Isolation AC to DC Phoenix Inverter

Hello all,

Trying to find a safe standalone inverter for a small stationary dwelling (Australia), looking at the 2000VA phoenix.

Looking at page 5 of the Inverter Smart manual ( https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Inverter_Smart/106668-Inverter_PH_Smart__VE_Direct_and_SUN-pdf-en.pdf ) it says AC output is not isolated from DC input.

How is this any different from the cheap camping inverters that have the safety issues outlined in this article? Kevin Boone: Why your cheap mains inverter could kill you

Is it necessary to earth the battery negative for the system to be safe? (This is not required under Australian regs) See Wiring Unlimited guide p 66.

I’m very keen to clarify this before ordering anything.

Cheers
M

Something similar here below…
Can I mix AC & DC grounding? - Q&A and troubleshooting - Victron Community (victronenergy.com)

1 Like

Exactly that could create the shock hazard !
This is why they say in the manual: The ground wire “G“ that connects the output neutral to ground must be re-positioned to a “dummy” terminal, if a floating output is required.

Thanks for your answer, I’m still a bit confused. Does that mean the phoenix is the same as the cheap camping inverters? In other words that there’s no isolation between dc input and ac output?

Yeah, I saw the advice for the floating output too. But if you separate neutral and earth on the ac side any RCD protection won’t work. The idea is to use normal AS3000 earthing, as it’s a stationary dwelling, not an RV or a boat. There’s always going to be a fridge running, so running any other Class 1 appliance (or someone touching the batteries or DC side) brings the risk of electric shock (if it’s internally set up the same as the inverters in the link). I know you can minimise this risk by wearing shoes and being mindful of not creating a path for current, but I think most people wouldn’t want to live like that, it’s nice to be able to relax inside your home.

Yes, for the first question. As with any SMPS.

For the second, generally speaking, the DC-minus is connected to (metallic) enclosure for many devices.
If you also leave connected the AC-Neutral to AC-Ground (which is also connected to the enclosure), you’ll “nullify” the galvanic separation of the (HF) transformer inside.

If you still want AC-N to AC-G connection, then leave the DC side totally floating, without any connection whatsoever to earth ground.
But depending on jurisdiction, this may not be possible…
DC side should be masked anyway, why touching it? It should be out of reach… :innocent:

Okay, thanks for that Alex.

I will go with the Phoenix for the situation. I believe it is safe if you have AC Earth and Neutral bonded and an earth stake and a RCD on the inverter output, as close as possible to the inverter. DC side will be protected from touch to the degree you would the AC side and anyone working on it will know to switch off inverter before working on DC side.

How’s that sound to you?

Sounds good.
Also take a look at what Guy is saying here: Can I mix AC & DC grounding? - #2 by guystewart

see above

Thanks Franco, always great to have some data from an actual inverter. Best to only use one earthed appliance at a time with that inverter! For camping it should be okay, but in a more permanent situation, if you have a standard fridge, that’s your one earthed appliance, so that’s a bit limiting.