Anyone else out there wondering why the Multiplus uses nice, reliable, easy to use screw type terminals on the AC in and out but the Multiplus II uses the funky, difficult to use push in connectors? I just serviced a second multiplus II with melted terminals due to the wires not being fully inserted properly. Yes, this is installer error without question and they will be replacing the units but this would not be an issue if they were screw terminals like the regular multi uses. I for one have struggled many times to get the wires to seat properly. I have come up with a method that works reliably but why should I need to? So sound off. Am I off base? Am I another arrogant American asking Victron to change something to be the way I like it? Seriously, is there something I am missing here?
What size & type of wire? And did the wires have crimp ferrules?
Not really what the post is about. Looking for feedback on the terminals themselves. I have seen failures with 10 AWG solid copper as well as ferruled stranded wire. This last one specifically was solid copper, 10 AWG wire on a MP 2 24/3000/120.
As an arrogant American myself… I’ll disagree.
Yes, the initial installation is more of a PITA to get right, but the absolute 100% crucial part of why this is a better method is that -assuming correct initial installation- you’ll never need to worry about those connections loosening up due to vibration / heat cycling / etc. I cannot count the number of failures I saw in the old-style Multis that were strictly due to owner/installers failing to routinely check their connections, multiple times a year. Obviously that’s still needed on the DC side in these, but the AC side is at least secure and worry-free with these connectors.
Respectfully, I’m not buying it. If they are so “reliable” why not make the whole multiplus line, and all other terminal blocks for that matter, the same then? Furthermore what are all the other inverter manufacturers that use regular screw terminals missing? Or for that matter all manufacturers of just about any other electrical component with terminals of a similar nature? Ever seen a circuit breaker with push connectors?
Er, well, yes… Yes I definitely have. Push-in connectors on AC breakers, switches, outlets, etc have actually been in service for decades, and over the next decade or so, I think we’re going to start seeing a lot more general-use manufacturers switching to them in the name of safety / speed of assembly; Eaton has a whole brochure about this: https://www.eaton.com/content/dam/eaton/products/industrialcontrols-drives-automation-sensors/en-globalprime/eaton-push-in-technology-product-overview-brochure-br034012-en-us.pdf
Ok. That honestly looks pretty legit. Especially the guy with the blue overalls.
I suppose it wouldn’t be as much of an issue if it didn’t take so much effort to get the wires in the terminals effectively. God help you if your installation is in any type of location that is difficult to maneuver in. Not only is it incredibly difficult to insert the wires it is equally difficult to confirm they are fully inserted. Its not ideal for other reasons but I usually install the AC wires with the inverter upright before I mount it. I don’t suppose the Victron engineers have ever had to crawl into a 2 X 3 ft RV pass through compartment to install one.
Just another interesting observation about that brochure. It says “Can be installed by Robots”. All our fears are about to come true.
As a European (Germany) I wonder why the 2x120V MultiPlus is the only one with that spring loaded push-in terminals.
I would like to have them in the other devices too.
Spring loaded push-in terminals are very common here in Europe for many different applications.
They are available for many different wire sizes and current ratings.
Correctly installed they are very reliable and easier/faster to connect/disconnect.
That must be a US variation - The European Multiplus II Does have screw terminals for the AC in and out. However, I do agree that the spring clamps for power wires are not so good - even on the multiplus using these spring clamp terminals for the AUX and other inputs is manky. The plug in / screw terminals used on the MPII are much better.
Yes! Thank you. I don’t mind the smaller gauge push connectors like on the smartshunt or the MP relays. They are easy to connect and disconnect.
not inserting the wire properly into a spring terminal caused a ship to take out a major bridge in the US.
if you use a small flat head screw driver to press in the “button” on the terminal it will release the clamp allowing the wire to easily slip in, if you use a properly sized ferrule (length) you will know when it is fully inserted, then release screw driver and the connector is connected properly.
pushing wire in without releasing the clamp first is not the way to use spring clamps
spring terminal can be superior to screw down when use properly.
They do maintain a positive tension - until they are overheated. They are more immune to vibration and thermal creep that can make a screw terminal come lose. The ones I really like are the lever operated spring clamps that SMA use on their large grid tied inverters.
You don’t have to/shouldn’t use ferrules with spring terminals.
They are designed to be hold flexible wires without ferrules.
Normally a solid wire can be pushed in without opening the terminal.
That’s basically the same thing, just the way how the terminal is opened is different.
