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Lithium vs AGM

I plan to change my gel with lithium but I will leave the boat on the hard for 11 months per year for the next 5 years. After I will be on board 4 to 6 months a years. Has anyone any idea on what are the storage constraints for lithium and AGM knowing they will stay on board in countries there the boat will be at the time (. Mostly in the Mediterranean Sea). I will prefer lithium but it depends on how each system will behave for the 11 months. I have 400W of solar panels but I do not know if that will make a difference during these long periods. I will gladly hear any comment or advice. Thanks

ely asked
Alistair Warburton edited ·

3 Answers

Victron 60Ah AGM acceptable voltage drop under load

General question, I'm learning as I go ahead, and the more I progress the more I realise I don't know anything :-)


I have a small solar setup and my battery is a Victron Deep Cycle AGM 60Ah.


It is connected to a SmartSolar 75|10 and I monitor it via a SmartShunt.

The battery is used to power LED lights and give power to a couple of small electrical loads. Everything is connected to the load output of the charge controller, works perfectly fine. With the lights on I draw around 24W.

Battery charges correctly, everything is fine.

I also have (wired directly to the battery/shunt) a 1000W inverter.
It doesn't get used much, and generally with loads of about 50/150W for 10/15 minutes maximum.

So far so good.


I sometimes want to connect a much bigger load (air compressor). It runs for less than a minute generally, unless it is fully empty, in which case it will run for a couple of minutes, (but this case will happen less than once a month).

The compressor is rated at 700W. When used, the SmartShunt measures about 900W (and a healthy 86A) but the battery voltage drops down to 10.5 under that load.

The SmartShunt indicates about 20 minutes remaining energy (at 50% SoC) under that load.


I used it a couple of times to test it. Battery SoC went down about 10% (as indicated in the app), charged happily in the next day or so.


Questions are:

– how much would be an acceptable voltage drop under an heavy load for that AGM battery (cannot find data online)?

– any pointers on how to properly calculate battery capacity to run something like that?


Thanks in advance.

er-minio asked
michelg edited ·

3 Answers

Your experience selling your Victron devices after upgrade

As the title says, this is not a technical question.

This is related to the value of a Victron device after 3-4 years and how much is supported or not by Victron certified installers. Please share here what was you experience.


My case....in 4 years since I have the system, I did several changes/upgrades. Normally, I've tried all the time to recuperate some of the investment by selling the "old" devices...if 2-3-4 years means old. There were cases of buyers knowledgeable and experienced to install themselves....all the others I've recommended them to contact a certified Victron installer to support. There was no single case that an installer would support them.

Now, I'm selling 8 batteries Victron Gel 220Ah, 4 years old...that were in average for the 4 years duration discharged around 5%. In total I got 1.900KWh out of them, and based on the last months reports out of VRM they have more than 96% health and an internal resistance between 3 and 4 miliohm.

One possible buyers, after discussing with a certified Victron installer was told they are not recommending these batteries, as they are old, and they can vouch only for Lithium. I would say great, but then Victron please stop selling any other type of batteries other than Lithium...or update the specs papers, and reduce the lifespan to 3-4 years.

Cristian Miclea asked
Matthias Lange - DE answered ·

3 Answers

NiFe battery with multi 24/3000/70 what are the recommended settings

I'm attracted to these batteries as a long term asset. Should I go DC coupled? AC coupled? Where can I find other users with nickel iron experience?

fungi asked
marekp commented ·

16 Answers

Battery problem

Hi I have 4x agm 12v 230ah batteries in a row in my 48v system. Everythink is working finde so far. But one of the batteries is all the time 0.2 volts below the other and while chargeing 02-0.4 volts above chargevoltage. Is the battery defect. Should I try the reconditioning programm on the charter?

skykay asked
lucode answered ·

1 Answer

Battery Corrosion / Sulfation

Hello,

i bought this battery (Victron GEL - Deep Discarge, 12V 220Ah) "used" for a good price, but of cause at one point I get the bill for buying "the cheap deal"...

Yesterday I noticed a strange type of corrosion/sulfation at the +Pole. See the pictures. (please excuse the dirt on the batteries, we live in the wilderness for two months now...) It looks like the sulfation is pushing out of a invisible gap between the pole-metal and the insulation material. (the sulfation on the red cable is only there, because it was resting closer to the pole before taking the picture). Also you can notice a super thin layer of liquid, more like "it looks humid", on the surface of the battery.

So far i cannot notice any lack in the performance... loads well, holds the charge and has no noticable drop in Ah.

