Bonjour ,je souhaite optimiser la production sur l’autoconsommation en journée en me servant des batteries qui compléteraient le manque de puissance sur de courte utilisation. Ex sèche cheveux, Grille pain, lave vaisselle .....
Par la suite le surplus serais renvoyé dans les batteries qui sont déjà programmer pour être rechargé en journée et déchargé le soir SOC 70% à partir du moment ou il y a plus de production suffisante pour couvrir le besoin.
Actuellement la production est consommée et le surplus renvoyée sur le réseau une fois les batteries chargée à 100%. Le réseau compense, le manque quand il y a une demande plus forte que la production solaire.
J'ai le Transformateur de courant de 100 A : 50 mA pour MultiPlus-II qui permet d'implémenter les fonctions PowerControl et PowerAssist et d'optimiser l'autoconsommation grâce à une sonde de courant externe mais je ne sais pas comment faire la programmation.
Je suis sur un multi-plus II ,venus GX, sur cette configuration réseau.
[image]Merci pour votre aide.
I have a Multiplus 24/5000 that I am using to run the dive compressor on my boat (2.7kw) and a Honda 2kw generator connected to the AC1 input to provide the power when solar doesn’t keep up.
The Multiplus runs the dive compressor (3 phase motor driven by a single to three phase VFD) easily on its own.
When I’m not running the dive compressor, the multiplus honors the 8.5A input current limit I’ve set, however when I fire up the dive compressor it seems to ignore that limit and will try and pull all of the power from the generator, with little to no power assist.
Running the compressor at full speed the generator will overload and trip. If I lower the compressor speed with the VFD I can get it to a point where the genny can just keep up at around 10A, with the multiplus saying it’s assisting by maybe 200W on top of the 2000W from the gen. It's not ideal running the compressor this slow.
So it appears that power assist is doing a little bit, but no where near enough and the input current limit is being ignored. I can turn the input current limit right down to 4 and the behaviour doesn't change at all.
The minimum input current limit for my 5k is supposed to be 3.9A and I’m on firmware 430. Any ideas?
I would have a short question regarding the sizing of MultiPlus hardware:
If I would like to operate it only to make use of the PowerAssist functionality (e.g. to run a 230v device with 8 amp peak power on a max. 6 amps AC socket, but never off the grid on the inverter alone), what system sizing will I need then?
Is it okay to count only the additional power delivered by the inverter (e.g. the 800VA model, to top off the "missing" 2 amps plus losses), or will I nevertheless need to go for a larger model covering the complete overall power consumption?
Would be perfect if one of the experienced users could help with this question.
Thanks a lot!
The picture shows the connection and functions. Will this work? Any HELP! Thanks
I am planning out my first ground up installation with a Multiplus 3kVA in a cargo trailer buildout. I'm trying to figure out how to plan circuit breakers and panel layout for using both AC out 1&2.
Inverter input will draw from either a 30 amp shore inlet or a 3.5kW generator with 30 amp 120v output. On AC out 1 I will have one main and two branch GFCI circuits. On AC out 2 will be an air conditioner.
In theory, the powerassist will only come on to supply the inverter AC out 1 with power when necessary, such as when the AC unit is drawing a large load on the generator.
My question is, when 30 amp shore/gen power is present and the Multiplus offers power assist, is it possible for AC out 1 to output more than 30 amps of power? And in this case do I need to put a 50 amp main circuit breaker on the inverter AC out 1?
Ideally, I'd like to use a Progressive Dynamics PD5500 panel with two 30 amp main circuits to house both AC out 1 and AC out 2, but this is not possible if one of them needs to be fused at 50 amps.
Thanks for you input!
I am looking for a used Multiplus or Multiplus Compact to have Powerassist for providing power in a shed 150 metres away, usually the powerdraw will be under 50W, to run bigger startup currents the likes of a truck battery should do the trick. I would like to know whats the lowest required wattage that needs to be provided via AC. I am hoping around 250W because the cable will only be 1.5 sqare mm and the volts might otherwise drop too far.
Or am I better off using a charger and Inverter individually?
I have a very old Multi which cannot provide Powerassist. How can I determine whether it is available with the unit in question when I see it in an ad?
Might be just me, but I think my Multiplus has a louder audible sound when going into power assist than it used to.
Can someone who also uses this very helpful functionality confirm if theirs too makes this noise when going into power assist?
