I just received a new Victron Phoenix 1200/12 V inverter (EU version).
The datasheet specifies a zero-load power consumption of 7 W, but when supplying 12 V to the input, I consistently measure around 10 W with no load attached. The fan is off and the unit is at room temperature (~20 °C).
That’s more than 40 % higher than specified, which is very disappointing!
How does Victron officially measure the “zero-load power” figure?
Here are more measurements. As you can see, one gets closer to the 7 watt when feeding it 10 volt. But i guess 12v should be the correct test since thats the nominal voltage.
The ECO mode is not relevant for me, since I need the inverter to be on at all times (though I understand it reduces the standby draw).
However, I find 10 W to be significantly higher than acceptable. In proper deviation terms, that’s (10 / 7 − 1) × 100 ≈ 43 % higher than the advertised 7 W. I had planned my application around this specification quite carefully.
My main question is:
– Is my Phoenix inverter defective, or are all Victron inverters generally drawing this much more than the specified value?
In other words, should we assume the true zero-load power is around 40–45 % higher than what’s listed in the datasheet at nominal voltage? I would like an officially reply from Victron on this.
I used a lab power supply to set the voltage and measure ampere and watt usage. Additionally I Used a multimeter to double check the voltage and amperage.
I never measured it but I also think that the datasheet is too generous and the real world zero-load-power is always a bit higher.
I tell our customers to use 1% off the VA rating as zero-load-power.
1200VA → 12W
You are planning a system with such a small margin that 3W more is an issue?
Did you also use the 91% max. efficiency from the datasheet for your calculations?
I’ve been (slowly) compiling a spreadsheet to track Victron’s published vs real-world numbers. We haven’t sold any 48/10000’s since I’ve started this, but it’s the 10k that inspired me to do it. My experience (not yet measured with a lab power supply) with the 10k is at LEAST 120W each idle draw. I’ve asked Johannes about the published spec’s of the 10k’s several times and the answer is just a version of “you aren’t measuring it right”, which is BS. I’ve asked other technical distributors and they also believe it’s at least 120W.
If anyone has a Quattro 48/10000, please connect its DC input to a calibrated lab power supply and perform three measurements and average them. Send them to me and I’ll add them to my spreadsheet.
You may not think of 136% as a high deviation, but I do. When you have large systems running off-grid, it’s very easy to consume 5kWh per day JUST to run two 48/10kVA inverters. That means adding more solar and battery capacity than using Victron’s published numbers to account for this. Of course, we now realize the published numbers aren’t accurate and account for it. But for those new to Victron it can be quite a surprise.
Totally agree with you, Ed — and thanks for sharing the numbers.
I’m currently using an old Multiplus 12/3000/120, which I believe draws around 28 watts in idle mode (measured only via the BMS). My idea behind switching to a Phoenix 1200/12 was to have an inverter running 24/7 at my cabin, even during winter, so I could keep web cameras and a few other devices powered.
Of course, I could route separate 12 V lines to power them directly, but that would create a lot of wiring mess. Since we get very little sun in winter, my power budget is extremely limited, and a 43% increase in consumption makes a big difference.
So I’m quite disappointed. Do you know how I could get official feedback from Victron on this?
The only official feedback (from Victron staff) I ever saw to such complaints (about the 48/10000 being 100W or so – just like mine…) was that this was not a fault and could not be fixed, there is significant unit-to-unit variation and so some are considerably higher than the data sheet figure…
Anyone who has designed and installed systems around the older units knows they use more power than advertised. Installers who haven’t calculated and sized the system probably don’t notice it. Where possible, we add more solar to make up for it. I can just say this, I have never installed a 10k and noticed its idle consumption was lower than published, so the unit-to-unit variation excuse doesn’t sit well with me. The next time we have 10k’s come into the shop I will measure them all and add them to my spreadsheet. It won’t change anything, but at least tested figures will be out there for future designs.
The problem isn’t so much sizing the system, it’s that 100W is 2.4kWh per day instead of the 60W/1.4kWh in the data sheet. Which doesn’t sound like a big difference, after all it’s only 1kWh per day – but if you have a limit on solar panel area (e.g. on a boat like mine) it can be the difference between solar being able to keep the batteries topped up in winter (when the boat is not being used) and not. DAMHIK…
That’s exactly what I meant. We’re working with a company for which we have spec’s 18 total 10k’s. Nine of them will be in charger only mode, nine in inverter only mode. When I’m doing system sizing, I need to account for all of that wasted energy. This particular system won’t be off-grid so the customer wouldn’t likely notice. We used to spec two 10k’s and an autotransformer for our off-grid cabin or home customers. When off-grid, you absolutely need to design around real idle draw and not published idle draw. I think we’re saying the same thing in just different words.
