The proposal received for a large residential building is 2 x 50kw Deye and 2 x Deye-HV-BOS-G 61.4kw Battery stacks. We can accommodate 117 panels 87 x 460W AE) + 30 x 625W Astro panels. My Design suggests 6 x Multiplus 20kw (two per phase) would work fine but I end up with almost 17 MPPT’s which is just a crazy amount of DC wiring and an entire wall for mounting. Is there a Victron answer to allow for fewer strings at high voltage?
We all know perfectly well that, until quite recently, Victron didn’t have any HV products. This product range is still in its early stages, and some products have already been announced. The real question is: what exactly are you trying to say with your post, knowing full well that there are currently no high-load solutions available in the HV segment? Is this just an exercise in kicking something while it’s down? In my view, that’s of absolutely no interest to anyone.
Deal with today’s challenges using what’s actually available on the market at the moment.
Your post comes across as trolling and pointless stirring.
Either use AC PV string inverters like Fronius, SMA, SolarEdge or others. Or use microinverters like Enphase, hoymiles or others.
If connected to ACout you have to repsect the factor 1 rule, and the AC coupled inverters need to be able to follow a frequency-power-derate curve.
This concerns hybrid inverters and their proprietary battery management system.
Grid-tied inverters such as Fronius, GE and similar are not of interest as part of a single integrated system configuration.
Huh? Its fine if you personally dont want to use AC coupled PV inverters in your systems, but using them in conjunction with a Victron ESS and DC MPPTs is a valid option and has been done many times.
If its a viable option for the situation of course has to be determined by whoever builds it.
Theres nothing in the initial threads question that stands out as trolling or stirring to me, but you’re getting into that realm.
What is technically possible, and what some people actually implement, is by no means a guarantee of stability, reliability or efficiency. What you and I would like to achieve are simply aspirations, whereas reality is quite different — and we’ve already covered that here.
Once you’re commissioning 1.5–2 MW of commercial installations per year, with heavily loaded systems rated from 100 kW and above, you’ll understand exactly what I’m talking about.
Been there done that, although with emergency gensets, in the range of 20kVA to 3MVA.
Part of the reason i left that industry. Modern genset controllers offer you so many nice capabilities, but no, most of the time the clients just wants some dumb transfer switch. Because it has been done like this ever since. And then complains why the particulate filter gets clogged or the engine pumps oil into the exhaust.
But back to topic.
.
Short answer and pardon the pun, you are barking at the wrong tree…
Go with Deye proposal.
Victron doesn’t have yet such products for such projects, not that the users won’t love to have that and have it now…
But Victron is somehow late and the first real competitor product on domestic (D)ESS All-In-One devices is Multi RS.
But it’s low voltage and low power with no clear horizon on scalability/parallelization for greater power…
Come back in a few years and maybe, just maybe…
They are probing the waters now for high voltage and still no scalability for greater power on high voltage.
Combine Fronius with Victron like already mentioned upstairs.
Which mode of the system will be used?? Mostly AC at the day?? Black start capability mandatory??
No one in their right mind would ever do that for high-load HV-based systems.
When there are all-in-one solutions readily available on the market, it simply isn’t commercially viable to build multi-vendor systems. No contractor is going to risk their reputation by proposing something like that to a client, because they’ll just think you’ve lost the plot and hire someone else instead.
Victron and Fronius are working together already a long time to combine some products.
Also some HV Fronius inverter can directly be controlled by a Victron system over LAN and the suitable programming. you do not need a cloud connection for setup or operation!
You can’t hear me. You probably don’t understand what I’m trying to explain to you.
UPD: Three words All in One
You mean that Victron should manufacture everything required for an ESS system in house.. and that is really not necessary.
Why choose Victron lifepo4 battery (or something else) when there is a much better and cheaper alternative? I see several larger Victron Installers assembling batteries in house, even high voltage batteries, and there is nothing wrong with that.
An All in one product should rather mean like a 3 phase RS6000 concept with build in cerbo, DC bar for the battery, build in space for a shunt, fuses, switches… everything in one slim tall cabinet, which would sell very well here in the Netherlands with its many small houses.
This would also significantly reduce installation time, and thus the total purchase price (including third party battery)
WTF ???
I have installed 12 Victron systems up to 8kw to date and thus genuinely want to know if there is an Expert work-around or maybe a way of stepping down the voltage so that I can stay with Victron even if it is about 30% more expensive - for what would be otherwise seem to be a high voltage installation.
I am thus confused by your inappropriate response -
Are you saying “No” or saying that you are not an electrical engineer and thus “Don’t know” ?
Very nice and neat!
As the power increases, you need high voltage systems because the efficiency is better.
With HV batteries, you don’t need to go through HV/48 and 48/HV conversion.
You can generate AC directly from HV DC bus where are connected both HV DC PV array(s) and batteries.
Also heat is more manageable because of high efficiency.
All these are obtainable in HV All-In-One systems.
All-In-One, because you don’t want to expose the wanabee Joe to the HV DC bus and have him play with that…
Victron played the low voltage modular card for too long - which is not bad for RV and boats - and now they are behind.
HV All In One inverters all have crazy high idle consumption, always > 100w for 6kw inverters, for bigger inverters its even more. Right now it is garbage for off grid. Maybe in the futur they will make some efforts to reduce the idle consumption, but I have strong doubts.
Unfortunately, with the exception of Victron and Studer Innotec, no manufacturer seems to think that the idle consumption is important
why don´t you use micro inverters like Hoymiles HMS-1500 directly on the roof?
I don´z know the planned setup, but maybe think about that?
Maybe there is an easily reachable position for them?
yes, 117 Panels will be 30 Inverters, but everything is AC 230V, much more easy to handle
30 Inverters will cost about 5000€ - additional about 2000€ für the cables
That is just your Opinion. Me as a customer would prefer a solution, where the installer could nicely explain and justify a vendor mixing.
Because it mostly comes down to something like “we’ve choosen who’s best at that dedicated job, not just selling you 1 brand, cause there we have best conditions and only recommend that to maximize our profit”.