OGPS
(Ed @ Off-Grid Power Systems - offgridps.com)
26
Be careful with your generalizations. This distributor has two master degrees, spent 25 years in designing disaster-tolerant datacenter solutions for the largest corporations in the world, whose business holds an electrical contractors license, has both ME and EE’s on the payroll, and I am personally sitting for the master electrician and electrical contractor exams this Fall. (I’m the owner). With our combined experience, there are probably very few distributors in the USA who can match our skills. There are plenty of box-pushers out there and technicians who have enough experience to solve 80% of issues they’ll encounter and know how to properly install common systems. In the USA, most of these people are focused on RV and marine solutions or small off-grid solutions for cabins. Victron doesn’t provide very many AC products for the USA so most of the experienced Victron installers here are limited to mobility experience. Even with that, we’ve designed and installed Victron systems ranging from powering a single POE camera on a pole to very large three phase systems to condition power and provide power for automobile manufacturers.
I’m not saying this to toot my own horn (well, maybe just a little *smirk*) but to point out that distributors run the gamut from box pushers only to highly experienced engineers who have seen and solved a lot of problems over the years. The issues specifically to Victron as I see it are: 1. Distributors aren’t supposed to escalate within Victron themselves. Instead, we’re supposed to work through our already overly burdened sales managers who routinely travel 50-75% of the time. Getting timely responses is often not possible, which is why experienced distributors know who to contact inside of Victron Energy when there is a truly urgent need and also know to only play those cards when it’s really necessary. With great respect to them, I have dropped meetings on Matthijs calendar and he’s attended the meeting! I’ve called Johannes Boonstra’s cell phone and he answered and knew who I was. They know I’m vocal, speak my mind, but am also courteous and helpful back to Victron.
Number 2, Victron doesn’t differentiate between box sellers and value-added distributors and allow distributors to sell on Amazon. That causes a lot of trouble for value-added distributors because these buyers then start war dialing distributors they find on Victron’s website asking for help on something they purchased elsewhere. Personally, I don’t think Victron should allow online sales anywhere except the distributors’ own web commerce sites OR Victron should be the only company to sell Victron products on Amazon and then be required to support those customers.
All in all, however, I favor Victron’s current approach with just some small changes. They push a lot of responsibilities down to distributors but also provide a lot of support to distributors. Having worked at Hewlett-Packard back in the day, and a couple of VAR’s after that, I have a good idea of distribution models from OEMs down to small installers. Victron’s approach largely works and could be made better with some tweaks.
Cheers to all the distributors who spend their time - unpaid - to help answer questions on this forum, and regularly put up with abuse from naive dealers, installers, and end users. Thankfully, by and large the culture and tone of this community is really good.
What about offering training to individual people? Of course, paid courses.
Why? Because sometimes those are more interested than the distributors and sales managers.
And another aspect… Look at the Victron Proffesional - Events section…
Almost exclusively on US and South Africa… Wonder why?..
Because you said that Victron is investing in training the personnel…
Or the events are not on Victron money and only those on those countries are sponsoring such events?
On this community are a lot of users, needy and/or passionate people I could say…
Didn’t see up until now an advertising for a training event/session… On site or virtual… From those responsible for training…
Because you said that Victron is investing in training the personnel… It’s a closed/private circle?
On the other hand, I’ve seen technicians that are bragging with Victron training and they don’t even remember Ohm’s and Kirchhoff’s laws from college classes… And are surprised that when using a diode the current will flow in only one direction and tell me that instead of that diode I could use a Victron battery isolator… Doh…
In my case, I’m living in The Netherlands, so I have the luxury to contact Victron head office.
I had the e-mail conversation with a well known servant of the technical department.
He helped me out, but for future support he adviced to contact one of their preferred dealers.
But as written earlier; this was some years ago, so things may have changed at Victron.
Like the Need support? - Victron Energy example you gave me, I did not know this until know.
