Compatibility with Wind Generator Charge Controllers

DIY
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1

I just bought a SmartSolar MPPT 150/35 to run six solar panels. I also have a wind generator. I idid have a non-branded Chinese hybrid controller but its internal limits would not allow me to generate more power when I went from 4 to 6 panels, so I took it offline.

I had a Renogy Rover 30, and I ran it and the wind controller wiring to the same battery bank. Apparently thge Rover 30 did not like the dump load on the wind generator, and eventually it died. Renogy would not honor the warranty becasue they said I violated it even though there was no verbiage that said I could not do this.

So my question is, with this unit work alongside a wind generator charge controller?

Wind generators do not throttle power as the batteries get fullly charged because they need to have a load against them, especially in high winds. Instead, an automatic transfer switch channels excess power to a “dump load” (a large resistor that converts electricity into heat).

During high winds, the constant load acts as a brake to prevent the generator from spinning itself apart. This is necessary. I currently have the wind generator connected to a separate battery so that it is not charging my main bank, but sill has a load on it.

It would be nice to reconnect it back to my main bank, but I din’t want to do so if it voids the warranty or if it ends up frying the SmartSolar unit.

The link to the wind charge controller is here: https://windandsolar.com/digital-440-amp-charge-controller-divert-relay.

Any advice would be appreciated.

2

Hi and welcome.
I too run wind turbines with Victron kit.

You don’t say what Wind Turbine you have, knowing this will help us help you. Can you give us a link to it please.

You will need a dedicated controller for your turbine (i purchased the MC2 controller with the turbine), see below for a typical but simple setup (without showing the smart shunts i have installed).

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Not sure how well the Digital 440 Amp Charge Controller with Divert Relay & LED Volt Meter for Wind and Solar. would work.

I would look around for other controllers so you can compare their functions. I am sure others here will have some helpful suggestions too.

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There is a “wind” tag, if you put that into your posting, people find it better and may reply.

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Generator is a Missouri Wind and Solar Raptor 7. 1,600W. The controller is one they designed for this unit. It has a relay switch that is set to add a dump load when voltage gets too high. The generator is 3-phase AC that goes into a recftifier, which converts it to DC.

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Not sure what you mean.

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Link to the generator is here… https://windandsolar.com/raptor-g4-7-blade-freedom-wind-turbine-generator. The charge controller is also from this company.

7

This was the wiring configuration for the Rover 30 and the wind generator. Since then I have added 2 batteries and 2 panels, but it is still configured as 24V.

The dump load in this setup is an extra circuit. the batteries are still engaged when it comes in. I was thinking I could configure it so that the batteries, and thus the Victron, would be disengaged when the dump load is fired.

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Interesting.
How my Turbine works is, my Turbine controller allows complete control of the turbine, see below. Do you have some level of software control like this? (or able to manually set?).

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The output (48v in my case) feeds into a Smartshunt (as below) and what happens as the power from the turbine increases my MPPT’s sees this and ramp down accordingly.

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This is what you want to do? but the diagram above does not look correct to me (but i could be wrong), i would expect the feed from the rectifier to go (just) into MWS 24V Relay and the two outputs from that, one to the dumpload and the other to the batteries, otherwise your batteries would get overcharged.
Something like this…

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Remember the Turbine controller should only switch to dumpload when the turbine reaches the stall level (in my case a voltage level, that way my batteries will never get overcharged by the Turbine) and only turn back on when the Reset level is reached, so if yours does this you should be ok, this exactly how mine works using Victron’s MPPT’s.

9

The MWS charge controller is digital, but it is all manual. There is no Bluetooth control, but you can set all but stall level controls. What I do is set my max voltage at 29.2 (24V system). Low voltage is 21.6, and reset is 24.6. It engages the relay, which is a separate device. The relay was configured to keep the batteries engaged when it goes to dump load, but I can change that by rewiring the connections to it so that when it goes to dump, it creates a separate dump circuit similar to your diagram.

