Hey all,
New here and I appreciate all the help in advance.
I’m being told, on another forum, I can’t parallel two 15k Quattros to acheive single phase 30kw of power in the USA because of 2 hots and a neutral. They are saying it will only make 240v power and then I’ll need a auto transformer to achieve the 120v side needs.
I just need clarification. I need 30kw I have 200 amp grid service now and Diesel generator back up.
I need something from Victron that will do this.
Thanks, Jason
I normally answer those questions on the other forum, but I missed your thread. The advice you got was mostly correct.
European single-phase power and North American split-phase power are two fundamentally different power systems.
Yes, you can use a 15k 230V European inverter in the US, but you need an autotransformer to make 120V. The AT is limited to 28A of neutral current, which will present an unexpected problem if it disconnects due to overheating when your 120V loads are out of balance more than that. You may be able to parallel two or three autotransformers to help, but I’ve never done that, and never heard of anyone doing it.
Here is a plan I did for a 40 kVA system in the US using four 10k 120V Quattros. It is just a plan, I haven’t built it. It is going to be big, expensive, and hot.
https://diysolarforum.com/threads/powerhouse-planning-for-off-grid-victron.109546/post-1513638
I seen a guy in Australia using 4 Quattro 15kw off grid. It’s just crazy to me as big as Victron is that they wouldnt make a system for the US.
Mind blowing actually.
Thanks for your response.
My post is at the end of the FlexBoss21 being loud post.
I think you and I have interacted on the other forum, where I have essentially this same setup currently installed.
On the 15kW models, the datasheet does say “Can be adjusted to 60 HZ . 120 V models available on request”… I wonder if anyone has actually asked their dealer for this. I needed 200A of pass-through and UL listing, so I didn’t dig into it, but OP may consider doing so.
That’s news to me! i’ll ask around about that. thanks.
I’d be curious to hear what you discover.
Do you really use 30kW of power? That’s a lot of power, even if you have an all-electric home. Is it regular or rare that you need that much power? The Quattro 48/10000 120V has a huge idle draw - at least 200W. This is much higher than their published numbers. I have not had a chance to put a 10k on the bench to do accurate measurements, but you can see my table below. If you need two AC inputs, consider multiple Quattro 48/5000 in parallel split-phase configuration. It will pass through your entire 200A service. This is a good option if you only need 30kW occasionally. You can use PowerAssist along with your generator to get 30kW if you really need that much power. If you don’t need two AC inputs, then consider the MultiPlus-II 48/5000. It has an idle draw about 2x less that the Quattro 48/5000.
Feel free to reach out to us if you want help with design.
I don’t speak for Victron, but I have had many, many conversations with my Victron reps and executives. The answer is always some variation of how difficult and time consuming it is to get UL certifications in the US. If I provide them a LONG list of Chinese companies who manage to do it on a regular basis then my posts get deleted or ignored if in public, or a polite Dutch “maybe some day”.
In light of this, I would suggest that there are high quality options in the USA market that can run off-grid or fully grid interactive and aren’t just relabeled Chinese brands with crappy software sold from Texas. IMO, beyond 20kVA, Victron is not a great choice for the US market, though we have certainly built systems that are larger. The inefficiencies escalate quickly outisde the MultiPlus-II line, which is limited to 5kVA each in the USA. It’s a shame.
I don’t need mine UL listed because I don’t have to have inspection or permitting where I’m at.
I appreciate the well thought out response.
Thanks, Jason
Your insurance company might not see it that way. Good luck with your project!
Home insurance? I don’t have that. My home is paid for. Even if I did have insurance they would never know it. I live in the boonies. When I was insured I just call some random insurance company and tell them how much coverage I want and they email me a policy. Insurance companies have never stepped foot on my land.
I average 42 per day over the course of a year looking back over 3 year history.
So what size you suggest for off grid?
I don’t think that number of 200W idle is correct for Quattro 10k 120V. But it is at least double what the spec sheet says, and that should be updated.
In Victrons defense just looking at ul 1741 over the years, they had 2nd edition, 3rd edition, then supplement SA, most recently SB, and apparently now SC which is more for evse charger vehicle to grid. Just a never ending treadmill can’t blame them for basically throwing in the towel.
SA, SB, and SC can be handled with software changes, I believe. I’ve been selling Victron for five years and my reps have been there much longer. I love Victron, but I will not defend their dragging their feet. It’s been many years of the same excuses. The best I have received from them is “it’s just not a priority”. That’s fair. I just wish they’d make some definitive statement. But, it doesn’t really matter. As much as we’d like to stay True Blue, it’s just not possible in the USA. But, I’ll stop flogging this dead horse and wish you all a Happy New Year!
P.S. If anyone has a Quattro 48/10000 120V and a high-quality benchtop power supply, please test the idle standby consumption and send me the data. I’ll add it to my tracking sheet and share it. Contact me if you want to clarify the testing methodology.
Thanks!
The changes may be able to be done in the firmware, but the inverter itself has to then be resubmitted for testing if they are going from say ul1741 3rd edition to ul1741sb. NYS and California among others no longer accept 1741sa, has to be sb for grid connection approval, since 2023 I think.
Yes, SB is what we’ve been asking for. I haven’t looked into SC at all so I’ll need to do that.
