MultiPlus-II shutdown on Low battery with fully charged Seplos LiFePO₄

Peak power and surge power are two totally different things by the way.

So while the battery peak is close to the peak of the inverter, it is not able to provide the surge needed to reack the peak.
So the issue here is not that the battery is tripping its bms on a peak draw (or you would find it in an error state), it is just not able to provide the quick surge to that peak needed for the inverter.

The battery is not able to provide the surge because the resistance is too high either through the bms or cables.or a combination.
Either way the solution is more battery which usually means more cable pathways to load/bus bar. Don’t daisy chain.

I understand the distinction between peak power and surge power, and I agree that internal resistance (battery, BMS, cabling) can limit very fast transients.

However, what I still cannot reconcile with this explanation is the clear difference between the two AC-loss scenarios, especially considering the load levels involved:

  • When I disconnect AC manually via the input breaker, I have tested this repeatedly with active loads of 5–6 kW, and the inverter transitions cleanly every time.

  • When AC is lost centrally (slow / unstable grid collapse), the inverter sometimes shuts down with Low DC Voltage even with only 300–400 W of load.

From the battery’s perspective there is no difference between these two cases:

  • same battery

  • same SOC

  • same DC cabling

  • same inverter

  • same load path

If the issue were insufficient surge capability due to battery/BMS/cable resistance, I would expect it to appear first during the high-load breaker-off tests, not during a low-load scenario triggered only by unstable grid loss.

What changes for the battery in these two cases?
The only variable that clearly changes is how AC disappears and how the inverter internally transitions, not the DC source capability.

That’s why I keep coming back to the AC/DC transition logic inside the inverter rather than a DC surge limitation.

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It is fairly difficult to explain simply. Giving it a shot.

The inverter works harder to follow the sine wave to stay synchronised to the grid downwards in a brown out.

Remember power is volts x amps in its simplest explanation. If volts are lower more amps are pulled. And as a brownout happens the amp draw goes up.

By the time the cut off on the ac input is reached it has depleted the ‘reserve’ in the power pack and the surge now should be taken from the battery so the collapse in the whole system. But the voltage collapses so more amps are drawn which makes the problem worse. If there is not voltage collapse on the dc side it will recover faster maybe with a slight light blink.

What we do for areas where brown out is common is actually increase the low cut off voltage (200v sometimes 205). But then we don’t have hard coded grid codes to follow.

A blackout is a sudden loss and it just carries on with the already existing sine built as it did not have to be processing to match anything.

There is -the difference is the surge needed from the DC to prevent collapse.

One is an endurance problem, one is a shock capability.

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Look up I²R in sustained load vs short load.

The seplos won’t measure the volt drop because it is happening after the pack voltage measurement.

The problem is the resistance is happening after then so bms-lugs-cables-lugs-inverter where the final drop you measured is. And that is where the volt drop is also happening.

Oh yeah. This was suggested to me by the distributor as well, but 205-210V was not enough. Since I have Voltage regulator that produces stable 231V ± 1V, today I have setup very aggressibe low cut-off set to 229 V with restore set to 230V. Two brownouts were successes so far.

Also I have noticed that in case of brownout, voltage drops slowly, as the base frequency! That is all very troublesome for the inverter.

And not all brownouts are created equal! :smiley: The degradation of the signal varies. Some brownouts are slower, some are faster.

@yuras

Are you aware of this thread about DC ripple? They reduce it by big capacitors near to MP2.
Maybe this is a solution in your case…

Good morning,

Seen this topic from top to bottom, our finding is easy.

There is already a significant ripple at low consumption but the cabling size is more than enough.

These batteries have a higher internal resistance then many other brands, creating this ripple.

This cannot be smoothened with the ripple eliminator.

Very easy, your battery is way to small to cope with such high loads.

Our conclusion is; buy 2 times more of the same batteries and the issue is solved.

Regards, Jeroen.

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Okay. After 10 brownouts I can present the results.

When the load is lower than 1000W then the transfer switching is fine. But when it is higher than 1000W, I get the same problem of low voltage on the battery. Basically, 2 brownouts of 10 were over 1000W load and ended up with the substantial drop of voltage on the battery.

Here is the picture of such brownout where Multi has recorded the drop on the battery:

1 - Would you say that this amount of ripple is bad, meaning this battery has rather high internal resistance?

2 - Would adding second battery solve the issue?

Good morning,

Yes, it does as mentioned above.

Regards, Jeroen.

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Thank you all for the responses. I was talking to distributor (victron) about this problem and searched for how inverters handle peak/surge powers. I found this talk useful: Diagnosing inverter overload. And the corresponding picture:

For the 6k5 model, the nominal power is 6000-6500 W depending what you take as nominal.

