First let me say I will keep 1 or 2 of my current 12v lithium’s to power all the 12v systems and not use a buck device.
My coach currently has a 2800 watt inverter/charger to power lots of the 120v equipment except the A/C’s, Washer/Dryer, Central vac, electric side of the W/H. There are probably others. I am considering putting the inverter in front of the existing circuit panel so it can power everything in the coach. Its a 50amp shore power cable and a ~35amp diesel genny integrated with a transfer switch. (7500w) The genny puts out 120v x 2 only, on two Romex cables that look like 15amp size, not 20’s as I would have expected, I cannot see the size of the conductors but I am used to 20amp Romex being Yellow in 2006.
My quandary is if I need an inverter that does split phase… Nothing in my coach has a double breaker so nothing is using both legs of shore power. My uneducated guess is I do not. But I would think my Inverter must accept split-phase from the Shore pedestal. I am considering the Quattro 48-5000va (4000w)
That Quattro says it can charge at 220 amps (22amp @120v) which I think the SP could easily provide, but I am not sure the genny with its two legs of 120v on what looks like 15am wire could.
My panel currently has a 30amp single breaker to feed the existing Inverter/charger and I am thinking I would remove that (and that inverter) and replace it with 2 cheater 20 amp breaker to feed those existing 20 amp feeds from the existing inverter.
I would have loved to find a 6000w inverter charger but I wanted to stay with Victron and I am not finding one.
Are there any gotchas I might be missing with this installation? Will the Quattro power both output legs all the time whether on battery, Genny or SP?
My 2@ solar 100/50 controller will need to be replaced with something that can handle 48v.
Hi Bill. This forum isn’t appropriate for design consultation. I think you should call up your local Victron installer or distributor and have them help you design a system to meet your needs. If you don’t have one locally then find one that will work with you to design and prepare a comprehensive wiring diagram for you to follow. You are welcome to contact our company for guidance, but working with a local distributor is probably the best fit for you.
If the two legs of output from your generator are 120V in phase with each other, then I would recommend you look at two Quattro-II 24/3000 2x-120V models instead. Victron does not make a 2x-120V in a 48V DC model.
If the two legs of output from your generator are 120V 180° phase rotation, then two Quattro 48/5000 in split-phase configuration would be a good fit.
Your 50A shore power connection most likely feeds the entire load center, with one 120V leg powering the right side, and the other powering the left. You likely have a circuit breaker in the breaker panel that feeds the input of the inverter to power those loads when on shore power and charge the battery from one leg of shore power. This is why only certain circuits inside will run off the inverter.
The 2x-120V Multis and Quattros from Victron are meant precisely for 50A RVs in the USA.
Either OGPS or your local Victron installer/distributor can walk you through the rest. Have fun with your project!
Bummer. I do not have room for two inverters in the motorhome. Its odd my genny has two same phase hots, but that is what my Quiet Diesel Onan 7500 provides. But they do currently feed both sides of the panel via a transfer switch. -Bill
You’re right. The smaller Onan units are 120V only. I think you have to get to 10kW before they offer 240V in the recreational series but I could be mistaken. If you don’t have room for two inverters then get a single 2x-120V. It will pass through both legs of power when you are on 50A service and you can connect one 120V output from your generator to the input of the single 2x-120V. You can buy another battery charger to connect to the second leg of generator power so you can charge batteries faster, but if you can do that, then you could probably fit two inverters in the first place. With some creative thinking, I’m betting you can fit two inverters in there In motorhomes we usually put dual inverters in between the frame rails toward the rear of a baggage compartment. Best of luck!
What I seem to be understanding from this thread is Victron does “not” have an inverter/charger that can power both sides, L1 & L2, without having to install 2 inverter/chargers so I can run everything in my coach from my battery’s? I probably would never run the W/H from the battery, but excluding that seems shortsighted especially if I wanted a larger quattro like the 8k. -Bill
Disclosure: I don’t speak for Victron or work for Victron. I am a Victron distributor.
Victron does not offer quite a few of its products to the North American market. For example, there are no Quattro 8kVA units for our market. Nor do we have the Multi RS, ESS, grid codes, Quattro-II (except for the 2x-120V), 8kVA inverters, the new 4k5 and 6k5 inverters, split-phase inverters, EVCS, etc. I won’t postulate on why this is, but I’ve shared my opinions with Victron rep and all the way up the chain. All I can suggest is that anyone in Canada, USA, or Mexico write to their Victron rep or Victron distributor and let them know your opinion.
