If I remember correctly than we had a 120V MP-II in our workshop somewhere, but I’m not sure if it was a model with the spring terminals.
I will have a look at it when I’m back in the office after the holidays.
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Not offended. Just tired of people who jump into posts with their “matter of fact”, “hire a professional”, “your obviously not doing it right” answers and make no attempt to help solve problems or help educate someone looking for answers. This is how you are coming across. Its not helpful.
Sorry to say this, but there really isn’t another option. You don’t seriously expect the manufacturer to change a product on the market based on a few forum posts, do you? The only thing we can do is try to help you solve the problem in a way that’s actually available to you — either by explaining how to make these connections properly, or… unfortunately, by suggesting you hire a professional.
Actually I do expect Victron to hear what the users of their products are saying. Like I said before . . . not helpful.
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You didn’t start off looking for help solving a problem.
That’s not helpful either.
If you want to be heard, the proper way is to contact your sales representative and pass the issue on to them with the request to escalate it further. Complaining on a forum won’t get you anywhere.
So tell me then—what kind of help are you actually expecting from us? I do realize that sometimes products don’t meet all of our expectations, but that’s just how life is. The best thing you can do is learn how to work around those limitations.
If you don’t have enough space for servicing and proper cable routing, leave longer cables at that location and remove the entire unit instead. I’ve already had a few installations where the multi unit was mounted on a kind of sliding drawer—normally hidden and inaccessible, but pulled out for service, which made it possible to work on it. You just need to ensure proper ventilation.
Another option is to use external connectors. Are you familiar with Safiery products? They equip the Multi enclosure with industrial quick connectors, which makes it possible to remove the unit quickly and easily in case of failure.
There are plenty of solutions—you just need to be willing to use them. Around here we say that you should always think about the next guy who will be working on your system, because it might turn out that the next guy will be you.
I’ll chime in here since I was the OP on the post referenced here about issues getting 10 AWG wire in. I wish I had seen this thread before because if I had any idea how difficult these terminals are to use I would have run a pigtail out and done the connection in a separate box. My installation is in a difficult place, under a settee with limited access and this was a marine installation, so fine gauge wires are already installed. There is no way to install 10 AWG fine gauge marine wire without using a tool to open up the contact, and ideally a ferrule should be used to keep the strands together. Victron did not specify how to handle fine strand wires and does not comment on the use of ferrules. This is interesting since I was also installing the Orion XS and there are very clear instructions on handling wire and ferrules. Why did they go silent on this in the Multiplus manual? After digging around and watching YouTube videos it was a bit more clear how to do it, but even then, once installed, one of the lines does not pass the pull test, so now I have a unit which needs to be repaired or replaced.
As I mentioned in my other thread, I’m an engineer with 40 years of experience designing medical and laboratory instruments, including development of many chassis which utilize various wire terminals. I often specify spring contact terminals, but these are for small-gauge communications cables, we use screw terminals for larger gauge power wires. These are a bad choice IMO.
I am very aware that there are technicians on this site with vastly more knowledge and experience than me. However, I have personally, with my own hands installed RV inverters in the hundreds at this point, dozens of Multiplus models and many other brands. Also service and repair of RV solar and electrical systems is about 25% of my business. So I deal with a lot of other technician’s installations as well. I feel I have pretty good “boots on the ground” experience to refer to.
Having said that the push in terminals, SPECIFICALLY on the North American Multiplus II are a very poor choice, and liability for multiple reasons I and others have already mentioned. One nail in the coffin though is their poor serviceability. They may be great initially(if you successfully get them connected) but the good Lord help you if you have to remove and replace them a few times. As a service and repair technician I always dread dealing with these terminals. If they have been mistreated at all I may end up breaking them. If they got too hot ever the plastic gets brittle and pushing in the screw driver breaks them. I don’t think they are designed to be opened and closed much.
I recently repaired my old hot tub. I had to replace a relay board. Coincidentally it has very similar push in style terminals. They are old and brittle and got hot due to a short and pushing in the screw driver to release the wires broke the plastic of the terminal making them unusable. Fortunately I was putting in a new board. I noticed after the fact relay boards with lever style terminals are available. This seams to be the winner in my mind. The best of both worlds. A push in terminal with levers that is easy to remove and replace the wires on.
