zero feedin Image

zero feedin

Zero feed-in with ESS, SMA and no AC-IN usage

I just install a Multiplus-II in Papua New Guinea where blackouts and brownouts happen on a daily basis. It is installed on my house which is located on a college campus with other houses. We have enough sun here that I can run disconnected from the grid which I have been doing since the install was completed. Batteries are still 70% in the morning and fully charged by 11:30am. I want to use my excess solar to assist the campus. So my goal is to:

  1. Each morning, charge my batteries to 100% solely from solar before sending power to the campus.
  2. Once the batteries are 100% charged, send the extra solar to the campus which is connected to AC-IN.
  3. Never use the AC-IN to power my house or charge my batteries unless my batteries are depleted.
  4. Never use my batteries to supply power to the campus.
  5. Achieve zero feed-in to the grid.

I have the added complexity of another solar system on someone else's house as noted in the diagram. I understand that the GX can monitor the SMA by using the WebConnect module to help with the frequency shift power control.

It sounds like a fairly simple scenario, but with all of the options available in the ESS assistant, and the possibility of damaging equipment that is not mine, I want to make sure it is setup correctly. As far as having a qualified installer....well we are located way out in the bush, about 450km from the nearest authorized installer. It would take someone a plane ride to get here.

I have downloaded and installed the ESS Assistant. But when it started asking about the frequencies of the other inverter, I uninstalled it and ended up here asking this question. I do have permission from the owner of the inverter to move forward, but I am looking for some advice on what settings to use, both in the ESS assistant and the ESS settings in the GX (raspberry pi) and how to properly interface to the SMA.

It will be possible to feed-in to the grid once both systems are online which we are not allowed to do in Papua New Guinea. So, I also have a Mutliplus-II current transformer for my house and an ET112 energy meter with Zigbee transmitters for the campus meter.

Missing from the picture is a GX (raspberry pi), Lynx power in module, and Smart Shunt.

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cobraphil asked
shaneyake commented ·

2 Answers

Victron multiplus12/1600 as Grid with gti and limiter

Hello I have a sun-1000gtil2 with limiter which works fine but I have no use anymore in my house for it. ( have bigger one’s doing all the job)

So I liketo use it in my Gartenhauses where I have a multiplus. My question is:

Since the sun inverter is not 100% limiting and Sometimes feeds 5-10 Watts back when loads change quickly, I wonder if this would destroy the 12/1600 multiplus or this is not a big deal? Or it even just charges the battery and I worry to much ;)

Thank you for the answer

wudycool asked
wudycool answered ·

3 Answers

Throttled Fronius wastes up to 90% of capacity - improvement required on Zero-feed-in


Hi All,

With this documentation I like to demonstrate that Fronius Zero-feed-in algorithm ignores up to 90% of available energy in a zero-feed-configuration, although all produced energy could be fed into battery at that moment.

@Victron&Fronius-Developers: Please read this article and translate improvements into next software releases.

Generic problem description

My PV panel power balance between MPPT-fed and Fronius-fed energy ratio is about 45% vs. 55% (my complete topology is described below). This screenshot demonstrates that this ratio can be also effectively generated and loaded into AC-IN and battery as long as the grid is disconnected from MultiPlus-II.

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Only 30 seconds before when grid was still connected, I took that screenshot. You see that MPPT has nearly the same output, but the Fronius delivered only 28% of its actually currently possible capacity. Since the previous screenshot was taken before, it demonstrates clearly that at that moment there was no restriction of the battery taking additional energy (charging limit of 242A current allowed by BYD at that moment of time).

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Frist conclusion
Fronius Zero-feed-in feature in Victron ESS wastes plenty energy (>75% in average – up to 90% in peak)


Closer analysis
Following analysis demonstrates that Fronius Zero feed-in mechanism only works as long as you have a steadily deviating power consumption. Otherwise it wastes plenty energy.

1. AC load on AC-OUT consumption is currently low at 249W and Fronius feeds in with 934W only (compared to screenshot in step 3 you see that was is only 50% of the available capacity at that moment).

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2. Switch on a mentionable load on AC-OUT1 activates the Fronius within a few seconds to leverage full available capacity.

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3. After having switched off the additional load, Fronius continues to produce similar but already slight lower volume. The produced capacity is fed mainly into battery.

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4. As long as there is no peak any more on AC-OUT1, Fronius lowers its production steadily down. In that example its returned to 23% of currently available capacity.
Battery SOC was 52%, the currently applied current 52,9A with readiness to take 242A at that moment.

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Expectation
Please improve zero-feed-in feature so that also battery will be effectively loaded with available capacity on Fronius attached PVs.

