Orion-Tr Smart DC-DC Charger 30A low output

DIY
, ,
1

I got;
2004 Ducato Motorhome

  • Regular alternator
  • GX Server
  • Orion-Tr Smart 30A DC-DC Charger
  • LiFePo4 225 Ah battery
  • Victron 230 VAC 12V 1+1 30A
  • Victron MPPT solar 30A

Battery is compatible with the Victron setup and connected to the GX via a CAN cable.

When new I had 30 A current.
Today only 22A

I have tried with DVCC and the A limit function
But in this moment its turned off.

My 30A Orion-Tr Smart Charger
do not deliver more than 22-23A to the lithium battery.

I am trying to figure out why I dont get «full flow» (30A)

Any hints and tips?

2

Using the Victron connect app show us your battery charge and engine shutdown settings and a status screen when this is happening for targetted advice.

For broad brush advice 90% or more problems are

  1. Voltage drop due to.poor input wiring.
  2. Voltage drop due to poor output wiring.
  3. The Orion limiting current because it is too hot.
  4. The alternator reducing output voltage because it is running hot.
3

Another one is more solar charging the battery.more in summer, so the Orion charges less.

4

Few minutes ago I did a test; and came to a similar conclusion that alternator is struggeling.

Its a 2004 standard working horse.
What if alternator belt spinning?
A bit squeeky the few first 30-45 seconds

At startup charging at 14,40… and a bit over…
then after a minute or two the voltage dropped to 13,85
at the start batteri and at the Orion input.

I did check my cables 16mm2 / 3 meters with a thermo camera. No hotspots.

5

Got 400 watts up there on the roof.
On a very good sunny day thats typical 15 Amp input to the battery. At max. If lucky. Living in Norway :face_with_hand_over_mouth:

I guess my squeeky alternator belt at startup could be a indicator for whats next. :+1:

6

Tje Orion should be able to work at 13.85V at the input as long as the shutdown voltage is set lower. The Orion reduces current if the input voltage falls to the shutdown voltage to stop the input voltage falling lower.

7

Will try to get a thermo photo of alternator.

Will also try to tighten the belt.

I will do more tests tomorrow;

TNX for hints and tips :+1:

8

I am still at the same spot;
My Orion charging at 20-25 A’s only

Wonder if the battery internal BMS doing this?

The battery got a CAN port connection at the Cerbo GX
The MPPT got a VE Direct port at the Cerbo GX
The MPPT detect the BMS and display
«BMS controlled Yes»
If I turn this of; it will turn on again without my help

The MPPT is a 30A, but restricted at 20A
But even if I disable the MPPT, the Orion will not charge at full.

My Orion do not have a VE Direct port
But could it be that the BMS refuse the charge.?

Hints & Tips ?

9

The BMS should not be doing this as the Orion is not connected to anything to control it, it only works on input and output voltage. You have confirmed your input is 13.85V at battery and Orion. Use a meter to check the output voltage when charging, the Orion output and the battery should both be close to 14.2V. If you post screenshots of your settings and the status page when charging we can help more.

10

My screenshots and more;

All wires used are 16mm2
Positiv and negativ leads;
2,5+2,5 =5 meters (start bat - Orion-Tr)
2,5+2,5 =5 meters (Orion-Tr - LiFePo4)
(Probably a bit less)

At 1500 rpm charging at 22-23A
I had 30A the first few weeks

Should be said that I did tweak the Orion-Tr parameters.
But I did not notice when the 5-7A was missed

Now looks like this when running;

Start battery voltage 13,98 Volt
(at the BMV-712)

Orion-Tr Input voltage 13,7 Volt
Loss in cable about 0,3 Volt loss

Orion-Tr Output voltage 13,7 Volt
Loss in cable 0,3 Volt

LiFePo4 battery intern voltage at 13,40 Volt
Victron Shunt voltage at 13,48 Volt
(similar to battery volt)

I have used my Thermo Camera without any surprices.
Pointing the camera at cables and terminals show temperatures at 25-30°C (outdoor at 17°C) no hot spots.
I can touch all wires without any problems.

Wil post screen shots in a few minutes;

11

IMG_0394
IMG_03941320×2868 190 KB

IMG_0393
IMG_03931320×2868 255 KB

IMG_0387
IMG_03871320×2868 207 KB

IMG_0385
IMG_03851320×2868 197 KB

IMG_0389
IMG_03891320×2868 117 KB

IMG_0390
IMG_03901320×2868 192 KB

12

It is in bulk but not at the full 30A, the output voltage is not limiting and the voltage drops are reasonable.

2 possibilities remain. The unit is overheating and throttling current but you have checked temperatures so unlikely. Or it is limiting current because you have the shutdown voltage set to 13.7V in engine shutdown detection.

13

Should mention that already at cold startup my Orion charging at reduced 20A.

Just now I did a 1 hrs test drive;

The datasheet says operating range -20 - 55°C
Measured again with my thermo camera;
The surface temp at aprox. 50°C
Is this within a reasonable range?

Also operating / running with a D-+
(control signal from alternator.)

14

Shut down detection at 13.0 volt

IMG_0400
IMG_04001320×2868 213 KB

IMG_0399
IMG_03991320×2868 193 KB

15

Engine shutdown detection settings are not causing this. You ate not at input or output voltage limits.

If you download the Victron Toolkit it has a function to predict the temperature derating of chargers. For a 30A charger at 50degC it states 23A.

16

I did ask Chat GTP :face_with_hand_over_mouth:
The temperatur seems to be causing my missing A’s.

Later today I will mount a temp sensor (Victron sense) on the body of the Orion. Nice to keep an eye on the blue box. :chart_increasing:

I will now start building a cooling system.
A fan blowing… some ducts..

I will report back when done.

TNX for your effort pwfarnell :+1:

Still; why does it not start with 30A charge when a cold start in the morning?

17

No idea why it does not go straight to 30A as that is what the manual describes will happen.

18

I will try disconnect all power;
In hope of some kind of reset functionality👍

19

At this time I had to accept that my unit reach a surface temperature around 50°C. As a result the Orion-Tr 30A reduce charge down to 22-23A’s.

When in the future when (and if) I make some kind of duct to produce cooling I will update this post.

Not sure if it is someting more to this;
As we discussed earlier;
Why dont the unit start at 30A’s when cold started?

Might be I replace with another unit I have in my shack.
Just for the …. of it. If the this unit do the same.
Another day.

Thanks for efforts so far.

Cheers