Potentially that model can draw up to 12000-13000 W in peaks/surges for 0.5 seconds. This is the phycial nature of inverter and there is no way around it. No kind of firmware flashing or setting the cut-offs will help if the current is too much for the battery. That power is 250-270 Amps on the 48V battery. In my case battery has 250A auto fuse and 400A slow fuse. Fuses are not tripped, meaning that current is around 250A, maybe slightly higher (it happens very fast, so fuse could miss it easily). My battery can reliable handle 150A and peaks of 200A. I have shortage of 50-70 Amps. :frowning:

Oh yeah and do not forget situation when the battery will be almost depleted having kind of low voltage, that forces to have even more spare battery power. That is why there is extended demand on the amount of batteries installed in off-grid systems.

I have ordered 2nd battery and will report how that helped to mitigate brownouts under the load.

@YuriyK for your model (10000VA), batteries should be able to deliver 20000VA or even slightly more at “fast” peaks according to the logic above.

Thanks for the detailed explanation - the surge vs nominal power math itself makes sense, and I agree that an inverter of this class is physically capable of drawing very high short-term current.

What still concerns me, however, is when and why this surge is actually demanded.

In my case:

I can repeatedly disconnect AC manually via the breaker with 5-6 kW of active load, and the inverter transitions cleanly every time.

The shutdown only happens during a slow / unstable grid collapse, and sometimes even with very small loads (300-400 W).

If the inverter genuinely needs a 2×-3× surge from the battery just to transition to inverter mode, then logically this surge should be required every time AC is lost, regardless of how it is lost. But that is not what is observed.

This suggests that the surge demand is not an inherent requirement of inverter takeover itself, but is instead tied to a specific internal operating mode during brownout conditions, where the inverter is still trying to stabilize AC rather than committing immediately to inverter mode.

From a system design perspective, this puts me in a real dilemma.

I do not consider it reasonable to increase battery capacity simply to achieve two days of continuous autonomy, given my average consumption. At the same time, I cannot downsize the inverter significantly, because I need to occasionally run high-inrush or high-power appliances (for example induction cooking, washing machine, etc.), even if only for short periods.

What makes this especially confusing is that cheaper Chinese inverters handle this exact scenario without issues, which strongly suggests that this behaviour is more related to control logic / firmware decisions rather than fundamental power electronics limits. I fully understand that these systems are primarily designed for PV-based installations and not as large UPS systems, and that this particular use case may not have been the main design target.

However, if the UPS functionality is advertised and supported, it should also be validated under realistic brownout conditions. Requiring a battery bank capable of delivering 20,000 VA just to support a 300-500 W load during grid collapse feels, at the very least, counterintuitive.

It also raises an open question about battery chemistry stress: if such extreme current spikes are indeed required, even for very short moments, what does that imply for long-term battery health, especially for LiFePO₄ systems that are otherwise considered very robust?

I am genuinely interested in understanding where the practical boundary lies here - architectural limitation, firmware behaviour, or simply a design assumption that does not fully match this usage pattern.

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Another idea, maybe I missed it in reading through the topic but think it wasn’t discussed.

You grid settings are selected to "‘none” and selected to “accept wide input frequency range’‘. Not an expert in Victron, but this reads to me you don’t have any LOM (loss of mains) detection enabled and allow also allow very wide input grids.

My theory: As the burnout happens, the multi tries to follow the grid drawing huge amount of energy from the battery, creating basically the overload situation. While if you just switch away the grid by the main switch, the grid is gone and the multi takes over the load without any issue.

I see 2 hints in the manual why your selection would be incorrect:

image

Would sugges to read also this Loss of Mains explanation, telling more background behind LOM.

Don’t know which country you are and why you would not select any grid code?

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Thanks for the suggestion regarding grid code and LOM.

I have only recently changed the grid code to Europe: EN50549-1:2019, so I’m still in observation mode. However, there have already been two real grid outages since the change, and in both cases the inverter switched to inverter mode correctly, without Low DC Voltage errors.

Previously, this exact scenario (centralized / slow grid collapse) was the one that reliably triggered the issue, so this is an encouraging early result. I’ll continue monitoring and will update the thread once there is more data.

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Yuriy, this great news! I am eager to try this out while waiting for the additional battery. Did you use ESS assistant in addition to the grid code? Was there load from consumers during outages higher than 1kW?

No, I am not using ESS. This setup is used purely as a large UPS, without PV.

So far there have been two real grid outages after switching to EN 50549-1:

  • First one was at night, with about 200-300 W of load.

  • Second one was during the day, around 600-700 W at the moment of transition.

In both cases the inverter switched over cleanly, without any Low DC Voltage events.