As to your last question, Victron does not offer a single inverter that can provide split-phase inverted power.
Since my Genny is not split phase and it actually two independent 120v legs which currently powers both sides of my circuit panel today, what inverter/chargers does Victron make that can power two 120v outs that both legs continue to work on battery? Or do I need to look for SOB? I would like to stick with Victron but if I cannot get what I need there then I must. My current I/C is starting to become a bit of a flake. -Bill
Does it have to be 48V or will 24V work? If 24V is an option, then look at the Quattro-II 24/3000 2x-120. It will do what you want but will not full load up the generator when it is running unless you are passing through large loads. The battery charger will output a maximum of 2400W into the batteries. You either need a second inverter or add a standalone charger to load up the genset. That’s why I think two of the Quattros in parallel is a better option for you and I’m confident you can find space for it
I will be sticking with 48v for any new purchases. And I wouldn’t even consider installing two inverter/chargers in my motorhome. The space issues are one thing but the added complexities seem a bit like a Rube Goldberg approach to the problem. I’m sure some company will have a solution. I just would have liked to stick with Victron, but I have been using Magnum for many years and its giving me signs of upcoming problems. So my plan is to upgrade to 48v, and move my 8k of 12v batteries and old inverter into the house as a backup power system for short term power outages.
Kind of bummed they don’t have a reasonable and cost effective solution for what a lot of folks seem to be doing in the RV World today.
Bill, just an independent observation in case it helps at all to hear it from yet another disinterested arms-length human.. It’s clear based on this thread and another one you posted that you have a strong aversion to having two inverter units. But, your reasoning doesn’t seem to be logical. If you have space constraints, you may not have room for the unit you wish existed anyway (imagine it’s 1.5-2x the size of a single 120v inverter). With it split into two smaller cabinets, it gives you more flexibility for finding a mounting arrangement that can work in your limited space. And I really can’t understand the “Rube Goldberg” view. It’s two units powering two separate legs of your panel, designed to work together for your exact use case. How is it hacky or weird or anything? The wiring is really no different than if it was one unit. The only thing “hacky” about it might be that your two units need to talk to each other with a standard comm cable and need to be configured to cooperate during the initial configuration (which you’d be doing either way even with a one box solution). I think you’re making it feel more clunky and convoluted in your head than it actually is in reality.
May be illogical to you and anyone else that’s bought into the sales pitch to buy two of something because the vendor doesn’t want to make something for your market. But now I have found a unit that fits all the criteria except its only 7Kw, not the 8Kw of a 10000Va Quattro. And its smaller than a single Quattro 10kVA For me, its checking all the boxes for my motorhome..
Big Rosie=21x14x8” 240v Split Phase Native. Integrated neutral bonding switch.
Paul, Not sure where you are getting your info. But its 7000 watts not Kva. With a surge capacity of 15,000 Kva Maybe you are looking at the Little Rosie which is 1/2 the size and doesn’t do 240v SP.
Here is a copy and paste from the manual.:
MNROSIE7048M – a 7000-watt inverter/charger with 60-amp AC transfer relay and 120-
amp, multi-stage PFC battery charger. The AC IN and OUT Neutrals are NOT common to
allow automatic neutral-to-ground switching for Mobile applications (RV, truck, or
marine).
I just checked the brochure on Midnight’s website, the features are in KW but the spec says kVA? FWIW, overload is 8,400 VA and has a time component listed, the surge does not.
Don’t shoot the messenger.
Specs in the manual also say 7kVA (pg 53, rev C). Maybe it’s something to do with power factor listed, I’m not too up on that stuff,.
Also it doesn’t mention anything shore current limit or boost, but I didn’t search too hard. Those are 2 features are must-haves for us when moochdocking.
Overload is 30 Minutes in that Doc you attached.. To my knowledge that’s an eternity to overload any inverter.. And 7000 watts at PF of .95 Current Limit is 60amp AC per leg in the manual.
That is an eternity, but the most recent brochure says 60A out max for 60 seconds, the manual doesn’t appear to address that.
You might query the manufacturer on this one too:
“Overload 30 min sec at 25C : 8700VA”
Do they mean 30 min or 30 seconds, other? Half hour overload would be tough to keep at 25C. I think PF less than unity lowers available Watts?
It always bugs me when the data conflicts or is ambitious, decisions are being made. They’re not the only one.
In motorhomes we usually put dual inverters in between the frame rails toward the rear of a baggage compartment. Best of luck!