I have the following grid tied setup:
Multiplus 2 -8kva
Ac coupled Solaredge 5kw solar inverter(7,81kwp)
I personally do not have enough solar to run all electric devices in the winter. What would happen in case of a blackout in the evening, Would the Victron just suck all the juice out of the battery, turn off the inverter and then wait for the grid to reconnect again as the solar inverter will not turn on if it has no AC.
Or is there some sort of protocol that would make sure the victron keeps a bit of juice to jump start the inverter when there is enough solar power to power all the devices and slowly charge the batteries again?
I couldn’t find this information anywhere. Hope someone knows the behaviour.
Ok if on ac out 1 and programmed right the inverter will just start again when the sun comes up,
if you run your battery completly empty and the multiplus turns off then you have no pv inverter power, but do you really run your battery flat at night when there is no grid?
Heey Marc,
Ik doe het even in het nederlands want dat ben jij ook gewoon. Ik heb een 45kwh batterij dus in principe heb ik niet het probleem dat mijn batterij te klein is om een paar nachten te overbruggen. Maar met warmtepomp aan is het verbruik als snel 40kwh per dag op de koude dagen. Het scenario wat in mijn hoofd rond gaat is een scenario waarin het net meerdere dagen offline is. Ik denk dat 99,9% van alle consumenten niet genoeg stroom produceren in de winter om de batterijen elke dag voldoende op te kunnen laden om de nacht door te komen, helemaal als je met een warmte pomp verwarmt.
Mijn hele meterkast zit op de critical loads en in het geval van een lange stroomstoring hou je wel rekening met verbruik. Maar toch vraag ik me dus af of er een of ander programma is wat er voor kan zorgen dat ik wel genoeg stroom hou om er voor te zorgen dat de inverter sochtends aan kan schakelen als er weer zonnestroom is, want voor zover ik weet, zal de inverter niet inschakelen als de batterijen eenmaal te diep zijn ontladen, en dan zou je in het ergste geval als het net nooit meer online komt nooit meer stroom in je batterijen krijgen omdat de zonnenomvormer geen spanning detecteert en dus ook niet meer gaat laden.
Snap je wat ik bedoel?
Translate:
I have a 45 kWh battery, so in principle I don’t have the problem of my battery being too small to cover a few nights. But with heating on, consumption quickly reaches 40 kWh per day on cold days. The scenario going around in my head is one in which the network is offline for several days. I think that 99.9% of all consumers are not enough electricity producers in winter to be able to charge the batteries enough every day to get through the night, especially if you heat with a heat pump.
My entire meter cupboard is on the critical loads and in the event of a long power outage, you take consumption into account. But I still wonder if there is some program that can ensure that I have enough power to ensure that the inverter can switch on in the morning when there is solar power again, as far as I know, it will do not switch on the inverter once the batteries are too deeply discharged, and then in the worst case if the grid never comes online again, you would never get any more power in your batteries because the solar inverter does not detect any voltage and will therefore no longer charge.
Yes i understand what the Victron does, It will keep the inverter on for aslong as it hits one of the parameters, which for me usually is a low voltage on a cell. But take a situation like tonight DESS will keep 31% in my battery, but in general it can go as low as 10% which is the minimum soc i’m using in case the grid fails. But let’s say I do not alter my consumption. This is roughly 14 kwh I can still use before I fully deplete my batteries and lets say I do so before the next morning. Then the victron will shut off its inverter as the batteries will give a SOC or low voltage warning. at for example 6am. Even if tomorrow would be a miracle day and generate 40kwh on my solar panels, then my inverter would still not kick in as the battery charge is to low and the solaredge inverter will only put out 230v when it detects a voltage again. So that’s why I wonder, if there is some sort of possibility that would kill the 230v Ac power to my house at for example 5% SOC or 5 am such that it can still occassionally turn on the AC Out to probe if the Solar inverter is producing enough power to both power the loads in our home, but also charge up the batteries again. Such that atleast I do not get in some sort of Loop where the victron can’t power on because of the solaredge not providing power and the solaredge can’t turn on because the victron is not providing power.
