I have two 200 amp/hr LiFePo4 batteries connected in parallel in our vintage 1960 trailer. Can I use two 30amp IP22 or IP43 Victron chargers one on each battery to charge by two batteries?
Yes, I would parallel the batteries to a common bus and connect both chargers to the bus. I would not connect a single charger to each battery. Make sure the chargers are programmed the same. You should be able to network them for synchronized charging as well. Its the VE network within the settings where you do this.
Checklist:
Batteries paralleled properly with proper size and equal length cable
Batteries connected to a common bus
Chargers connected to the same bus
Batteries and chargers fused correctly
Chargers programmed the same
Chargers synchronized using VE Network
Just did some checking. There are some BlueSmart 12/30 chargers that do not have VE Network capabilities. These may no longer be available. Make sure the ones you buy do.
Perfect. Exactly what I needed to know. Great to get info from someone who knows these chargers.
Glad to hear I answered your question. Let me know if you need any more assistance. If you are happy go ahead and click the “solution” icon on my answer. Its much appreciated.
One more quick question…
For my situation would you recommend I purchase the IP22 or the IP43 Victron product? Will make sure the one I purchase does have the VENetwork capability
I am not super familiar with the Phoenix IP43 charger. Reading the literature on it seems to indicate its big selling point is its a world charger. Mainly made for boats it can be plugged into any AC power source of any voltage or hertz and convert it to 12VDC. Unless you are traveling to Europe it seems like overkill for your situation. Also more than double the price it doesn’t carry any benefit for you that’s worth it. So in my opinion the IP22 is your best option of the two.
Theres no VE.network. If you are looking for a VE.direct port then choose the IP43.
Screen shots from the current Victron IP22 data sheet. Courtesy of Victronenergy.com. I should have been clearer. VE Smart Network.
Great advice and much appreciated. I will go with the IP22 charger and make sure the VE.Smart network feature is active
Im not saying its bad advice, but i also wouldnt call it great.
First of all, whats the reason for two chargers?
If its because you got two batteries, then you dont need two chargers. The batteries are in parallel, one charger will do just fine. (Even if they are not in parallel, theres chargers with multiple outputs but thats a different story)
If its because you want higher charge current, a single 60A charger would do the same thing as two 30A, but there is no 60A charger from Victron so that would be a fair reason.
If its because you want redundancy, then thats also fair.
As for VE.smart, im not a big fan of it, it works, im using it if its beneficial. But you need to understand if theres a benefit in using it. In your example here theres not.
Ideally both of your chargers will measure the same battery voltage, because they use equal wiring and the same settings. So they will end up both doing the same thing, naturally, without communication. But of course the reality isnt ideal. Theres always going to be slight differences in measured voltage between the two chargers, so they will behave slightly different.
If you now join them into the same VE.smart network, one of them will take the master role, the slave will then use the masters battery voltage measurement and disregard its own. If the master is experiencing a high contact resistance to the battery (for example due to a loose connection) both chargers will react to that by reducing the output current, since they both think the battery voltage is high.
Should the slave experience a high contact resistance, then it will compensate for that by raising its output voltage, which in turn means the cause for the high resistance is getting loaded even more, potentially making it worse. Both of those scenarios are not beneficial. Yes you get synchronized charging, but what for. Theres no harm in one charger switching to float a minute before the other.
If you expand your system with a SmartShunt or a SmartBatterySense, then this device will take the role of the master, allowing the chargers to each individually compensate for voltage drop across the cables, and not rely on one another. Thats where there is a benefit in VE.smart.
Like i said, its not bad advice from @TherealKT, what is being said above is all correct, but its not the full picture. You can use two chargers along each other without communication just fine, but if you choose to join them to the same VE.smart network, be aware that there is not really a benefit out if that just by itself.
Chris,
Thanks for the detailed response, very helpful.
My need for two chargers is directly related for the need for additional charging capacity. I need approximately 50amp of charging capacity for my setup. I’m using two 200 amp/hr LiFePo batteries in my vintage 1960 Rv. I have a 12v AC that will draw approximately 40amps (@12volts).