I am confident it should also handle higher loads, because I previously tested ~5 kW of active load while disconnecting AC manually via the input breaker, and the battery handled that without any issues. That is exactly why I was surprised by the original behaviour - the problem appeared only during centralized grid outages, not during manual disconnection.

I’ll keep observing and will update the thread if anything changes under higher load during real outages.

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Additional observation that may be relevant (MK3-USB interaction):

I’d like to share another observation that may help narrow down the root cause.

After changing the grid code, the behaviour did partially improve. However, from time to time the power still drops. In most of these cases now, the inverter switches off together with the loads, which means this could indeed be a real battery voltage drop rather than purely inverter logic - I’m not ruling that out.

That said, I observed something unexpected while testing with MK3-USB.

Before one of the outages, I connected to the MultiPlus via MK3-USB to observe its behaviour during the transition. Unfortunately, I didn’t manage to capture the exact moment of the outage, but I noticed the following:

  • When the grid went down, the inverter successfully switched to Inverter mode, and everything worked normally.

  • Some time later, when there was no significant load anymore, I unplugged the USB cable (MK3-USB) from my laptop.

  • Immediately after unplugging the USB cable, the inverter reported LOW BATTERY, even though at that moment:

    • the system was already running in inverter mode,

    • there were no large loads,

    • and no transient surge could realistically be present.

I fully understand that the battery may indeed be part of the problem, and I’m not denying that. However, this specific behaviour - where a USB disconnection triggers a LOW BATTERY fault under minimal load - looks more like an algorithmic or software-related interaction than a purely physical battery limitation.

At the very least, it suggests that certain internal states or measurements may be affected by communication or mode changes, even when the electrical conditions are stable.

I’m continuing to collect data and observations, but I wanted to share this in case others have seen similar behaviour or can explain the interaction between MK3-USB state changes and battery protection logic.

It gave me the impression that Cerbo was not fully aware that the inverter was already operating from the battery, and when the “blocking” (communication state) was removed, it started re-evaluating conditions and issued some signal that triggered this behavior.

This raises the question whether it would make sense to temporarily disconnect Cerbo entirely for testing, to rule out any interaction effects.

I hope someone from the Victron engineering team notices this post. I’m genuinely trying to identify and isolate potential issues in the product, but to be honest, with every new finding it becomes more difficult to justify the amount of time required to do this kind of troubleshooting as an end user.

@lampy25 you were spot on the fixing the issue. Thank you! I have set the grid code to Europe (Ukraine grid supports that standard) and it totally solved the issue of power going out during switching when brownouts happens. No more alarms.

Stats:

10 brownouts under load < 600 W – OK

2 brownouts under load 1600 W and 2200 W - OK

Woohooo! :kangaroo: :grin:

I feel foolish not paying attention to the LOM mentioned in the grid code documentation before. I never thought that it was that important.

The only thing I notice is that under the load, the lights in the house blink a little bit. I guess voltage drops a little, but logs show only the drop in the power:

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Nice, good to hear! Happy I could help :+1:

I notice here also a little blink in the lights when switching off the grid with the mains switch. The inverter is parallel to the grid, so guess it’s the small switching time required that you see. If my memory is correct it’s also stated somewhere how long the switching time is and it’s typically fast enough to keep electronic devices like computers running. At my house also the UPS for NAS is very short discoupling the grid, though direct connecting again. Also when synchronising back to the grid the LED lights which are dimmed are blinking a bit.

Think you logging shown on the screen isn’t fast enough to detect the dip in voltage.

And missing one of the settings isn’t strange, there are so so many settings :sweat_smile:

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Is this really related to each other? Is the issue repeatable?

I’m experiencing similar issues (including the MK3-USB disconnection glitch), but with a larger battery setup: MultiPlus-II 48/5000 + 2× Seplos 10 kWh sodium batteries.

During a total load of around 2 kW (≈1 kW from the battery and ≈1 kW from the grid), the MultiPlus-II occasionally switches to “Pass-through”.

My suspicion is that the apparent “fix” when using a stricter European grid code is not addressing the root cause, but simply causes the MultiPlus-II to disconnect from the grid earlier when grid parameters fluctuate. As a result, the inverter no longer has to continuously compensate for grid voltage/frequency deviations, which may reduce rapid DC current fluctuations on the battery side.

Back to the root cause:
Could a communication cable (CAN-bus) running parallel to the battery DC cables be disturbed by these DC current fluctuations?

I haven’t tested this yet, but in my installation the CAN-bus cable runs in the same cable tray as the battery cables for approximately 1 meter.

Has anyone observed similar behaviour, or seen CAN-bus communication issues caused by proximity to high-current DC cabling in a MultiPlus-II / Seplos setup?