I dont use dess, only ess my minimum is 40% soc and thats in my case enough to run about a day or 3-4 at minimum loads without solar, but i understand your potential problem!
Dont really have a solution maybe you can do something with node red?
And i understand mppt’s would solve this issue, but the solaredge system is already 5 years old and is working perfectly fine except for the dc to ac to dc losses and potentially this
Ahahah yeah, it’s not something I worry about as the grid in the Netherlands is exceptionally reliable, but in case of some sort of dystopian apocalypse or world war 3, getting into this loop is definitely something to worry about from the period of september till march. Luckily i also still have seperate batteries that could jumpstart the 48v system in case of such an outage. I’m currently not using node red as the system performs superb and as it is only a single phase it is also very simple. But there are definitely a few automation steps I could add if at somepoint i have time spare, but as a physics student, spare time is a luxery I do not have right now.
I am having the same questions. 3x mp2-48-5000 and 20kwh pylontech.
I also have a car with V2L capabilities and a generator and consider trying the following. When all Totally blackout i want to shut off everything. Remove the network cable from CerboGX and the link between the 3 inverters. Than put 230V from the car (or a generator) to ac-in of the L1 inverter and use the fysical switch at the bottom to charger mode. Than i hope that the inverter gets some charge in the pylontech’s and after some hours connect everything back to original to power the system up.
In a situation like that I don’t think you are required to disconnect your CerboGX and the link? Or does the 3 phase Victron turn off all phases if only 1phase has power?
I would assume Victron remains active even if 1 or 2 phases are down, right?
If this assumption is wrong. I think that you could use your car to jumpstart your battery by using a single phase to get enough charge. I luckily have a fairly simple setup with only 1 phase. So i’m not familiar with Victron on 3 Phases.
Unfortunately, if i switch off 1 inverter al 3 are going down. The inverters are connected to eachother by canbus and programmed with a mk3 usb device for 3 phase setup
I have heard you can program the system that, when 1 phase input fails, the remaining 2 can use the grid to charge the battery and maintain the 3 phase working but thats not what i need.
I want to charge my battery from a single phase source when all grid fails.
Yes, but my point is you don’t have to disconnect any of the victron logic. You can leave all 3 of them running. In a situation where your battery gets fully depleted and there is no power from grid for an extended period of time, I would assume you could just wire your car into on of the 3 Ac in puts and then flick the switch on your car. One of your victrons would receive power as if the grid is back active on a single phase and I would assume that this victron would spring back to life, but potentially does not charge the batteries, but I would expect atleast to start pass through to activate your solar panels again.
Maybe you are correct that if the other two victrons are down it doesn’t work, but this is an easy test. Discharge all batteries to 1% SOC turn off all grid connections, wait for the 1% SOC to run out and you experience the blackout we are talking about, Turn on 1 phase and see what happens. If this jumpstarts your entire system you are not required to disconnect all the Victron logic to get 3 phases running again. In case all Victrons remain off, you would have to disconnect everything, potentially even program 1 of your your victrons as a single phase unit, charge up your batteries enough, program them back to 3 phase and run them like you used to.
Maybe the easiest (hoe schrijf je dat eigenlijk) solution is to change one of the 6 solar inverters to a Victron MPPT.
The only thing i have to do in that case is wait for some Sun…
I’ve considered to swap the solar edge aswell, but mostly because I have 7,81 kwp and only a 5kw solar inverter. Not to mention all the losses to go from (dc to )ac to dc. Especially Victron has a very poor efficiency when it comes to roundtrip efficiency in my opinion. The newer Solar RS would solve this problem, but it’s a bit small for single phase and it is far from battle proven in DESS mode. The problem i have with mppt charge controllers is that I currently use 22 panels on a single string with 22 optimizers. I do not have left over pvc pipes to route extra dc wires and there is signifcant differences in panel performance, due to several different orientations and angles.
I think that besides the MPPT solution, there is only manual options: either switch off the multis in the night when the SOC is at 2% or 5%, and turn them back on when the sun is up; or let them run till the BMS shuts off, and in the morning put the BMS in emergency mode (which at least the JK-BMS has, it bypasses some of the voltage limits for a limited time), which should be enough to get your AC PV up and charging…