Hadn’'t thought of adding a battery monitor, but that could be effective. My main concern is voiding the Victron warranty. I know how to set it up. I just don’t want to damage the Victron.

10

Ok well this looks good; can we just check a few things just to make sure.

Does the turbine stall engage (ie have you see it happen? this is important to ensure no damage happens to the turbine due to excessive Rotar speed, and the charge is disconnected so batteries don’t get overcharged, and equipment doesn’t get damaged)

Is the dumpload sufficient ( Power = Volt x Amps = (29 volts x ?? amps) = ??? Watts, have you tested it? (are you going to use it, like a water heater?)
A diversion load charge controller (what you describe) switches the wind turbine’s connection to the dumpload when the batteries are fully charged so you may or may not need/use this. (your batteries must not be connected to this circuit)

The max voltage i set is bit less than the absorption voltage of the MPPT (mine is set to 0.2v less), to stop any possibility of overcharging. But always follow the battery’s Manufacture recommendations for absorption & float voltages.

The low voltage looks ok but as above.

You should use a Smartshunt as a DC Meter to monitor and measure the charge coming from the turbine, this way in VRM (with the DC Power tile selected see below) you will see the charge as a negative reading (ie -123w).
DC
As MTTP’s sees this as an external charging source they will ramp up and down accordingly.

As long as everything functions as described above (double check your settings) you should not overcharge the batteries, and in turn void any warranty on any equipment attached. (But always read the manufactures information supplied with the equipment, and if in doute you can always contact your local dealer)

So, what should happen is…
Your batteries get charge from the MPPT &/or Wind Turbine, when the MPPT’s see the charge from the Turbine rise (DC Power) they ramp down (and stop if not needed), the Turbine keeps charging the batteries until it hits the Stall Voltage then the Turbine stalls stopping all Turbine charging (unless using the dumpload)
(Note - the dumpload is considered as externally connected load, such as a resistance or water heating element. Then basically, a dumpload is where the extra unwanted power is sent if you want to use it after the batteries are fully charged)
As the voltage drops the MPPT’s & Turbine start charging the batteries again.

This is how i have had my two turbines setup on my 12 & 48v systems for two years now without any problems at all.

11

The dump load does engage now. We would have to test it to make sure it does after we rewire it. The controller fires the relay. It is just a matter of repositioning a couple wires on the relay which is a “dumb” device, meaning it does whatever the controller tells it to.

MWS recommends a 600W dump load for this, and it is done through 2 x 300W resistors configured in parallel. When it was connected to the hybrid MPPT, its wattage would peak at about 250. Basically 24V at 10+A . So the dump resistors I have should work.

The situation for my generator is not ideal. I am limited by code to 35’ AGL, and that would put it in the thickest ot the surrounding tree foliage. So my intent is to have it pick up ground level winds, which are gusty and come from several directions.

Still, it is a good resource in the winter when this region is allergic to sunny days and we can go over a month without one. Sometimes we may not even see the sun for two weeks.

What you are saying about the batteries being disconnected from the dump circuit confirms my thoughts as well. Where would the Smart Shunt be positioned, between the battery and the wind controller or the MPPT?

The warranty is nebulous about its inclusion with other devices. And apparently, no Victron representative reads these posts, because all it would take is a simple yes or no answer as to whether this would be covered or not.

This is what I don’t like about “communities.” The manufacturer, the ultimate product expert, abdicates its expert position and stays absent, and we, the product owners are left to fend for ourselves. Victron is hardly alone in doing this.

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Hi looks like your almost there, this is how mine is wired with two Smartshunts.

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If your happy with the dumpload and its operation that’s one less thing to worry about but have you checked the Turbine Stall function? because if this doesn’t work equipment and batteries will get damaged, sorry to go on about this but it’s probably the single most important thing that must work.

I understand about not having the ideal position, my turbines don’t do much in the summer due to wind direction (but they don’t have to as i have more solar than i could ever use) but in the winter the wind shifts, and the turbines come into their own.