My environment

  • MultiPlus-II 48/5000/70-50 in 3-phase (firmware 477) with a ESS zero feed-in configuration
  • ESS zero feed-in configuration
  • Multiphase regulation on single phase
  • Grid setpoint defined at 80W > currently returned to 60W again
  • Fronius Symo 6.0-3-M (firmware 3.16.7-1) with 6.030 kWp attached (55% of total PV) – connected to AC-OUT1 (critical loads) – no additional smart meter - sunspec activated
  • Victron MPPT VE.can 250/100 rev2 (firmware 3.02) connected via VE-Bus with 5.025kWp attached (45% of total PV)
  • PV modules all with absolutely identical direction and no shadowing
  • BYD LV 15.4 (allowed charging and discharging current during the test procedure 243A)
    BMS connected via CAN-bus (firmware 1.16)
  • VenusGX (firmware 2.60) > currently tested with 2.62-beta5
  • Any component with latest firmware as of today

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thomasw-1 asked
mr-g answered ·

6 Answers

Doesn't set Feed-in limiting active

Hi Victron community!

I try to set ESS with Venus GX, Multiplus II 48/5000 and Fronius Primo 5.0-1.

I made the settings described in the documentation, but Feed-in limiting active shows No.


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If switch on "Data export via modbus - tcp" in Fronius that in remote console in Fronius / Device/ Connection solarapi changed to sunspec and appeared string"Zero feed-in power limit 5000W".

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So I guess that Venus GX connected with Fronius via Modbus.

And I noticed when in Fronius switch on "Inverter control via Modbus" than in remote console in Fronius/ Status changed from "Running (MPPT)" to "Running (Throttled)".

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But in any case, Feed-in limiting active is No.

What could be the matter?

Andrey asked
josephm edited ·

3 Answers

Use GX Energy Meter for SolarEdge

Hello

I have integrated my SolarEdge SE16K to my Victron 3 Phase system with a GX device. Now I want that the SE16K uses my energy meter from the GX-Device to do the corresponding energy reduction.

How do I manage that.

Regards

Christian

chris-bs asked
chris-bs edited ·

0 Answers

Applicability of feed-in limit in a mix SMA/Victron system

I would like to confirm with you that the recently added grid feed-in limit function would be applicable to my system. I cannot test it myself as I have not purchased all the hardware.

I have 3 grid-connected SMA inverters totaling 14kW while my house installation can handle 14.5kW max (63A/230V circuit breaker). I am looking to connect MultiplusII 5kW in grid-parallel configuration with additional PV panels connected via both DC-coupling and AC-coupling (Fronius) to mainly server the critical loads.

I understand that in order to export energy from Victron to the grid in a controlable way I will need to install Energy meters on both the main line and on SMA inverters for Victron to know the current grid load and PV/SMA production.

Now, I noticed that during off-summer months my SMA inverters rarely exceed 10-12kW production. I would like to know if I can use Victron and its grid feed-in limit to set the maximum feed-in of both Victron and SMA at exactly 14kW ? (i.e. top-off SMA production with Victron power, if I understand correctly Victron cannot regulate SMA in a grid-parallel setup, correct?).


In above is correct, question #2: In reality, how strict is the realization of feed-in limit ? Is it possible that the system will exceed the 14kW limit for a brief moment and trip the main circuit breaker (14.5kW) ?


Thanks.



Maciek Haranczyk asked
Maciek Haranczyk answered ·

2 Answers

Zero feed in not working

Have installed a ESS system with a fronius primo 8.2.1 on the ac-out of a victron quatro 8000 and have disabled feed in as the grid does not permit it. some sunny days when batteries are charged and not much load the house it will export to the grid although the as the photos show fronius zero feed in is active, but when i check vrm and error message shows on PV status but when i check fronius solar web no fault is active.

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dubzy777 asked
michael-yasay edited ·

2 Answers

Feed in power displayed as AC Load

Hi

I have a multiplus 2 5kVA , Cerbo, Carlo Cavassi, MPPT 150/70 and Gel batteries 170ah

Batteries are set to "keep batteries charged".

When I set up the system to feed excess power to the grid, the power that is fed back is added to AC loads and the grid displays 3W. The utility meter shows that power is fed back to the utility but the grid indication stays positive 3W.

Any ideas what I can look for?

@mvader (Victron Energy)

@Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) - user overview - Victron Community

@Matthias Lange

@Guy Stewart

@Matthijs @Johannes Boonstra @Fronius Danmark

martinh asked
martinh commented ·

0 Answers

Grid-Tie Solar AC feed-in not limited ZERO as requested

VRM Portal ID: f045da7d75b0

Hi,

I have enable AC Solar excess feed-in (not Fronius but same frequency controls) and fixed the value to 0W as my county/country does not allow feed-in. If this is not set the AC is not used for internal non-critical AC loads.

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If the AC input power is switched off, the Victron successfully limits the AC Feed-in as expected, however if the AC is present, feed-in occurs that is not expected/allowable.

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Successful AC control on 08-10-2020:

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Please advise.

Regards

Jan Hurter


yoda101 asked
Mark answered ·

2 Answers

ESS can't be used in my country ?

Hi. I'm living in Madagascar. I have a 5kVA Multiplus, a cerbo, 2*150/35 MPPTs, 2790 Wc PV array and I wait to be delivered lithium batteries.

