Paul, if cost was the problem then it would be simple to fix, either bite the bullet or move on. But space is the limiting factor. And if I had that extra space I would fill it with more batteries, not a second inverter. I am doing a deeper dive into the Midnite 7Kw unit, But I wish it was a 10Kw. My guess is if Victron did build a 240v 10Kw Quattro they would just use the parts from two and it would be double the size, as in my opinion they just don’t seem to think the USA and 240v is important enough to build something, and they can sell two boxes to us instead of one. On your other point about a bigger 2x120v, i keep hearing suggestions there would be a potential for a neutral overload, which split phase mitigates. -Bill
Quattro 15kVA 48/15000/20 0-100/100 does exist, 230V 50Hz for the European market. Dimensions are 572 x 488 x 344 mm³ (height x width x depth). This should be able to supply most high-power devices that need the high voltage anyway, but doesn’t produce split-phase without adding an autotransformer. It might be illegal to use in the USA, though.
For the technical inclined persons, why don’t you rebuild the windings of a Quattro or MP2 230V version and add a midpoint on the 230V winding?
If that would would for 240v split phase, why wouldn’t they do that?
I’ve seen those, but still not split phase in a single unit and 50hz would create a lot of flicker on the tele…
Yea it sounded like you had a big coach to work with, I didn’t think about space limits. The basement in our 34’ is really snug. Got creative and tucked our inverter & 4 small MPPT up in the unusable space between the frame rails, inverter on a fold down bracket. The interface is excellent, my wife is always looking at that thing. She loves doing laundry on travel days, using solar.
Honestly I don’t hear much about 240V loads, mini-splits and that cook top, not sure what else? A big 240V inverter as I suggested, on a true 240V load shouldn’t have neutral current. Pretty sure the neutral is about maxed out in the existing 2x120 when boosting shore, probably why there aren’t higher output units. I’d rather see more DC loads instead of bigger inverters. All companies design what there is market for, your application sounds like a corner case.
The Victron Autotransformer is not an option?
Victron calls it “the ultimate solution for split phase installations”
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No, I am looking for something made to do this for the US market. I want to buy a single unit that does what we all need in the USA. Split Phase. I am not looking to kludge it together because they don’t have something engineered for the US market. I’ve been using other victron equipment for 8 years now. I just assumed I would put in a victron inverter when my magnum went south and I upgraded my electrical infrastructure. I was dumbfounded a bit over a week ago to find out that I couldn’t upgrade my power to 48v and run the whole coach by powering both sides of the circuit panel with a single inverter like pretty much all home units do. I always assumed a 10Va Quattro would be all I need… but I would have to double it up. Nah that’s laughable.
Too bad they don’t have something like an Outback Radian.
A friend of ours has one of the older Radians, and it has basically two modules in it that both run under higher loads, with one going idle under light load making the standby current very low. (Less than half an amp at 48v, if I remember correctly.)
This particular Radian is rated at 8kw, 12kw peak, and has a true 240/120 split phase output.
His was originally setup using a 1200 ah ‘48’ volt lead acid bank, but they have been replaced by two 48v 300 ah LiFePo units.
I haven’t followed Outback now for quite a while, as we don’t live anymore where the inverter is installed.
I will look into those. So far no dealer has suggested either of those brands for my project. Thanks for that info! -Bill
I suspect that’s largely because 48V is not yet prevalent in the global RV market. I’d also point out that while split phase is technically available in the RV distribution panels it’s more an engineering streamlining option for the RV pedestals and not because 120/240V is required for loads. Mobile AC distribution panels actually go to quite some length to physically make it difficult to install a 120/240 load (T style panels, etc). Until the RV / mobile market here in the US needs 48V, and has 120/240 loads built for the purpose, I don’t think we’ll see a Victron RV split phase inverter. Even if using 120/240 you can run both side with the same 120V phase in most cases.
That said, Victron has done a great job of allowing you to build what you need - yes, with two or more inverter/chargers. A 120/240 home/offgrid Inverter/Charger is in their pipeline, but “it’ll be ready when it’s ready” as Vader is fond of saying. Any other brand is doing much the same but without flexibility in their all-in-ones, thus why you’re seeing so many home Inverter/Charger models from everyone and no-one carries a mobile specific model. Even the Rosie (great classic that’s been around for awhile) isn’t necessarily designed for mobile, though you can use it and it does carry the UL458 cert.
Bottom line: a 48V / 10kW 120/240 RV is a full on house-on-wheels with less space available - expect to see equipment for the residential market being what you find.
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Victron replied to me they are working on an 8Kw 240 for late next year
They are indeed! Good to hear them talking about it via the forums finally. It’s been in the works for awhile. “It’ll be ready when it’s ready” is no joke for Victron. I still don’t expect it to be mobile specific, though with Victron all their gear is basically equally appropriate for mobile as it is residential situations.
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IDK what special considerations there are for the RV market, but in my off grid home I run a single 48V 8kVA Multiplus II as 240V split phase by the addition of their 100A Autotransformer. Both the Multiplus and the AT support automatically switchable N-G bonding though it wouldn’t really be needed for connecting to shore power as the feed-in Neutral is not used.
My external AC is a standard NA 240V generator that connects to the AC input of the MP.
The system supports 100A passthrough, and PowerAssist in the event the external AC is not sufficient.
If both generator and grid power are used as inputs, the Quattro can be substituted for the MP as it has two AC Inputs and a transfer switch that can select between them.
The only fly in the above ointment is the international MP is not UL approved.
BTW, I bought my kit from Reid at Intelligent Controls (see his post above). Good people to work with. They know their stuff.
We are in the USA and have an European 230/50H Quattro in our motorhome with an autotransformer. It’s very easy to change the inverter to 240/60H and the autotransformer provides 240/120 for the panel. Only one inverter is needed and you can package the autotransformer in the same area as the inverter or another as space dictates. It works quite well and in my opinion adds benefits over a 120/240 inverter. Add a second autotransformer and you can use 30 amp 120V shore power with no issues. This blog post explains it quite well.
Dual rosies seems like the best option for you?
Other option would be dual little rosies (120V, 3500W at 40C) but standalone as they cant be paralleled, one for each leg of the panel. No issues with leg imbalances that way.
Potentially run with grid support from generator if you do have to fire up more than 7kW of loads?
@Brucey, Whats the thinking on dual 3kw vs a single 240v 7kw Unit? I am hoping to add a 240v Induction cook top in the future and might want it available via battery.
The little rosie mobile is rated at 3600VA 120V at 40C
The big rosie is 7000VA 120/240V at 25C, 6000VA at 40C
Not sure what they derate to beyond you had mentioned 60C ambient temps?
I’d say dual big rosie but otherwise perhaps dual little rosie over a single big rosie, more power and some redudancy.
I have a single big rosie runs my small house fine.
I just added a Victron battery balancer that will monitor the voltage difference and apply a current draw to the battery that is being over charged to give the lower battery time to catch up, that is basicliy how they work. works for seriesl 12 volts to make 24 volt banks or parelell 12 volt bank or both together.
@ John Ward… I think you added your comment to the wrong thread.