question

khaem avatar image
khaem asked

ESS and Input Current Limit Problem

Hello everybody,


We are on a serious problem here :

on Quattro, ESS mode, Input Current Limit is not take seriously in configuration !


For example :

Quattro is fed by a general circuit breaker that can give only 12kW. above it breaks.

Quattro has 20kW of Pylontech battery, and so it can take some energy from batteries.


And ...

when the charge (output 1 of quattro) go above 12kW, instead of taking from batteries, it use grid input ... and of course ... breaks the breaker !


The only solution to respect this "Input Current Limiter" is to select "keep battery charged", what is an aberation, because I don't want to keep battery charged !


As in a smart system, and ESS is a smart system, Quattro need to know when use battery, and when use Grid.


I can help you developpers, to improve those functions, because I made a lot of tests...


I remain at your disposal.


Best regards,

Emmanuel




ESS
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7 Answers
Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) avatar image
Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) answered ·

Hi @khaem

What state is the system in when this happens?
(Inverter state, ESS state, SOC, ESS settings?)

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khaem avatar image khaem commented ·

Hi @Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff),


System state :

- Quattro Inverter state : inverting in the limit of ESS settings (2kw)

- ESS State : Passthru

- SOC : 63 %

- ESS Setting : Mode Optimised with battery life, soc mini 40%, actual soc mini 60%, batterylife state selfconsommation


But the most important details are there :

- Quattro Input current limiter is set to 41Amps

- The current entering in Quattra was 60 Amps !!!

So no grid-assist or power-assist, but in my opinion, the input current limiter is a important notion that quattro has to respect, while it has Batt and not overloading...


Best regards,

Emmanuel

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Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) avatar image Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ khaem commented ·

Hi @khaem, Emmanuel,

When in Passthru, the system cannot power assist, the system goes into passthru when the battery discharge level is reached.

Maybe you can set a lower SOC and a higher grid setpoint, to keep the battery more charged?


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khaem avatar image khaem Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ commented ·

The mode passthru here is an error !


Quattro doesn't have to enter in Passthru mode while it has batt ...

When you have limited input current, it's for something isn't it ? else is less important ...

lower SOC or higher grid point change nothing for this problem.


The problem is the programmation of ESS in Quattro, what's the priority ? Input Current Limit or Battery Life and ESS inverter power limit ?

in my point of view, (and for a lot of friends in the work), the priority was the Input current limiter.


Please, please consider to reprogram quattro priority.


Thanks ;)


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Paul B avatar image Paul B khaem commented ·

One thing that could be also causing it is What have you set your sustain voltage to as this would also bypass the current limit as well. (I think)

Danial is saying that passthrough comes on when the ESS thinks there is no more power in the batteries, thus it cant or should not drain the batteries any more, so are the batteries more IMPORTANT than the incoming power limit break ????, to me I would think so. as replacing a set of Lithium batteries because the voltage went to low would be a large cost.

so in your case could you please explain when does the pass through come on that is wrong.

Maybe a detailed explination of all your setup including screen shots of the assistant setups, so we can see how its occurring

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khaem avatar image khaem Paul B commented ·

Maybe, I don't explain very well the problem :


The problem is not something else ESS limitation :

make the test yourself I had already tried it :

- You are in ESS with a 8kva Quattro

- Battery is at 95% (20Kw Li-ion Batt Pack)

- ESS has not flag activated (no problem or limitation)

- you have set ESS inverter max power to 1kw

- You have set Max Input power to 5kW

- You have to power 10Kw on Out1


What do you think that Quattro would do ?

For me (and another time, for others) : Quattro woud invert 5kw to complete the required output power.

The ESS Inverter limit need to be only for "normal" time : if it is in normal application it can invert 1kw to use battery...


Try the test : Your breaker will break input because the Quattro don't limit it's input, while it has 95% battery available and all setup is correct ...


I repeat myself, but it's a priority programmation reason...


have a nice day !

best regards,

Emmanuel



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khaem avatar image
khaem answered ·

Re @Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff)


The mode passthru here is an error !


Quattro doesn't have to enter in Passthru mode while it has batt ...

When you have limited input current, it's for something isn't it ? else is less important ...

lower SOC or higher grid point change nothing for this problem.