The good thing is that you don’t need a tool for that type.
I GENERALLY like the spring type clamps better then screw terminals.
- Better immunity against loosening with heat cycles.
- Way better retention in vibrating environments.
- No fumbling with torque specs.
- I find solid wire (class1) in cage clamps a very bad way of connecting those. You really need the old fashioned screw down clamps for that. Class 2 (US style wiring} works better, because it has a way to compress into the shape of the terminal.
BUT!
- You really need the full specified length of stripped wire inside the terminal.
- The types you have to open with a tool before inserting a wire (Phoenix ST, Wago TOPJOB S) tend to have better connections because you can feel properly if the wire has been inserted fully.
- People using these terminals do need to read the instructions, which no one ever does.
Usually that is the case, but it totally depends on the type of terminal used (see my last bullet point above). The newest type from Phoenix Contact, PUSH-X, need to be opened. But these stay open and close when the inserted wire releases the clamp.
I would say that lever type clamps (WAGO 21xx- series) are my preferred style at this moment. You are “tempted” to open the clamp, and you can feel when the wire is fully inserted. No faffing about with tools at awkward angles inside boxes that are too small.
I am learning a lot here. I am becoming more convinced of the benefits of a quality push in terminal. I love the Wago terminals. I guess the bottom line for me is the push terminals used on the Multiplus are a pain. I don’t care what kind of wire you use (stranded, solid copper, ferrules or no ferrules) they are a pain to work with and leave potential for improper installation. @M_Lange has proven to be a true professional and worthy of respect but the comment:
regarding the Multiplus terminals is just off base. I have rarely been able to simply just “push” the wires in. Perhaps in ideal conditions this is true but most of the time its a fight and often results in one or two of the 3 needing more “pushing” after wards. Often wire insulation is damaged in the process and I start over. I use smooth needle nose pliers wrapped in a layer of electrical tape to prevent this but it still happens. The alternative to push the “release” with screwdriver while inserting seems better but can be very awkward and yield its own problems in the small compartment.
If these terminals were a lever type, like a Wago, that would be, as we say in American, “the bees knees”, or “the cats meow”. These idioms both sound kinda stupid now that I see them typed out but perhaps you all get the point. I would sing Victron’s praises if they went this direction.
To be honest, I never used the terminals installed in the MultiPlus because there is no european model with those terminals.
But with the Wago terminals that I’m use very often you can push in solid wires (it’s still easier to open the terminal first 
).
The datasheet says wires 6 … 16 mm² / 14 … 6 AWG can be pushed in directly.
WHAT?! That seems crazy to me. So all you Europeans who are telling us we should be happy with are push terminals don’t even know what we have to deal with? I would absolutely love terminals like those Wagos. I would happily pay a little more for a superior terminal.
There is currently another thread going right now where a user is experiencing the exact difficulties I have been complaining about. Its worth a look to feel our pain.
We’re telling you this because we deal with these terminals on a daily basis in our professional work. Once you actually learn (yes, really) how to handle them properly, they’re not only faster to work with but also far more durable and require much less maintenance.
Since creating this post I have become convinced of 4 things.
1. Push in terminals have a TON of advantages over screw terminals.(this one I changed my mind on)
2. The push in terminals on the AC in and out on North American Multiplus II models suck.(This one I became more convinced of)
3. I would happily welcome(and be willing to pay more for) a Multiplus with better push connectors.
4. On every subject discussed online there is someone unwilling to see things from another perspective who likes to throw around how superior their skills and experience are.
I truly appreciate all the input on this thread. I have learned a ton. I mean that sincerely without any cynicism.
@TherealKT I didn’t mean to offend you, and if I did, I apologize. I do want to make one thing clear, though: I’m an electrician with over 25 years of experience in the field. I’m happy to talk about all the pros and cons of different types of connections, but this might not be the place for that.
To be completely honest, I personally think the best connection terminals in the MultiPlus family are on the first-generation devices — the original MultiPlus. There, all the connections are just a screw with a crimped ring terminal, and that’s it.
The European versions of the MultiPlus II with lower power ratings use screw terminals. Only the higher-power models, from 8000 VA and up, have connections like the original MultiPlus. Each solution has its cons. The terminals on the first MultiPlus need the ring terminal to be properly crimped. Spring terminals need to be handled correctly, and screw terminals require periodic re-tightening.
If you’re a professional, you’ll manage just fine with any type of connection. If you’re an amateur, in my experience, spring terminals tend to work better.