Partial shading detection

In the solar section of a Multi RS Solar you have the option: “Partial shading detection”
It says there that must be enable for best performance.
I suppose that 99.9% of the users are just leave the option selected, because who doesn’t want “best performance” ?!

But still, a few questions exist:

  1. What happens when you don’t want partial shading detection?
  2. How is the MPPT algorithm affected by this option? Frequency of scans, full or partial scans, etc?
  3. If you know that you won’t have partial shadows, then by deselecting this option, are things improving somehow? If not, why does this option still exists?

Does anyone have some technical backed answers for this?
Thank you!

I guess you have read this too… (from the manual)

Advanced Maximum Power Point Detection in case of partial shading conditions
If partial shading occurs, two or more maximum power points may be present on the power-voltage curve. Conventional MPPTs tend to lock to a local MPP, which may not be the optimum MPP. The innovative SmartSolar algorithm will always maximize energy harvest by locking to the optimum MPP.

I have been looking at testing this but for me now I will have to wait till the summer and hope I have two consecutive sunny days so I can do a comparison. (some of my panels always have shade)

Yes, I did.
But in a competitive world, saying that the algorithm will lock on to the optimum only if that option is selected, it’s nonsense.
The tracker should ALWAYS lock on to the optimum, partial shadow or not…
This is why I am questioning the existence of such option and this is why I’ve asked for technical details, in case that I am missing something.

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I don’t fully understand all the technical terms… Also interested in this setting as I believe I don’t need it… But I may be wrong.
We have 28 panels on a shallow pitched roof with no possibility of shading (apart from cloud cover). Can I switch the setting off?

No one ?
Over 20 Victron experts on this site and no answers… :slight_smile:

And before jumping and saying something like “Ask the normal support channel”, I did, last week, after waiting here for an answer for a week…
The same, no answer until now… :hourglass:

A week has passed and no help, neither here, nor the support channel…
Victron has asked me to “Rate my experience”…
Well the problem is not solved, so the answer is … wait for another week.
Waiting…
Way to go…

Again Victron asked me to respond to the questionnaire.
Neither here nor the official channel, no answer was provided for a simple, normal and pertinent question.
So, I am asking the community: which answer should be clicked?
So, I am asking Victron: If I click on “I’m not happy” who will get the black ball? The dealer?
Or should I ask these questions through the official channels? :smile:

I’ll have a go at this.
With an optimisation problem such as mppt, there is a graph of the voltage vs current (ie power). On a sunny day, this graph is basically the top and right sides of a square that has been smoothed

  • high voltage with no current (Voc) = no power (bottom right on the blue line)
  • high current with no voltage (Isc) = no power (top left on the blue line)
  • somewhere in the middle, the VxI produces the largest area under the graph, = max power.

The red curve is the power - this is the line the mppt controller tracks, trying to find the maximum point. At this point the derivation of this line (ie the slope) is zero - its flat, and moving left or right causes either no change, or less power. As clouds come over, or temperature changes, you keep adjusting left and right to “see” if you are still at mpp (max power point).

Lets say you start the point on the graph where the arrow from the letter “P” points.
Here the red line is steep, and negative, so you need to reduce the voltage to go ‘backwards’ on the graph because you know the mpp is behind you. You can do this in 0.00001 volt increments, or 0.1v, or 1v, but if you know the graph has only one maximum, why not halve the voltage with each step until the slope goes positive - then you will get there faster.
This is the key to a ‘fast tracking’ mppt controller - it finds the max in X step by

  • being agressive in the steps
  • having a very fast loop of move the voltage → measure the power → make a decision → repeat

If you have a slow loop, or take tiny steps, you will still get to the mpp but it takes longer, and if the mpp moves faster than your steps do, you can be chasing that mpp all day.

Even if your algorithm goes way past the mpp, it will step back half that distance on the next step, so you get to mpp. You can be aggressive, because you know there is only one mpp.
Look up optimisation algorithms - there are literally hundreds

Now on to a graph where there are possibly more maximums.
I couldn’t find one quickly for solar, but here is one with multiple maximums;

In this graph, the black maximum is the one we want, and so in a problem like this you have to make some sacrifices in your algo to avoid landing at the red maximums and staying there.
Two options are;

  • periodically picking a random point on the graph, jumping there, and seeing if the max closest to that point is higher than where you were
  • keep a table of previous graphs, and when you are at a max that you have seen before, look up the table and jump to the other max points to test them.

In any case, moving from the non-mpp point to the mpp point more slowly means a lost opportunity - maybe you were pulling 300w when you could have been pulling 302w, and it took you 10 seconds to get there, so that 20 watt-seconds lost.
Stepping away from the mpp to another point to ‘test’ how much power is at the other point will cost you again - maybe production drops from 300w to 280w for a second, then you know that you have gone somewhere worse, so you go back to your mpp - you have lost 20 watt-seconds, which is hardly anything, but can be significant. This is what the designers mean when they say an mppt is fast (gets to the mpp quickly) and accurate (actually lands on the mpp, not close to it)

So in answer to your question;

  • I don’t know the programming of the algo in the Victron mppt, but i know its better than the Growatt and the Epever algo.
  • The algo will have certain parameters that allow it to find the mpp fast, and track it accurately
  • In order to not land on false maximums in a multi-max graph, you have to compromise those parameters which will worsen the performance of the algo
  • My expectation would be that the following statement is the most descriptive explaination: “If your panels cannot experience shade due to your array placement and solar angles, the normal algo will perform the fastest. If you expect shade, Advanced Maximum Power Point Detection might be more reliable at finding the mpp at a small cost to speed or total captured energy.” So why pay the price of Advanced Maximum Power Point Detection if you already know your panels cannot experience shade?
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Thank you for the explanation. Nice and detailed.

For reference, this document is also a good starting point for study: https://axelzone.ro/storage/victron/mppt-techniques.pdf

Although your explanation could be very well true, I’ve expected an answer from Victron (or its experts and/or dealers) because it’s their software.

Indeed, the short route is to look onto the firmware, but I wanted for them to provide a reference and then to prove a point.
And the point is that the algo is still having problems on some conditions.

See here: Strange behavior (bug?) of one MPPT in a Multi RS