I have worked with and for lots of companies and i will say (with hand on heart) Victron are one of the best, this community is very good and for any Victron Staff Member to comment without knowing all the facts and exactly how systems are setup would probably not be appropriate or fair, that said i know if they can help, they will chip in. As i said you can contact your local Victron dealer.

The problem all services departments have is most people will be less than forthcoming with what happened, it’s human nature to protect yourself so a lot of the time you have to take the customer word for what happened even though you know no way what they tell you could have caused the damage presented.

If you setup your system as i have mine what this demonstrates is due diligence on your part and you will have history (in VRM) that will support how you have operated your system, and Victron are fair and understanding i am sure you would not have any problems.

Good luck anything else please ask, and when you have it all setup and working, please come back here and let me know.
Cheers, Dave.

13

THis is the link to the charge controller programming instructions for my controller. https://mwands.net/pdf_files/3phbc.pdf. They recommend you set both the cutoff (dump load) and reconnect voltages. There are two other settings they do not describe, and say they are only for someone well experienced.

I do not understand the difference between turbine stall and cutoff. None of my wind charge controllers to this point have 4 settings. They just have cutoff, reconnect, and low voltage cutoff.

As far as the Smart Shunt is concerned, what would the configuration be with just one unit instead of two?

14

Hi,
The difference between turbine stall and cutoff functions are stall will short the 3 phases of the turbine together increasing the resistance of the blades to turn when windy, cutoff according to the spec sheet is when the relay switches from charging the batteries to the dumpload. (i think??)

It would seem (with the controller you have) there is no stall function unless i have missed something or the terminology they use is unfamiliar to me.
That said, does this work…? (quoted from you first post)
“During high winds, the constant load acts as a brake to prevent the generator from spinning itself apart. This is necessary. I currently have the wind generator connected to a separate battery so that it is not charging my main bank, but still has a load on it.”

This is the controller with the stall function.

I would not recommend you connect to your main bank unless you have an automictic and manual stall function.

Have you seen this and this it might help explain the difference.

As for the smartshunts i would use two, if you just use one (on the main system D in my post 8) it would be more difficult to measure the power the turbine is producing, you would just see a negative reading in the DC tile but this might not be the true power from the turbine because of other DC loads that will influence that reading.

With a second smartshunt this is what you can see in VRM. (GUI-v2)

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w2
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15

What you call “stall” has been called “braking” by the manufacturer. I have a manual brake switch, which is used to arrest the spin if you want to work on the unit. Having it braked, prevents it from suddenly spinning up and doing something crazy like cutting off your hand.

However, the brake is not recommended for use in winds over 20MPH because the act of shorting the 3 leads creates heat in the generator, and will ultimately burn it up. This generator is built to withstand 90 MPH winds. It spins upward of 3,000 RPM. The recommended dump load of 600W draw, is sufficient in keeping it from spinning apart.

16

Ok good :ok_hand:

So one SmartShunt or two?

17

Not sure at this point. I might start with one (in your “D” position) then add a second later. There are no other DC loads on my batteries except the inverter. so all of the negative loads I would see would be from the wind.

18

Ok sounds like a plan.

What might be worth doing is running the turbine stand alone for a while and check that it switches to dumpload and doesn’t keep trying to charge the battery.

Inverter, MPPT and smartshunt will put a small DC load on the system .

Let me know how this goes if you decide to do that.

19

Will need to figure out how to test that. It doesn’t go to dump load very often unless I have a day of 15 MPH or better gusts for a prolonged period of time. Interestingly, I have a chandelier in the kitchen on one of my transfer circuits (my system is off grid), It has LED lights and on a windy day you can visually see the lights get brigher when the generator starts spinning.

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I would contact the manufacture and follow their instructions or see if their is something on their website about testing the dumpload. But either way I would monitor the turbine very closely before connecting it to your main system.

It has LED lights and on a windy day you can visually see the lights get brigher when the generator starts spinning.

This would worry me because it suggests a problem with voltage regulation, is this mains power (120/240v) or 12/24v? what Inverter are you using?