I am using a Multiplus 12/1600/70 with two 255AH batteries. Also, a 600W solar panel is connected to a MPPT 100/50. Also, I have a generator as a backup (3Kv Honda). A bmv is controlling the generator. It will turn on when soc drops to 50%.
The load is an instrument with 20A DC consumption. It is using 20A continuously.
The instrument is collecting data every second. I have some issue with lagging specially when the generator turn on. In this moment I have data every 10-20 seconds instead of every second.
The power assist is off on Multiplus configuration.
How can I fix this delay in the instrument. Should I turn the power assist on?
When the Multiplus is just invert from batteries and solar panels are able to charge the batteries, I don't have any problem.
I would appreciate if you could give me some advice.
Thanks in advance,
I'm planning an installation for a small workshop in a location where grid power is limited (230V/10A). There will be a constant load (heat pump) plus peak loads for a short period of time (say up to 6kW nominal power for a minute or so, when power tools are being used). I would like to supplement the available grid power with batteries for those peak loads.
I found the MultiPlus (48/5000/70-100) and it seems that its PowerAssist feature is exactly what I need. So far so good.
But — I could also add a small amount of solar to the mix. And that's where I don't understand things anymore.
Ideally, I'd like this ordering of power sources:
1. Use as much solar as is available at the moment.
2. Use the AC grid connection to pull up to 10A.
3. Use the batteries for anything on top of that.
But it seems that the MultiPlus does not have a separate DC connection for a solar power source. I found a system example (https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/MultiPlus-system-example-5KW-24V-230V-AC.pdf) which is fairly close to what I want, but it seems that the output of the MPPT controller is connected directly to the batteries. It seems to me that in this system, if I configure the PowerAssist feature, the solar source can only supplement battery charging and supplement the power peaks over the 10A I can pull from the grid, but it can't participate in small loads if the batteries are fully charged?
I would like to avoid discharging the batteries as much as possible, to extend their lifetime. They should be used only for supplementing peak power above what grid+solar can supply at the moment.
Additionally, I do not understand this example: I thought batteries need to be charged according to a charging profile, and it seems like there are two chargers connected to the same batteries. How does one ensure proper charging?
I think what I was expecting was an inverter/charger with separate connections for battery and for DC in (from solar/wind), with source prioritization.
Can this kind of prioritization be done with the MultiPlus?
Is it possible to have Victron powerassist kick in below 13 amps load? I have an AC line in source that can only supply a maximum of about 4 amps. I want the quattro to use the AC input line up to about 4 amps and then anything above that should be supplemented from the attached LiFePo4 Battery. When I set the input current limit to anything less than 13 amps from my Venus GX device (Attached to the inverter by a MK3-USB cable) the Venus GX display automatically reverts the entry to 13 amps. When I try to set the input current limit directly on the inverter via Remote VE Configure, it does not seem to actually change anything in the inverter. In other words powerassist never kicks in when a large load is applied to the inverter. The inverter just switches from bypass mode directly to battery supply only mode because the inverter load overloads the external AC source input.
The latest Quattro firmware has been installed.
I have tried with "Overruled by remote" checked and unchecked.
I have tried with "Dynamic Current Limiter" checked and unchecked.
The whole point of spending this much money on this inverter was so that I could take advantage of a small AC input source from a separate hydro-electrically charged system here on the property to supplement the solar charge system that the Quattro is attached to..
can somebody help me setting up my multiplus with victron connect.
the problem is that when I charge my batteries with a 1000watt generator
all is fine until either the central heating burner or the cooker burner on my boat switch on. they each have power consumption of 10 amp but the power spike is much much higher.this results into the generator being overloaded when on eco mode
i tried the soft ramp option but it is not effective enough I also limited the power input with the multi control panel . this now results into the multiplus switching off and than after a few seconds to come on again .
I want the multiplus to take the power load from the batteries and not from the generator when charging.
I have a site that when the customer uses more than 4000 watts for a period of time that the Multiplus 2 48/5000/70-48 (firmware 477) unit turns off on overload rather than going into grid transfer mode, site is setup up with the ESS assistant (grid connected), colour controller (firmware 2.6) and 14.0kW of BYD batteries. Looking at some other posts it appears that the powerassist is turned off when ESS is active, I thought this was rectified with some of the latest firmware or perhaps I have missed a setting somewhere.
