I just bought my first Victron product, the Orion XS 1400 and need a tiny bit of support.
My planned setup:
Van: Nissan NV300 (12V internal system with smart alternator)
Supply battery (to be charged with the Orion): 24V, 240A
3000V Inverter (which is actually irrelevant here…)
I did read the manual, like nobody read the manual ever before, and it’s a great manual, however,
I am really concerned about not messing up the voltage setting, since the last can and can and will damage my board battery if set wrongly.
So I don’t need (want) Orion to charge the supply battery when the engine is not running and need to set this right:
I went and measured the voltage on my van’s board battery and got these results:
Van not running: 12.26v
Van starting: (first drops to around 11.6V) then gets up to 13.57V and then settles at around 13.10V
How do I set up input voltage lock-out correctly, and, how do I deal with “engine shutdown detection,” since, as far as I understand, this is actually Orion’s automatic charging start-up, right? Will it still respect the voltage lockout setting if it’s turned on?
Furthermore, there is a start voltage and delayed start voltage setting in it (not yet set), which is a bit confusing. So what does now starts the charging, “start voltage” or “delayed start voltage” and how should I set “shutdown voltage” (term hysteresis hot me there badly…), to not interfere with the “voltage lock-out” setting?
Would really appreciate it if someone could help me out here.
I made some screenshots of the setting I made (engine shutdown not yet set), and also the battery specs data in case I got it wrong there…
I would have left it on default and done a test run.
Or possibly use the smart alternator setting.
Watch the charging while driving, if it is cutting out then it needs to be adjusted.
If you switch off and it is still drianing the battery for more and a few seconds. Possibly then review the settings.
Cutout should ideally be above the resting voltage but with a smart alternator is can get tricky as to how much above.
Leave the output at 50A just lower the input limit (unless your battery specifically only can take 30A or you have a few in parallel)
Ideally you set the two staggered. So the battery is out of the lockout range when going into the engine shutdown detection range. Thats also the purpose of the two ranges.
But yes, you can start with standard settings, only setting the alternator type to smart. From there keep an eye on how the starter battery voltage reacts during driving, preferrably by using a second person to drive while you watch the voltage. Since thats where for many cars with a smart alternator the voltage will vary the most. Accelerating most likely lets the alternator switch off, and therefore the starter battery voltage fall, while coasting or braking will let the smart alternator to go into full power mode, to assist in the vehicle slowing down.
Ideally you stay in that range with the engine shutdown detection voltages.
I did some more measurements on a car, and it’s basically no point leaving it at default, as at no point 14V is reached near starting the engine, not even a short spike of it. The idea of observing while driving is actually an excellent idea, did not even occur to me one could do that.
I wish I would get some more concrete information according to my provided info, but I believe I will manage to get it to work properly eventually.
Had a further question for you, since I see you are an expert:
You said: Cutout should ideally be above the resting voltage… What is meant by “cutout” (which setting?) and what with resting voltage (which setting?).
Why leave the output at 50A? Can it possibly be more drawn than 30A? Furthermore, it’s 12V to 24V, which actually even reduces the output, right? Or is there another reason? I thought limiting both would be an extra safety feature for the alternator side…
The input is the safety for the alternator.
And V * A is the reason you don’t really want to have have the same amperage on both sides. You can though.
E.g 13v * 30A = 390W = 24v * 16.25A. so even setting at 30A on the output makes no sense there.
The cut off voltage affects what heppens when the engine is off, it prevents the start battery from being drawn down.
There could be a situation where the alternator is not performing as welland it will help with protecting the engine battery.
Smart alternators can be a bit tricky and having a high start voltage can actually prevent the charge from ever starting.
Since the smart alternator does not output a fixed voltage, it is controlled by the engine management system (or some other vehicle controller). So you can not expect the voltage to rise just because the engine is running.
Its behaviour also varies greatly between different car brands. Some leave the alternator virtually switched off while the engine is still warming up. So even actually driving you dont see the starter battery voltage rise at first.
Some vehicles also react nicely to the Orion drawing current, they will keep the starter battery voltage up for as long as that additional load is present. But some dont, and as soon as you step on the gas the alternator is dialed back and the starter battery voltage falls quickly again.
And thus, you cant really set the voltage levels while the engine is idling. Its also not really possible to give you exact numbers, since those can vary between car brands. Even if someone has dialed in an Orion XS in an NV300 already, it could also be a difference in model year, engine type, and so on. All i could say in general is that Mercedes and VW “play” around with the smart alternators a lot, while Ford reacts nicely to an applied load and keeps the voltage high.
*“E.g 13v * 30A = 390W = 24v * 16.25A. so even setting at 30A on the output makes no sense there.”
*
Silly me, of course, you are right. Knew about it but I guess just didn’t think about it much near setting it up. I am new to this system…
So basically, a cutoff would be best to set above the idle V, so that way it won’t even think about draining the board battery, right?
I’ll definitely do that with driving and measuring the behavior and then setting everything up…
14v is the Orion’s default “wake-up” setting, so it basically wouldn’t ever start, if I were to just set it on the “default smart alternator”… That is why I mentioned the lack of 14V… I’ll definitely go with LX’s suggestion to drive and observe the behavior… Thanks for your input!
By the way, why is there a “start voltage” and then a “delayed start voltage"? Shouldn’t the start voltage be disabled if delayed start voltage is set, or did I miss something here?
Im sure the starter battery will get to that voltage at some point during driving, probably in five to ten minutes after actually getting rolling.
Im not entirely sure of the intention behind the two, but my guess is that the start voltage means the engine is definitely running, the alternator is running and outputting. So you can draw power from it immediately.
The delayed voltage is a “maybe”. The engine could be running, but its not that clear cut, so the voltage must be above that level for some time. Its possible that the alternator is indeed outputting, but maybe the starter battery was discharged, and now it needs time to recharge. Because of that you dont want to add even more load immediately, but give the system some time.
You cant disable a voltage level, but you could set it so some unreachable number, like 17V. So for example, someone once wanted the Orion to only start charging with a delay. To make this happen, you set the start voltage to 17V, which the starter battery can never reach, thus the Orion will never start charging without a delay.
