I am not quite familiar with pairing a smart charger and an MPPT so I have a question:
If I have plans to have a 12vdc battery and an MPPT 100/50 but I want to have a shore power option for a remote enclosure (which normally we draw the loads off the batteries and replenish from the charger on an AC system) then what are my powering configuration options?
I know we can get a Phoenix charger to connect with a VC direct cable to see the charger status and this appears to be the only way to see the charger from VRM since the others are Bluetooth only correct? If thats the case is there a way to take a Bluetooth charger like the Blue Smart 12/25 or 12/30 and run the battery output into the solar controller to see the charging voltage?
Realistically I would like to see the circuit say for example 110v in and 14vdc out but ill take what I can. Just trying to see whats possible or do I need to shell out the extra money for the Phoenix to get that data?
If you have a Venus GX device - for remote viewing, then the solar charger will connect to that, and you will be able to see the battery voltage - at lest the dc voltage on the Batt terminals of the MPPT which may not be quite the same.
If you don’t have the GX device, then the Battery voltage can be seen by connecting to a smart MPPT and using VE Connect.
If you need to see the battery voltage and current, then get a smart shunt .
The ‘smart’ mains charger will not connect to the MPPT by Bluetooth. However the connect app will be able to connect to that too, to show the charging voltage and current.
Thanks for the response, I guess I am asking for example: If I wanted to see input voltage from shore power (this is a remote unit) then I need to have an Orion Charger so it can connect to VE Direct cable?
If I just wanted to see that its connected (voltage positive) is there a way to do that with a Bluetooth charger instead, saving the money?
I am using CerboGX devices, not sure the difference in Venus and Cerbo (I think its metrics and port related) but thats where I stand. I assume Regardless Orion can connect to Venus or Cerbo correct? I would overall really like to see my actual power input if possible to determine if there was an “under voltage” event.
Your question is not very clear to me, sorry if I misunderstood it.
I’m not familiar with Orions but since you have the Cerbo GX, any charger that connects to the Cerbo should work, if you use VRM. Venus can mean two different things: The software that runs on your Cerbo and other GX devices (this is what @MikeD was referring to) or a specific GX device (Venus GX) which has the same role as your Cerbo but different internals and ports.
If you already have a Victron charger/inverter, you might not need anything further: it can be just a matter of setup and settings.
Basically, depending on your needs, you can use VRM as a phone app or via any browser. You can use VictronConnect via BT or via VRM (example screenshot attached). Note that some chargers (not all) require a dongle to support BT.
So for more clarification this will be looked at from VRM remotely, I know I would be able to see the smart shunt and the MPPT from a VE.Direct cable via CerboGX, I am more curious how I can see the charger from VRM remotely?
I am assuming my only option is an Orion Charger with a Ve.Direct cable or is there an ability to use any charger lets say and bring the input into the MPPT and have it show a positive voltage? I was asking if there was a way to connect for example direct to an MPPT as inbound reading or Bluetooth to CerboGX to keep from spending the extra money for Orion charger.
Also I assume if I am needing something like a DC/DC converter that a VE.Direct connection on that will also be useful correct?
The Cerbo is a physical Gx device, it runs Venus as an operating system, there are other platforms (hardware) that can also run Venus - these are used mainly by developers.
If you want to remotely view the AC voltage at the remote station, the best option for that would be an Energy meter that can connect to the Cerbo, using CAN bus e.g. Energy Meters VM-3P75CT, ET112, ET340, EM24 Ethernet & EM540
Is that suggested over using for example an Orion Charger thats 120vac with a VE.Direct cable to the CerboGX to see data? Or is this just an alternate way to use a 3rd party power supply input and monitor the voltage?
Realistically all I care about is seeing A: 120vac present or under voltage alert. or B (less desirable): Voltage is positive (ie: Voltage meets a threshold) or it doesnt. I know I can do “B” with a web relay controller but I am trying to stay in Victron as much as possible.
I am using CerboGX and I have flashed one Cerbo to Venus OS Large once but thats my only experience.
I’m just suggesting the energy meters as a possible alternative. I don’t use the Orion charger, so I can’t confirm that the AC data is readable this way.
Seems to me that a shunt to measure battery voltage and current would be sufficient, but that is up to what you want.
Appreciate the info Mike. What are our thoughts on a BMS connected battery with RJ45 vs a shunt? Is a shunt a CYA overall and more accurate than lets say a single battery RJ45 direct connection such as Sun Fun or Epoch? Any ideas or suggestions? Ive only used the Shunt with SLA and not Lithium. Also the shunt only needs to be equivalent of the max expected draw right? Like if I have a 315ah battery you could use a 300A shunt because draw may be 10A only?
Battery: If you are using a lithium battery with BMS coms, then this must be compatible with the Cerbo’s recognised CAN data format. Then a shunt is not needed. see Battery Compatibility [Victron Energy] Neither of the battery makes you mention are on the list, so compatibility is not guaranteed. A connected BMS can also control the charge current (of the MPPT) for better balancing.
If using a different type of battery, (SLA, Lithium) then the shunt is the simplest means of measuring the battery state. This gives you voltage, current Soc etc. you also get an aux dc voltage channel for free.
Shunt does only need to match the max current for either draw or charge - so a 300A would cover most small applications. The lower the shunt current typically enhances sensitivity - the smallest measured current and the accuracy of the measurement.
Makes sense. I know Sun Fun has a BMS firmware made for the CerboGX that communicates with it directly. I will look at the list also to see what else there is but I know of others using the battery apparently with no issues just wanted to see if the shunt was absolutely necessary or a good secondary to have in case the battery technology ever changes ie from a lithium BMS to like a SLA. Will it hurt to have the shunt in line still or will it potentially cause a conflict with a BMS? Hypothetically speaking that is…
So I spoke wrong earlier it wasnt the Orion charger it is the IP43 Smart Charger 12/30/1+1. I am looking to take 120v in and be able to see the charger to ensure it is taking in power or if it is short on power. So these apparently use a VE.Direct cable and thats what I was referring to, should I be able to see that if I am using that in a Cerbo GX vs using a Bluetooth only one like the Blue Smart 120v 15A charger? This being remote, Bluetooth is out of the picture. Sorry for the confusion.
If it has a VE direct port, you may be in luck. You will certainly be able to see the output of the charger.
As far as Im aware, whilst the Cerbo has bluetooth, it won’t connect to other Victron bluetooth devices - however, I’m no expert in the Bluetooth field.
VE direct specification does not have a general register for AC input.
I don’t use IP43 but it should work with VRM remote monitoring. Are you sure it’s not an overkill? The options suggested by @MikeD should be cheaper but they can’t charge.
If you have CAN managed 3rd party batteries (as opposed to only officially supported batteries), then strictly speaking, you don’t need a shunt, unless your BMS is crappy and you desire better accuracy.
With a Multiplus or a Quattro, I know you can control the amount of power drawn from shore power. I don’t know how that works with IP43.
I was strictly trying to see what the shore power is like remotely to determine if the charger or circuit is healthy thus the question. I know I could use a 3rd party charger or Bluetooth only Blue Power charger however if all I can see is voltage present or not since there is not a VE.Direct cable it puts me in the boat of the unknown. Currently the only setup I am running is a MultiPlus 2 and I can see my power on it, thus if possible would be nice.
As far as the batteries go, these batteries are getting alot of talk and have been talked about here before just not sure if the shunt is a requirement or something I should have in case I change the technology.