I have a system that requires the multiplus to have Ac out only when there is shore power (Ac in) And use the powers assist
The shore power is limited to 10 amps and the system has very short spikes of 15 amps And generally runs at around 6.5 amps so will charge the lithium battery in between spikes
Is there an assistant that can manage this or would the use of a relay be required.
I configured the current limit to 13A and run the AC which consumes about 7A while running the compressor. Assist and dynamic current limiting are enabled. When the compressor kicks in, the assist is unable (or too slow) to compensate for the startup current to avoid the generator from disconnecting. Boost factor is 2 and the breaker is set to 30A.
is there a better way to configure this?
I have ordered a Multiplus II 48/3000/35-32. It does not have the GX panel, it's just the simple inverter with the LED indicators. It is going to be used in an off-grid cabin with a 48V battery bank with solar panels. I also have a Honda EU20i (1600W) generator which I want to use use for backup charging when needed.
However, as the Multiplus II charger can draw close to 1700W when charging at full rate on its own, and also passes through AC from the generator to the loads, it can easilly overload the generator unless the correct limits are in place. So I need to set up PowerControl and PowerAssist correctly to do this.
I can mention that the loads in the cabin probably won't ever exceed 1600W so I probably don't specifically need the "PowerAssist" feature, but it doesn't hurt to enable it. All I need is to limit the draw from the generator.
But I find very conflicting info about what is needed to set this up. Can this be done with the MK3 USB adapter and the PC software? Or does it need one of those fancy GX units or control panels to handle it? I don't need any panel to change or monitor settings "on the fly", I just need to set it up once and leave it as is.
Power assist work grate when fist installed but now if set at 40 amps the Quattro starts to assist around 38 amps and stops assisting at 22 amps. I have a new Quattro and it works grate.
I'm designing a 240 split-phase system for an RV which can take various shore & generator power inputs - 15, 20, 30 amp at 120 or 50 amp at 240.
For various reasons, I'm using a single 230v quattro 8k (configured to 240v/60hz) in my design which will have an autotransformer to create split phase and balanced 120v output.
50 amp 240 input will go to AC1 (in) - straightforward.
The complex part comes with using an autotransformer in front of AC2 (in) so I can connect 120v input ... but my understanding of PowerAssist and PowerControl, etc is limited despite all the reading I've done - so I'm concerned that I won't be able to run from 120v input as I desire.
So here's the thing I'm trying to figure out ... if I need to plug into 120 and
a) charge the batteries and
b) be able to use more than is available on the shore/generator connection, I'd need to use PowerAssist.
In other words, I can't just have the Quattro charge the batteries at X amps and in turn Invert the power that I need inside the RV (so that the "Balance" of the power is either charging or discharging the batteries ... that's basically what PowerAssist *is* from what I can see).
The 230v 8k Quattro minimum PowerAssist value is 10.5 amps at 240v which would be at least 21 amps at 120 (remember that AutoTransformer in front of the Quattro). I could in theory still connect to a 30 amp shore line but not a 15 or 20 amp shore line ... and I'm guessing that this would be really tough to run off a 3kW generator (rated for 2790 watts continuous - 23.25 amps at 120).
I guess what I'm wondering is, can the Victron not just charge the batteries from shore (at some limit lower than 10.5 amps) and invert from the batteries simultaneously? Or is that PowerAssist?
If I can't pull this off (and Victron isn't willing to lower that 10.5 to 7), then I could theoretically externally charge the batteries from a 48vdc charger and just Invert from the batteries but I'm having trouble finding a good one (for LiFePO4).
(this is all essentially to cover myself in situations where my solar isn't sufficient to cover my loads / recharge the batteries -- especially the generator portion when I'm boondocking; 30 amp shore power at an RV park should be OK in theory and it's rare that I connect to 15/20 amp... my biggest concern is the generator and I really don't want to go larger than 3kW for portability reasons (nor do I want TWO generators in parallel).
(I wasn't able to think of a design with two parallel 120v units in 120v mode that would work, either)
Is it possible to have an ESS configuration, where grid is used as "power assist" if inverter loads go over a certain threshold?
Client wants a 3p Multiplus-II system, and 5kVA per phase is ok 99% of the time, there is a 3x16A grid line serving only as fallback. No feed-in and usually also no draw from grid (in said 99% of the cases).
