Trying to find out what devices are damaged after reverse polarity on RS 450

Hello everyone,

yesterday we were trying to power up our Victron system for the first time (Victron device switches still in 0 position). It consits of 3 Multiplus II 48/8000, a MPPT RS 450/200, a MPPT 150/35, a Cerbo GX and 8 Pytes E-Boxes connected in parallalel in groups of 2.

So as the title suggests, as we later found out after things went really bad, we had a reverse polarity on the RS 450 (3 people controlled it several times, including a professional electrician…. I have no idea how this could have been overseen :frowning: )

In detail, after switching on the batteries and pressing the switchbutton, they did their startup cycle. One battery after another tried to switch their relays on, going into alarm state. After a few batteries tried to switch the relay, the result of that situation were arcs in the batteries and one of them starting to smoke.

After inspecting the circuit boards later, we found out, that the arcs were coming from the Mosfets. One circuit board completly burned down from there. I haven’t inspected all of the 7 other batteries yet, but one has a cracked Mosfet and some visible black traces of the arc and 2 more just have very little colorchanges on single SMD parts.

So I am trying to figure out what devices and parts are damaged after that incident and what needs to be replaced. For sure at least the boards in the Pytes where the Mosfets are sitting are garbage. So those have to be replaced for sure. But the main two question regarding the batteries are:

  1. Do the BMS boards have to be replaced as well? Maybe they have some sort of “hidden” damages which can’t be recognized easily?
  2. Could the cells itself have taken damage aswell? There are no visible damages anywhere near the cellblocks, not even on the one that started burning inside. I want to be 100% sure if they are ok before using them inside of the house of course.

Furthermore I need to find out if any of the Victron devices has taken damage aswell, especially the RS450 which was the cause of the problem with it’s reverse polarity. How can i best find out? During the situation, there where no visible or audible effects coming from any Victron device and there is no optical damage inside.

I am very well aware that this is actually an unforgiving mistake. I don’t even care about the money, I am mostly disappointed of myself, as I spent months planning and implementing the system and I am absolutely no beginner in electronics. I did the whole electrical installation of the house with KNX and so on and had an professional electrician on site, inspecting everything before powering it up.

And in the end, if fails with such a mistake…. Not even one due to missing knowledge or something like that but plain stupidity.

I am also very well aware that it still was luck, that this just ended with some smoke and damaged parts. This is why I take the situation very seriously and want to make sure, everything is working 100% before even touching any battery again.

Thanks in advance for any help!

Kind regards,

Christian

WOW!

It’s difficult to give you the right advice from a distance:

For safety reasons, I would replace ALL components that:

Have been subjected to incorrect polarity,

have been exposed to excessive currents or temperatures (cables, busbars, etc.)

For the batteries, I would ask the manufacturer how to deal with them, and if necessary, replace them completely, as sad as that is.

Didn’t you have any fuses in front of the MPPT RS and the batteries that would have prevented the high currents?

And I always assumed that the BMS would disconnect before any damage occurred…

Thank you for your answer! I do have fuses in place on the Victron Distributors. For the battery connection cables I use IMAXX Megafuses with 125A (Link), for the MPPT 150 the same in 80A, for the Multiplus II 8000 I use Adler EF3 300A fuses (Link) and for the RS450 the same in 250A. The Adler fuses have 50kA breaking capacity.

Yes, I also thought that something should have prevented the worst, be it some fuse oder the BMS…

I didn’t notice excessive temperature anywhere else than on the smoking battery btw.

Some impressions of the aftermath ….

:weary_face:

I’m curious to hear what @M_Lange has to say about this.

Is one of the fuses defective?

You have 4x 125A = 500A fuses for the batteries, and 250A for the MPPT RS on the other side

Some of the SMDs ( FXXX) appear to be fuses.

What problem do you see with the 500A vs. 250A ?

From my own installed fuses, none seems defective, at least visibily. However, I haven’t measured them yet.

Yes, the circuit has many fuses on it (on top aswell as on the bottom) but none of them seems damaged. The arcs where clearly coming from the Mosfets, according to the black traces and broken Mosfetcasings.

I’m just amazed and doing the math…

In theory, each pair of batteries should have blown the 125A fuse (2x 102A = 204A).

In theory, 4 pairs of batteries should have blown the 250A fuse of the MPPT RS (4x 125A = 500A or 816A).

During the startup process of multiple connected Pytes batteries, they switch their relays on one after another with some delay. That’s why I think that there was always just one battery switched on at a time for a very short moment, as the BMS probably recognized some problem and immediately switched back off.

That would explain why none of the fuses blew.

Eish. What a kick in the shins.

I do have some comments though.
Unless you tried to do the precharge of the inverters with the RS450 (so solar switched on and producing) it would not have been the cause of the faliure.

Not likely.
The only one potentially would be the soot covered one if the temperature in the battery increased to over 60°C for long enough to heat the cells

I offer a different explanation and that is the batteries were not able to bandle the precharge. And possibly there was actually a faulty bms.

There is no PV power connected yet (The PV modules aren’t even installed on the roof yet, as snow got in our way :laughing:) and the RS450 was still switched off. It really was just the first power up for programming the MP II and having access to the Cerbo. Furthermore, i planned to recharge the batteries via AC IN a bit, so that they wouldn’t sit around uncharged for too long. But obviously I didn’t even get to that point.

Are you sure that reverse polarity on the RS450 (switched off) couldn’t be the cause of that situation?

Well that would be reliefing and somewhat spooky at the same time :sweat_smile: My first thought was a short circuit in a battery but then i found the wrong polarity… My reseller (Panda-Solar) told me, that they didn’t have any short circuits whatsoever in thousands of sold Pytes batteries…
So your theory is, that a faulty BMS led to very high currents due to the precharge, blowing up the Mosfets? But wouldn’t that then happen only for the one faulty BMS/battery and leave the others undamaged?

Some more impressions of the installation:

I would test the batteries one by one, including load-testing. I wouldn’t touch the obviously damaged one. If some are good, I would implement a pre-charge circuit to be on the safe side

I didn’t check all batteries yet, but one has a crack in a Mosfet besides burn marks, another has a bit less burn marks and a third has only a slight color change on top of a SMD resistor. I switched that one on (outside) and plugged the console cable in. Seemed all good to me in BMSQt. Haven’t tried everything in Hyper Terminal yet.
So long story short, I don’t think I should keep using any of the circuit boards that where exposed to arcs. So I at least need new circuits…