds.
  7. The charger state remains in the Off state and the Input voltage lock-out phrase is now gone. The message is “Charge is disabled due to: Engine shutdown detected”. Input voltage is 13.5v

It seems I need to modify the Input Lock-out voltage and the Shutdown voltage parameters to be less than 9.8v. Does that sound right? What values would you suggest?

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kevgermany avatar image kevgermany ♦♦ commented ·

Those changes will flatten your starter battery as the orion will be always on (if you forget to switch it off). If you have a voltmeter, please check these voltages at the starter battery. We need to confirm that there isn't a wiring/resistance problem between the Orion and the starter battery. Something else odd is that the input voltage doesn't go over 14V.

If you want to rely on the LH switch, then disable engine detection and lower the cut out voltage.

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rgsdesign avatar image rgsdesign kevgermany ♦♦ commented ·

I set the Input Lock-out voltage to 8.0v and the Shutdown voltage to 9.5v since I’ve seen some input voltage as low as 9.8v.

Here is what I’m observing:

  1. After starting the truck and waiting for 8 minutes, Bluetooth turns on and I was able to connect to the charger.
  2. The charger is in the Bulk Charge state, Input voltage is 13.6v, Output voltage is 13.2v.
  3. 12 seconds later, the Input voltage drops 10.2v (Output is 13.8v). The shunt shows a current of 16.47A.
  4. Over the next 11 seconds the current drop 12.53A. Input Voltage is still at 10.1/10.2v and the Output Voltage is 13.9v.

Does this mean the charger is working as expected?

Next test was to turn off the truck.

  1. The Input voltage drops to 7.3v and the charger is in the Off state. The message is “Charge is disabled due to: Remote input inactive”
  2. Input voltage continues to drop, 7.2v, 7.1v. The message is “Charge is disabled due to: Engine Shutdown detected”
  3. Input voltage drops to 6.6v. The message is “Charge is disabled due to: Input voltage Lock-out, Engine shutdown detected”
  4. Input voltage drops to 5.0v over the next 20 seconds. Bluetooth turns off.

The L-H switch remains closed (no change during the testing). To me, it looks like engine shutdown is detected, and the charger turns itself off. Is this correct?


Should I be concern that the Input Voltage is only around 10 volts?

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Bob K avatar image Bob K rgsdesign commented ·

Have you tried taking the switch out of the LH circuit? Now that you have the smart charger, the Engine Shutdown Detection and/or Input Voltage Lockout function should fulfill the function you need without the presence of the switch.

Also, the low voltages off of the alternator you're seeing aren't unheard of. I'm working through a similar problem with the "smart" alternator on my 2017 Tacoma...the last few comments in this thread: https://community.victronenergy.com/questions/100597/orion-tr-smart-121230-outputs-less-than-half-amps.html

However, yours are really low even after the charger turns off. Even if you were kind of dragging down the voltage of your starter battery with the load from the charger, as soon as the Engine Shutdown Detection or Input Voltage Lockout turns off charging, your starter battery should jump back up to a more normal lead acid voltage of around 12.7v once it's no longer under load from the charger. That it is continuing to decrease to 5v seems to indicate you either have a terribly failing starter battery or another serious circuit problem. A 0% State of Charge on a rested lead acid battery is 10.5v.

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kevgermany avatar image
kevgermany answered ·

It shouldn't take 8 minutes to turn on. A second or two.

Startup of charging will depend on what's set in the unit, I think default is 120s.

Smart alternator or not, the input voltages are far too low. I'd guess this is causing the delay in the charger turning on. But after that it's working as designed.

Should you be concerned about input voltage? Yes, something very odd. A charged 12V lead acid is about 12.7V. As soon as the motor starts you should see more than 13V at the battery. You should always see close too the actual battery values at the Orion inputs, even while it is charging.

Time to dig out your voltmeter, confirm battery values and actual input voltage at the Orion. This will confirm a wiring fault/high resistance. Then you trace. Could be wiring, connections, a switch (shouldn't be one), poor fuse. Check the earth/ground path too. Might be something like an engine ground connection that's about to fail completely.

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