There is "nothing" about feed-in here, so let's say that it is prohibited. No way to get the grid code standart and "password" required in ESS setting.

I read that "If you leave this setting as 'None', the system will not supply battery energy to support local AC loads when the grid is connected. You do need to change this setting even if it is your intention not to export DC energy to the grid." That's why my question : Can't I use ESS (any of the 3 modes) ? Is there any alternative for my need ?

I want to use the grid power only when power of PV is not sufficent to power load and SOC less than a specified value.

Thanks

Manda asked
Manda answered ·

4 Answers

BlueSolar Charger MPPT 150/70 (VE.Can) not gridfeeding anymore.

Since 13 Sept 2020 my BlueSolar Charger MPPT 150/70 (VE.Can) stopped gridfeeding. It only use the solar panels until the battery is full. The PV inverter still gridfeeds.

I suspect my Colour Control GX's firmware was updated. I see the it currently has v 2.6 and it was released on 2020-09-06. I went through all the settings that could affect it and it all seems ok.

The mppt is also on the newest frimware.

If there is no fix can I roll back to previous firmware and where can I get it?

Attached my layout. And the graphs showing the date it stopped. also relevant settings.

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dolflombard asked
dolflombard edited ·

1 Answer

Fronius zero feed-in with DC Coupled solar

Hello,


I would like to limit my Fronius Galvo export to zero , but have "Feed-in excess solar charger power" turned on as to only use the DC coupled solar for export, not the AC coupled.


Would this work?


Thanks!

Isaac Shannos asked
Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) commented ·

2 Answers

Fronius Zero feed kann nicht aktiviert werden / Fronius Zero feed in can't be activated

Hallo,

Nun hab ich es geschafft, das ESS System in VE-Config zu konfugurieren und im CCGX zu aktivieren.

Folgende Komponenten sind im System:
Victron EM24 RS485
Victron Color Control GX
1x Victron Multiplus II 48/3000-32
Fronius Symo 17.5-3-M
4x Pylontech US2000

Nun habe ich aber das Problem, dass ich Fronius Zero Feed-in im CCGX nicht aktivieren kann, da es dort nicht steht.

Am Fronius ist Modbus mit tcp und Sunspec int+SF ist aktiviert.

Wenn ich den VE-Bus vom CCGX abstecke und Einstellung mit MK3USB am Multi vornehme fährt der Fronius komplett mit der Einspeisung runter (Throttled), also irgendwas scheint ja zu kommunizieren.

Fehlt hier noch irgendeine Einstellung ?


English:

I set up the ESS System with VEConfig and started the CCGX.

Components of the System:
Victron EM24 RS485
Victron Color Control GX
1x Victron Multiplus II 48/3000-32
Fronius Symo 17.5-3-M
4x Pylontech US2000

Now I have following problem, that the Fronius Zero feed in cant be activated in the CCGX because I can find it there.

Fronius is connected by Modbus and the settings are done (Modbus tcp and sunspec int+SF)

If I disconnect the VE-Bus from CCGX the fronius is throtteling to ca. 50W.


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Wäre super, wenn mir hier jemand helfen könnte! :-)

Danke!!


Gruß

Stephan

stephan-wittmann asked
jfleissner commented ·

2 Answers

How I control Grid feeding and Battery charging by Aux2

I am using Victron Quattro 48/10000VA. I have controlled GRID feeding (limited) and Battery Charging(limited) without SOC controlled by auxiliary Input (AUX1 or 2 ).

deepaksahu23 asked
albert-vd-westhuizen answered ·

1 Answer

2 x Fronius Symo -> Zero Feedin not working on one Symo

Hi Forum !

i have expanded my system with a second Fronius Symo. I used zero feedin for over a year successfull with the first symo. Both Datamanagers have absolutely the same settings but the second symo is not working with zero feed in. So at the moment one (the old) inverter is doing his zero feedin job nicely .... the other is feedin in if my batteries are full and the first inverter ramped down to zero.

The only difference i can see is, that the connection type of the working inverter is "sunspec" and the not working inverter is "solarapi". Did i miss something where i can change this ? I can not find anything regarding inverter connection type in the venus settings or the datamanager settings. Also maybe the connection type has nothing to do with my problem.

I hope someone can help me out ....

Thanks a lot !

Jens


stxshadow asked
stxshadow commented ·

3 Answers

ESS, Fronius zero feed in and grid setpoint negative setpoint without draining batteries?

Hi I have an ESS system where ive incorporated a fronius primo 8.2kW inverter i have all communication set up and working for zero feed in, however i want to allow export of 16 amps or 3.68kW as this is acceptable, I assumed i would be able to set the gridpoint to -3600 and it would allow the inverter to put upto this amount out onto the grid before limiting output. However the victron actually started pulling power from the batteries to export 3600 watts to the grid. Is there a way around this as the customer can actually gain a tarriff from exported units but it makes no sense to drain the batteries into the grid.

Thanks Jack

jacko asked
dayandnight commented ·

2 Answers

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