As the client is reluctant to go for a 8kVA or 10kVA 3p Quattro configuration (mainly because the higher self-consumption of the devices), the question is if the grid could be used as "power assist" in those 1% peak cases.
I was thinking of an assistant activating the transfer switch if load went over xx%. Possible?
The power system (components listed here; all devices have the latest firmware as of this posting) I installed in my fifth wheel is entering power assist mode despite the AC input being less than the input current limit. For background, one goal of this system was to be able to run a pair (15 and 13.5 kBTU/hr) of air conditioners on 30A/120VAC single phase service, with the inverters/batteries supplementing the grid power for intermittent loads like a Keurig, microwave, etc. The trailer came with one air conditioner on L1 and the other on L2. Of course, when only single phase input is provided, the second inverter inverts from 12 VDC but its continuous output must of course be limited by the first inverter's charging capacity of 120A. After conversion losses this is inadequate to power the second AC without pulling from the batteries (side note for any Victron employees lurking: *please* implement a way for the second inverter in a split-phase system to accept AC input that's in-phase with the first inverter! This is obviously something that can be done in software and its absence is driving customers with RV applications out of their minds). To get around this problem I installed a 20A switch that allows me to switch the second air conditioner from L1 to L2. I thought that was clever.
But not really; the stubbornness of the Multiplus defeats my ingenuity. See pics below.
As you can see, it is drawing well below the input current limit from the grid, yet "assisting" and drawing down my batteries. The total draw is around 28-29A although it can't be seen in the pictures (but you can infer it from the "AC Loads").
Please help me figure out how to force the inverter to draw up to the input current limit before it goes into assist mode; I really can't stomach the thought that I paid ~$15k and put in dozens of hours of work to actually lose capability.
Edit: The system is plugged into a 30A 120/240VAC split-phase connection. Inside the rig I have a 50A breaker upstream of the Multis, and I cut the little metal link joining the two poles of the breaker so that I can switch L1 and L2 on/off separately. In the example above, L2 is cut off to simulate how the Multis behave when only given a 30A/120VAC input (the first inverter switches to grid input while the second simply inverts from the batteries, as I ranted about in bold above). It is connected through several long extension cords, hence the voltage drop. Nevertheless, there is sufficient input amperage available to power these loads from grid input alone (and it certainly should be pulling more than 23A when it has a 30A input current limit).
Here's a VRM link: https://vrm.victronenergy.com/installation/66058/share/6019a575
And here's a link to the RVMS file with the current inverter configuration: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JUNAxmPHIBWKNB6Saglhysvo8FdTxRsx/view?usp=sharing
This is the first time I have seen this, but things don't add up on my VRM.
Earlier on today I saw that my system was using the power assist feature but upon closer inspection, the current coming from the battery was zero. But the output power was higher than the input power (as one would see during Power assist operation)- See image 1.
This happened twice more this morning, until there was a larger power assistance instance, but this time the VE.Bus state didn't show it went into power assist mode, but you can easily see that the battery was adding power to the system- See image 2.
For reference, the whole mornings data is shown in Image 3.
Has anyone else experienced this? or is this a known issue?
Multiplus 12|3000|120 AC-Out-1: 75A possible. AWG 6 recommended.
AC-In says to use three-wire cable, AWG 6 gauge. Rated for 50A.
I've seen 6/3 cable say 55A per conductor, so is 6/3 cable sufficient for AC-Out-1? Or use three AWG 6 wires, or a lower gauge like 4/3?
Hi, we use ESS extensively on residential 5KVA and 8 and 10 KVA quattros (mainly). We configure a schedule charge over the evening peak so that we have 95% of battery in case of a very likely power outage (in South Africa). On some sites we need power assist so that the household does not breach their 60A incoming breaker during peak loads (supper time in winter). Will power assist work in a scheduled charge cycle?
Furthermore - is there an application note on how power assist works and what the factor of 2 stands for? And when should this be adjusted?
I have a Victron easy solar 24/3000/70/50, we are using power assist but vacuum cleaner trips the generator, we have set our input current limit to suit generator size and also tried dynamic current limiter.