OGPS
(Ed @ Off-Grid Power Systems - offgridps.com)
30
I am not an electronics expert by any means and I cannot recite Kirchhoff’s laws either I know them generally, however. I also know to look for a voltage drop across a diode, but I couldn’t tell you when a zener diode is preferred. But, I’m not engineering power electronics, I’m integrating power electronics. Fortunately, I have an EE on staff (he’s semi-retired) who holds 75 patents and can design just about any circuit we’d ever need. lol
Our dealers, installers, and end-user customers have access to these resources. Trust me, it’s expensive
Guys. Please stay on topic and not make it personal. This is starting to drift, the points have been made.
We prefer leaving the moderator hat in the closet.
2 Likes
OGPS
(Ed @ Off-Grid Power Systems - offgridps.com)
33
I don’t have an issue with that and I don’t recall any of the other folks saying that. What got my knickers in a twist is the OP.
1 Like
OGPS
(Ed @ Off-Grid Power Systems - offgridps.com)
34
Your point is made. FWIW, I didn’t find @bachete ‘s response as a personal attack. A little snarky, but I’m hardly one to cast stones about that
Now I am realizing, regarding my previous message, that sometimes people doesn’t want to be trained and just want theirs immediate problem solved… And quick. They don’t have “the time” to learn something…
Statistically, tell one to stay and learn something new for half hour and will say “not now, I don’t have time, I am tired, etc” you get the drift…
But the same person will spend 3 hours on facebook, instagram, tic-tok, and so on… Cheap dopamine.
Rant over… Sorry.
We might wonder why customers have questions about Victron products.
Is it because the manual is unclear? Is it because don’t know enough about it? Or they started experimenting? Or because they’ve started connecting unsupported components?
Customers all want manuals that provide a clear answer to every conceivably situation, unfortunately that doesn’t exist, even with video clips, you’d have to make hundreds of them to describe all Victron product’s in detail..
And so we continue mailing Victron dealers with hundreds of questions again and again…mainly because almost no Victron system are the same.
I live in the Pacific Northwest. I have 4 distributors in my region to choose from to get product in a timely manner. All of them vary greatly in their business models.
Even though two of these distributors are a 20 minute drive or less I don’t get very good support from them for different reasons. I actually do business the most with the one the farthest away. They are by far the most helpful and coincidentally the best price. Shipping is free and no more than two business days away.
It took me some time and frustration to figure this out.
At this point, there are so many distributors to choose from, I would personally be willing to do business with someone even farther away if the support was good. I can get product from just about anywhere in the US in about 4-5 days at the worst.
I think the lithium battery market is a good indicator of where we are at in the world right now. We have a ton of companies selling batteries but their corporate structures are very heavy in the marketing department and not so much in R&D(if it exists at all). You get generic, script read trouble shooting when you call or email if you get a response at all(it actually takes independent youtubers to expose their issues). There is no such thing as a community forum like this. No distributors trained in the products, no regional reps. Many companies selling solar components are the same. Try to get anything close to the tech support you have access to with Victron from some off brand charge controller.
IF Victron could do anything better, from my experience as a dealer/installer, it would be to standardize and enforce what is required of anyone considered a “distributor”. If they want to receive the pricing they get they MUST provide a certain level of support. Otherwise they shouldn’t be allowed to be a distributor. They shouldn’t simply be an installer who also is a “distributor”. Often this creates a conflict of interest and lack of motivation to offer good support when your customers are also potentially your competitors.
“They shouldn’t simply be an installer who also is a “distributor”. Often this creates a conflict of interest and lack of motivation to offer good support when your customers are also potentially your competitors.”
Amen to that. Buying from a retailer or installing dealer who tries to be a distributor, has never worked out well for me!
I know them generally, however. I also know to look for a voltage drop across a diode, but I couldn’t tell you when a zener diode is preferred. But, I’m not engineering power electronics, I’m integrating power electronics. Fortunately, I have an EE on staff (he’s semi-retired) who holds 75 patents and can design just about any circuit we’d ever need. lol