Internet says in general about batteries (mostly about car starter batteries) to simply carefully clean it off, with the right tools and cleaner.

I just wanted to know if anyone has experienced this as well and:

- can i continue using it, of cause accepting that it gets worse over time...? Is it safe to continue using it, or do i have to replace it imediately? (can it burn or explode or anything?)

- is there any way to try to seal it again? (probably not...)

- if it is pushing out of that gap, what does it tell me about my setup? (is it simply the battery broken?)

(Or, what could be as well: is the temperature where i keep the battery, too hot, so that it over-loads it and its pushing out? It is set up with a Victron Smart MTTP 100/50 nearby inside of a caravan, we are in Turkey, when the sun is out, it can get really hot in here, but the corrosion/sulfation happened very lately, when it was not as hot anymore... i was hoping that the temperature sense of the MPPT was close enough to the batteries so that it could choose the right amount of charging... no additional temperature sensor at the batteries in use...)

Any thoughts and tipps appreciated! :) Thank You in advance

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habi asked
elimac answered ·

1 Answer

Pylontech and Victron (New Build) : Help Needed

Hello Everyone,


I have just joined this community so please bear with me.


I recently had a battery installed removed from my property as it did not do what i expected off the shelf. It was manufactured by a company called GivEnergy and it was a very poor product with many development issues.

Now i have decided to go out this myself.

I am looking at utilising either the Multiplus or Quattro Units along with Pylontech Batteries and wondered if you had any advice, comments or examples of system design/schematics.

The system is to integrate with an already install SolarEdge 6000 HD Inverter for my PV.

I am looking for storage capacity of approximately 21kw, so utilising the Pylontech 3000 Series batttery. The biggest request i have for the system is having a large discharge power as I have a Air Source Heat Pump which can take up to 5kw for Water Heating.


My idea was to use the Quattro 8000 Unit having the batteries wired in a stack of 8 with a ring circuit back to a DC Distribution. The batteries are to be controlled using a GX Device.


My question really revolves, any lessons learned? Does anyone have any advice on the Quattro and GX Devices.

Am i doing the right thing with this?

Any help is greatly appreciated.


Thanks

Mike







mikeseaman3000 asked
mikeseaman3000 commented ·

1 Answer

Welche Einstellung im Menu für den Batterietyp bei Blei Säure im MPPT 100/20

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Hallo Gemeinde, ich habe seit kurzem einen MPPT 100/20 und daran eine 55 Ah und eine 45 Ah Blei Säure Batterie angeschlossen, jetzt habe ich versucht diese im Menü einzustellen aber die Auswahl für diesen Batterietyp gibt es nicht !

Welche Einstellung muß ich wo verwenden für diesen Batterietyp ???

T. Jahr asked
T. Jahr answered ·

2 Answers

IP22 Charger

When connected to shore power can you use the IP22 charger to continue to maintain the batteries in float mode as well as simultaneously supplying 12volt power to lights, fans, intermittent water pump etc for extended periods of say three months. If so what do you set the IP22 charger to using the Bluetooth app”charging or load”

cheers Wobbly 1305

wobbly asked
Thierry Cortassa (Victron Energy Staff) answered ·

1 Answer

Is it possible to mix Pylontech US2000 and US3000?

Hi, does it work if i start with an US3000, that i later add an US2000 to the system....or an US2000 requires an US2000 and they cannot be mixed up?

Kind Regards

Norbert

njordan asked
james commented ·

4 Answers

Victron Quattro coupled to NiFe battery bank

Hi,

I am examining the systems architecture of a quattro 48/15000/200-100/100 VE.Bus 48V 15000W VA 200A Inverter Charger, Coupled to a NiFe (nickel iron) battery bank, comprising of 1.2v x 40 cells. Fundamentally, they are a relatively safe, extremely robust solution, that can stand up to DOD's that would finish Li banks, that leaves other battery technologies in their wake, as long as, you are prepared for the top up requirements.