Also, per your recommendation I will also be installing the Victron smart Shunt for battery management.
Based on your detailed response, I believe that Two victron IP22’s should be able to support atleast 50amp charging capability when the batteries are sufficiently depleted to require this level of charging. Do you agree that this setup will work with these chargers?
I will ensure that I have equal resistance to each battery from the charger set (same length and gauge of wire) to help ensure the voltage sensed by each charger is as close as possible to the same.
@chrigu makes good points but lets not overthink this. Victron products by their design offer way more complexity, functionality and customization than the average RV owner will ever need or be able to reasonably wrap their mind around. If we were having this conversation 10 years ago, before the prevalence of Victron products in the US market the conversation would be totally different, namely much simpler. Dealing mostly with RV applications I have to keep a more simplified philosophy before me and my customers or we all get “in the weeds” very quickly. You have a simple application here that doesn’t require much overthinking. With this Victron offers some very cool features that were formerly unavailable with “dumb” chargers. All the things apply that applied a decade ago. Install your cabling, bus bars, terminals and circuit protection well and things will work well. Except now we can wirelessly integrate the chargers, solar chargers and battery monitors. Does a full GX installation with Cerbo and wired VE NEtwork have other benefits? Without a doubt. Is that reasonable or affordable or necessary is my question to my customers. Sometimes it is. Even when the customer does choose this type of installation they really only utilize a small portion of its capabilities. With more components comes more complexity and with that more commitment required of the end user to understand and manage the system. We on this forum know this as all day long new users are posting very basic question regarding systems they or someone else installed that they can’t get to work right or don’t understand. Many of these end users would have been better off with a less complex system.
So I say all this to say, just install the two chargers properly. Network them with VE Smart Network, its awesome. Then you are also future proofed for adding a Victron SmartSolar MPPT, or Smartshunt later which can also all be networked with the chargers.
Thats the only part im not with you. I just dont see how its awesome. Its two chargers, exchanging a battery voltage. Im not trying to be an ass, i simply dont see a benefit, in this example here
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Ok. Compare VE Smart Network to no network at all. Then imagine he may want to add any number of VE Smart capable Victron products in the future. VE Smart seams pretty cool to me.
A real world issue I regularly run into is an RV already has a non Victron solar charger or factory converter installed, often with limited charge setting programmability. Its easy to say, “well replace it all with Victron”, but its not your money. Its the customers money. Its always easier to spend other people’s money. I digress. In these scenarios I install a Victron charger, maybe Orion or Multiplus and I have to adjust the settings on the Victron side to cooperate with the Go Power or Renogy or some other brand charger controller. If I don’t on occasion the off brand solar charger, that can not be fine tuned in its settings, will force the other chargers off early. In these situations I am at the mercy of the other components. When I got into this business we just lived with these inefficiencies to a point but now we can make it all work together in a very simple and affordable solution.
So in a broader sense it makes a lot of sense compared to no network at all, especially for future planning of upgrades.
I agree that synced charging between two chargers is not a massive benefit but it is a benefit compared to none at all. Whats the point of synced charging if it makes no difference? His other options would be to install a single charger with lower amp output, or go away from Victron. I still say this is a great solution for the money spent.
For the record, the best option here, if I’m aloud to figuratively spend other peoples money, is to put in a Multiplus.
By the way, I don’t think you are an ass.
Thats really my point. You can install two Victron chargers, not join them into a VE.smart network and there wont be a difference. Or i dont get where. I understand the rest, and i agree with that things have changed over the past decade when it comes to RVs, also in europe. Im also mostly using Victron in vehicles, and yes bluetooth communication and VC is very nice, i love it. But anyway, i guess our discussion is really getting OPs question off track
And just a question, in this case, with two paralleled bateries, is not so important but if they were two different battery banks would be different.
The question is, in the case of installing a smartShunt, it’s needed just one or one for each battery?
Just one smartshunt would be necessary since its a single battery bank.