I am looking into upgrading the service / house battery bank of a sailboat from lead-acid to LiFePO4 and considering the Orion XS for charging the LiFePO4 bank.
The system has 3 separate batteries / banks: starter, service / house and bow thruster. They are currently charged by the alternator via a 3-output battery isolator and by a AC/DC shore power charger with 3 outputs also. Since the lead-acid starter and bow-thruster batteries will be retained, the new LiFePO4 service bank cannot be charged directly by neither the AC/DC charger nor the alternator. Therefore, I plan to use an Orion XS to charge the LiFePO4 service bank from the starter battery.
Does my plan make sense? Does anyone see any problems with that?
I think that charging the LiFePO4 only by the Orion XS is the best solution, the input power to the Orion can come from shore power or the alternator. Neither the shore power charger nor the alternator can be configured to correctly charge lithium batteries, and even if they could, they still need to charge the other 2 lead-acid batteries (starter & bow thruster). In any case, not using 1 of the 3 outputs of the battery isolator and the AC/DC charger does not limit overall charging current as their max total current capacity is still available through the 2 used outputs.
I have a few questions to confirm my plan is the right one:
Would it make sense to use the 3rd battery isolator output as the input for the Orion XS? This way there will be no battery directly connected to the input of the Orion XS, though I could leave one of the old lead-acid batteries in for filtering / capacitance. I think I will lose the option of emergency charging the starter battery from the service bank also though.
Is there any problem with the shore power charging the LiFePO4 bank through the starter battery? I know I will have to configure the Orion shutdown voltage to ensure it will detect a running “alternator” when the starter battery is sufficiently charged. I think if I configure the Orion XS to draw more current than what the AC/DC charger provides it could end up turning on and off as the starter batter voltage will drop while the Orion is charging, then it will rise again when it detects a “shutdown”.
I’ve seen references of an “updated” Orion XS 12-12/50 model with improved EMI/EMC to avoid interference with VHF radios. Anyone know if the Orion XS 1400 has got the same treatment or has used it successfully alongside a VHF radio?
No. you are best leaving the 3rd battery isolator output alone, and use the orion from the starter battery - this allows you to charge the house bank from the engine. Having said that, IF the max voltage for the LiFePO4 battery is compatible with ALL of the existing charging sources, i.e. no charging source goes as high as the max lithium battery voltage, then direct charging is possible.
No issues with charging from AC via the starter battery. The charging current for the house battery will not flow into the Starter battery, but direct to the orion. You need to make sure that all ac charger outputs can carry the full charger current. If not then tie the third output also to the starter battery.
This is mainly a firmware upgrade, so can be done to an older orion.
The Orion has a current ramp according to the input voltage. Once the charge has started, it will then modulate the charge current at Vshutdown, in the operation sequence thats between point 2 and 3. Means, if the AC charger can output 20A for example, the Orion will match that just by trying to stay at Vshutdown, even if its charge current is left at 50A
I have a similar situation on my old sailboat. I am in the process of replacing my old lead acid main house bank with Lithium. I have included a Lynx distributor, a 2000w Multiplus Inverter/Charger, an MPPT solar controller and an Orion XS 12/12 50amp DC to DC charger. The DC to DC charger is currently connected to my AGM Engine starter battery. I have a separate lead acid bank which supplies the anchor windlass, a waste macerator and a small water pump. I recently saw a video which showed a setting under the battery output option which is normally set to “Alternator charging from Main battery”. The second option however was “Charging another battery from the main battery” Where the main battery is considered to be the new Lithium house bank. The video says the other battery can be a Lead Acid battery. I assume the user has to select the desired option each time. What I do not know is how this should be wired, given the Orion DC to DC charger has only a single output port? If i connected the old Lead acid to a common positive, with the output to the Litium ion, would the program detect the alternate Lead acid battery and direct charge from the new Lithium bank to that option. The Orion Manual does not explain this.
The setting tells the GX which way the Orion is being used. The “Main” battery is the battery the Victron system is connected to. In your case the new lithium. For the Orion XS the important part is the output port, since its a charger, its default function is to charge the main battery.
You as the installer need to decide which way you want to charge. If i understood correctly, you want to charge from the lithium battery to the lead acids? Then the Orions input gets connected to the lithium battery and the output to the lead acid. Then you need to set the charge parameteres accordingly. Last you need to set the above setpoint to “Charges another battery”. This means, in the eyes of the Victron system that this specific Orion will now become a load.
Pretty sure the reason for the Orion manual not explaining this is that its none of the Orions business. The GX needs to know which way power flows, so i assume this setting can be found in the GX manual
Thanks for the explanation Chrigu, that helps. That suggests, given I can only have one wire coming out of the OUT port on the Orion, that i need to run that out cable to a common bus, with one cable to the Lithium house bank and another to the Lead acid ‘Additional Battery’. That however would make a direct connection from the Li house bank to the lead acid battery, which is generally frowned upon as the Li house bank could drain the Lead Acid. Not sure how else to wire it though?
At first you need to clarify which direction you want to charge.
Then from there you wire the input connector of the Orion to the source battery and the output to the sink/receiving battery. You dont connect the two to the same connector.
Arghhh So its not just a matter of going in to the App and selecting whether to use the default, Engine/alternator battery to charge house lithium OR USe the house Lithium to charge an ‘additional’ Lead acid. I have to physically switch the wires around as well? That doesn’t seem very practical. In that case i’ll go back to plan B and wire the Windlass to the Lithium house bank… i just need to create a new bus bar for which i have little room on my system wall.
You usually dont switch them. I mean sure theres people that do change the direction of charge by using a changeover switch, but thats not the norm. You would also have to change all parameters since you would change the battery chemistry. You decide on the direction, install it that way and leave it at that.
For me the usual way is to use the Orion XS as a way to charge the house/aux battery from the engines alternator, so whenever the engine is running. Then using the multiplus trickle charger output to keep the starter battery topped up when theres mains available.
Technically, the Orion XS/1400 hardware can charge both ways, but the software is not there yet.