I had an issue with it myself until I did the research and watched the installation videos. One of them was current connected and I believed the other was Victron. If I remember correctly, one said use the screwdriver to release and the other said not when installing. So, I called CC and they said use the screwdriver when installing. I ordered the correct length ferrule and the larger crimper for the ferrules, and all went well. But I don’t feel comfortable with it.
This video is helpful https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpXxVSlMSnQ
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An interesting thing I found when watching youtube videos about these connections is the variety of methods that seem to conflict. “Always use ferrules”, “Never use ferrules” “Only use stranded”, “Only use solid wire” “Always open the terminal with a screwdriver” “Only push the wire in”. Of 6 videos I watched all have some different approach. One consistent theme was, these are difficult and people have problems with them. So be careful.
I think it’s a bad sign that installers are searching through YouTube videos trying to figure out how to deal with these connectors. That is a daming endorsement of the design IMO.
Our approach is as follows: we treat these connectors as terminals primarily intended for solid conductors. When connecting a wire, we do not open the terminal — we simply insert the conductor directly.
If there is a need to use a stranded wire, a crimped ferrule is mandatory. Even then, ferrules can only be used if the connector itself provides sufficient cross-section margin.
For example, if I have a 2.5 mm² connector, I can connect a 1.5 mm² wire with a ferrule, or a 2.5 mm² solid conductor. Using this approach, I have never had any issues handling these connectors.
In my opinion, 99% of failures are caused by user / installer error, not by the connector itself.
It’s worth keeping in mind that these are not quick connect / disconnect terminals and should not be treated as such. You’re bringing up WAGO connectors as examples, but those are specifically designed to be opened repeatedly and to allow frequent connection and disconnection of conductors.
Typical spring-clamp terminals are not designed for that kind of use.
Victron puts a sticker right below the terminal that specifies the length of ferrule to be used with the connector. Wiring Unlimited used to say “highly recommends” and now says “recommends” Ferrules for all connections.
Like I have noticed. Lots of differing opinions on this. I watched a video of a very smart tech, now Victron rep, install these wires and specifically say not to use ferrules. He also used stranded 6 AWG wire, pushed in with pliers and did not release the terminal with a screw driver first. I guess whatever method you get to work effectively is up to you.
Is there a European version of the Multiplus II with screw down AC terminals that will run at 120VAC 60Hz?
If so, where can someone from the USA order them?
I’ve worked in the CNC Machining industry for over 45 years with machines using up to 100kVA of 480VAC 3-Phase power and there are exactly zero push-in terminals used anywhere on these machines. Some are from the 1970’s, others are 2020’s. These machines run 24/7/365, shake/vibrate under heavy loads and never have problems with loose screw down terminals.
I would feel much safer with screw down terminals in an RV installation.
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Yes, I noticed the same multiple advice differences. Even from the professionals. It looks like the reason that Victron is using these terminals is because the spring holds constant tension on the wires. That helps keep the wires from loosening up and causing warranty and service calls from resistance burns. On marine and motor home applications it is probably needed more than on land applications where screws might get torqued and checked more often. On motor homes and off-road vehicles there are considerable vibrations from driving over rough roads. I have a land application so of course I prefer the screw connections.
But only the 120V MultiPlus-II have this connectors, all the others have screw terminals.
I think it must be due to some US regulations.
As I now understand it, the reason for the push spring terminals on the MultiPlus 2x120 was due to a design oversight.
The way A/C Output #2 was placed on the board left no access to use normal screw down spring clamp terminals.
This mistake was corrected on the redesigned Quattro II 2x120 which is newer and has proper screw down spring clamp terminals.
I went with the Quattro II 2x120 for my 50 Amp RV due to safety concerns with those Push-to-Connect spring terminals used on the MultiPlus II version.
There are just way too many videos and forum posts showing melted connections and dead inverters with them, and zero posts about that happening to the more RV industry standard screw down spring clamps.
One less thing to worry about.
Interesting. I’m curious where you heard this.