Hello, I would like to ask if you can use powerassist with inverter as primary source in overload condition. I am asking this to determine if 1x inverter will be sufficient or whether it would have to paralled 2x to accomodate rare cases or overload (electric cookers 4kW + random loads under 3kW). Let me explain:
Inverter: Multiplus-II 5000VA
Grid: Available and connected, limitless
Battery: Ideal and limitless
Normal conditions: Loads under 5000VA operate on invertor without issues (>95% time)
Question condition: Loads exceed 5000VA - Invertor overload (not counting on 130% overload possibility @ 5minutes)
When loads exceeds rating of invertor I would like it to feed in the rest from the grid (if available) resulting in 5000VA from invertor and rest taken from grid - stable over 5000VA system for limited time period. Meaning the priority should be always on batteries and invertor power and grid only used if required. I understand that if grid fails at that moment, the system would shutdown due to overload.
It this possible?
What are the limits? (Total combined power, Switching times, Minimum difference in power consumed vs power assisted, etc.)
I couldnt find answers anywhere in data sheets and powerassist manuals.
I'm looking to use an arrangement of Multiplus with the PowerAssit function to support a transformer with limited power. I have been looking for aplication notes and my system look similar to the Example 5.3 or Example 5.4 of the "Achiving the impossible" whitepaper. My main concerns are the following:
1) The systems in the examples are all single phased. For 3 phase systems the document says "Phoenix Multis and Phoenix inverters can also be configured for 3 phase operation. We will be pleased to make a proposal for a 3 phase system." I don't know if that means that they are working on new application notes or a custom solution requirement is to be submited. Are there any examples, application notes or other type of guide on 3 phase systems with the PowerAssist functionality? Is there a maximum grid power or amps to work with the PowerAssist functionality?
2) There is a PowerMan 230/80/2 module, but it doesn't appear on the product on the website. Is this a discontinued product? if so, what power controllers have replaced this product?
3) Can a 5000 and a 3000 Multiplus connected in series to get 8kW of power or does it only function with identical models?
I would greatly appreciate any help.
I installed a 12/2000 Multiplus compact in my travel trailer with 100ah Battleborn batteries. I am having two issues.
1) The Multi will not connect to neither of my two laptops using two separate MK3’s. The RJ45 cable I am using is from Victron and connects to my Smart Dongle without any issues. I need to program my Multi with the laptop as it has not been yet. This is making me feel like I wasted a lot of money of it.
2) When I am plugged into 30A shore power, the Multi will not let me use shore power for large loads (starting my AC) and it tries to do all of the work. My smart dongle then reads that it overloaded and the Multi shuts off and then back on. When plugged into shore power, this shouldn’t happen. It should just pass the power through (even power boost if needed) but it does not.
Previous posts have not been helpful with resolving this.
So far very frustrated with Victron products and will be selling this on EBay if it can’t be resolved.
I would like to know if are there any counter-indications about the way I plan to use PowerAssist.
My main goal is to run washing machine (2000W) + some permanent loads around ~300W. So, in total, on average I would like to run ~2300W during washing machine's program.
I have an inverter Multiplus 24/ 3000 VA, capable of delivering ~2000W, but with temperature derate sometmes I get overload warnings around 1800W or 1900W. I have around 3000W of PV. The idea is to take advantage of sunny days and put the system to work, with priority to solar and getting from GRID that small amount the inverter can't provide. This, without ESS for the moment.
So, I have set on Venus these conditions:
1. If AC load on inverter > 1700W, switch to GRID
2. Maxium AC input from GRID = 3A
3. Disconnect from grid when AC load < 1000W
This will force PowerAssist to work, giving roughly 700W from grid and 1700W (max) from Inverter (Solar/ Battery). During periods of 20 ~30 minutes.
This will save me a lot of € in power bill, while not overloading the Multiplus.
Is this ok? Or am I violating any rule? I don't want to jeopardy the Multi in any way...
My two Multiplus 24/3000-70/50 do not act like the White Paper "Achieving the Impossible" at all.
Here you can see my setup in action. Please notice the low low on ACin (30a single phase) and the high demand, but low SOC of my battery bank (400aH Lithium).
Please note my settings and data below.
According to the white paper, I should have ~10A AC available and charging the batteries at this point....but they just keep getting discharged.
Now, I switched the major load (A/C) off. Here is the system reaction:
Any help is appreciated.
Is there a minimum amount of power that is drawn from the batteries to “assist” for Multiplus Compact 12/2000? It always seems to be a minimum of about 400 watts or so. For instance, the inverter will actually decrease the incoming amps from shore power significantly lower than the input current setting in order to have a minimum of 400w coming from the batteries.