The problem is the programmation of ESS in Quattro, what's the priority ? Input Current Limit or Battery Life and ESS inverter power limit ?

in my point of view, (and for a lot of friends in the work), the priority was the Input current limiter.


Please, please consider to reprogram quattro priority.


Thanks ;)


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khaem avatar image
khaem answered ·

Hello guys,

nobody are interested to solve the problem ?

have a nice day !

regards,

Emmanuel

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Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) avatar image Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ commented ·

Hi @khaem

for now the only way is to use external control, or not use ESS.

ESS currently doesn't support peak-shaving.

the minimum SOC level is used to keep the remaining capacity reserved for backup purpose (when grid fails).

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khaem avatar image khaem Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ commented ·

Hi @Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff)

Thank you for your answer !


So ESS doesn't use the Quattro Input Limit Function...


I will try to do that with external control and domotic but the reactivity is not the same.

And What i will do externaly, is possible to code internaly.


Just keep in mind that I volunteer to beta-test a function like this, if you need ;-)


Have a nice day.


Best regards,

Emmanuel


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Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) avatar image Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ khaem commented ·

Hi Emmanuel,

it -does- use AC input limit, both for feed-in as input, but when in passthru mode it cannot do this.

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khaem avatar image khaem Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ commented ·

In ESS "normal operation" mode it doesn't. I tried it : BATT at 90% no flags, it doesn't.


What I am saying is that Quattro can give customer better service, no matter what's the name of the problem passthru mode or something else, and how we can solve it, internaly in Quattra or External control, but there is a problem ;)


And, I can add that we have spoken with Thierry and Emmanuel in France, and they tried and they noticed the problem too.


At your disposal if necessary.

best regards,

Emmanuel

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bulraydin avatar image bulraydin khaem commented ·
Hi Emmanuel, this is a very serious problem. I recently convinced the customer , that we could do peak shaving. We have installed 3x Quattro 15000 with 78kWh batteries and 28kW of PV

We have to limit the input current of each Quattro at 30A , as the grid is very weak there, however internally the customer needs up to 60A. The customer has electrical charger of 22kW and pool etc...

We were hoping that whenever the loads get higher than 30A in ESS mode it takes the rest from batteries .


And of course we don't want to keep batteries charged all the time, they must use PV and also we will do scheduled charging with cheap night electricity.

any solution to this ?

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Petr P avatar image Petr P bulraydin commented ·

Same question here, is there any workaround?

As that is exacly what documentation says:

8. Activates Power Assist function. - Use PowerAssist to prevent an external AC input circuit breaker to trip due to excessive load. If the load exceeds the AC input current limit the Multi will start inverting in parallel with the external AC supply and will provide the extra current needed.

Also you are setting ess minimum soc till grid fails, it could be same also for boost operating. Is there a way to set it like that?

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chuff avatar image
chuff answered ·

Hi, exactly same problem today here...

44Kw battery fully charged, 2 multiplus II 5000 in paralell with a ac input limitted to 32A.

I have needed 11000w at one moment and fuse 32A on input of the multiplus II break down!

ESS mode battery life optimized, it seem to not use battery at all!

Problem!!!

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mito avatar image
mito answered ·

Dear collegues

I found this thread while looking around to solve in July 2024 same issue reported in 2021 by Emanuel.


Can anybody from Victron or community update me if this issue was solved without any need to use external control?

Tks

Mito

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nickdb avatar image nickdb ♦♦ commented ·
This is an old topic.

Passthru, and the reasons it happens have not changed.

Often this is inadvertently triggered by ESS settings.

The system does now support peak shaving, which is documented in the manual.

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diederik avatar image
diederik answered ·

I don't know about a Quattro but I have a MultiPlus-II GX and when charging from grid I always control the current with the "DVCC - Limit charge current" settings.

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hominidae avatar image
hominidae answered ·

This thread is a bit old.

As of today, the system does support Peak shaving in ESS mode.

See: https://www.victronenergy.com/blog/2024/03/19/venus-os-v3-30-peak-shaving-for-ess/

You'll need to upgrade your GX firmware and ESS-Assistant in the Multi/Quattro


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