I am looking for someone that has attempted this solution. generally, the 4 brands of NiFe cells, have a specification as follows, with small variation;

Chemical System - Nickel Iron (NiFe)

Battery Type - Rechargable Deep Cycle, Flooded with Alkaline Electrolyte Electrolyte Chemistry Potassium Hydroxide (KOH) And Lithium Hydroxide (LiOH)

Electrolyte Refresh Rate Suggested every 7-10 years to sustain maximum performance Terminal Poles, Cell-To-Cell Busbars Nickel-Plated Steel, Tinned Copper Cell Container Translucent, Corrosion-Free Polypropylene or ABS Engineering Plastic Vents Flame-Arresting Flip-Top Vents

Nominal Voltage -1.2 Volts (per cell)

Charging Voltage - 1.65 Volts (per cell)

Efficiency - 80% Cycle Life 11,000 Cycles At 80% Depth Of Discharge

Float Life / Shelf Life - 30 Years / 85 Years

Optimum Charge & Discharge Current C/4

Minimum Charging Current -C/20

Maximum Continuous Charging Current C/2

Maximum Pulsed Charging Current 1C

Maximum Discharge Current C/2

Self-Discharge Rate 1% per day

Operating Temperature -30⁰ C To +60⁰ C (-22⁰ F To +140⁰ F)

I would like to hear from people that have done a implementation, of a quattro and NiFe cells, to understand where the stumbling block might be.


owenski asked
petajoule answered ·

1 Answer

Can I remove 4 batteries from this setup?

I have 2 batteries on each of my 2 Cummins engines at 12 volts and 4 batteries for my bow thruster at 24 volts. Can I eliminate the 4 engine batteries and tie them into my thruster batteries assuming the bow thruster is not on a common ground? See Pic

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kurt404 asked
kurt404 answered ·

3 Answers

EasySolar 24/1600/40, GEL-Batteries, How to set up for heavy Loads?

Hello,

I am completely Off-Grid, so no AC-Charging or Power.

I have two 12v220Ah-GEL Batteries connected in series to the EasySolar, I was told by the seller that it would be best for the batteries to not load them with more than 0.1C, that means 22A. (First question, is this true?)

So I set up my MPPT charger to load the batteries with max 25A (i have a fridge running all the time...).

As the seller told me as well, it is also most healthy for the batteries to not unload them with more than 0.1C, which is again 22A, in a 24V system this means i can use a maximum of 528Watt if i want to be nice to the GEL-batteries. ;)

But in the future i might want to use heavier Loads, lets say a vacuum cleaner with 1200Watt. The Inverter of the EasySolar can do it, and with a max of 1400Watt on the MPPT100/50, it should be able to do it completely with sunlight.

Now since i understand it would not be good for the GELs to suck the 1200Watts out of them, i wanna vacuum only during a sunny day.

But My MPPT Charger is set to a maximum of 22A on the Load.

The Question:

In order to use full power of the solar panels, do I have to manually lift this limit, everytime when I want to use my vacuum or another heavy load, and then, when i am done using the load, do i have to set it back to 22A-25A in order to not damage my batteries? Or did i miss another spot in the settings, where i can solve this issue, so that it switches automaticly?


Thanks in advance!

habi asked
habi answered ·

2 Answers

Gel 12v/220 ah battery terminals

Have ordered victron 12/220 gel batteries for an installation. Cannot find a clear picture of the battery and terminals. Some pics show the terminals on the narrow side , some on the large/wide side. Need to anticipate to build the proper rack. Can someone tell me where are the terminals on the gel 12/220 and may be send me a picture ?

Thanks


Herve RV Nizard asked
Herve RV Nizard answered ·

2 Answers

ESS large battery draw on Scheduled Charge

System details :

  • MultiPlus-II 48/3000
  • Pylontech US2000B Plus 4.8kWh Li-Ion Battery
  • Venus GX
  • ESS

I'm running an ESS system and noticed that the startup of large AC loads are being powered from the battery / inverter when on scheduled charge. The scenario is as follows:

  • Scheduled charge period
  • Target charge has been reached
  • Grid is available
  • Zero PV

Under these conditions, my understanding is that the system should be relying on the grid to power the loads (with minor background losses). What I'm seeing is that the batteries are used to support the startup of large loads while the grid contribution is slowly ramped up over a few seconds. In the screenshot below, we were using a clothes iron that switched on and off frequently. This resulted in large loads being pulled from the battery each time the element switched on and corresponding charges pushed to the battery when the load switched off. Any way to change the behaviour and get the system to rely on the grid in this scenrio?


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Here is less extreme example where a kettle is switched on and pulls 14A from the battery during a scheduled charge period:


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kempza asked
k2aab commented ·

1 Answer

12V batteries (110Ah and 220Ah) in parallel using MPPT 75 / 15

Batteries have different capacity; is it advise to connect them in parallel? or should I use an Argo FET battery isolator?

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ant13 asked
offgridsolutions answered ·

1 Answer

Why do Battery Temps vary widely between SmartShunt & MPPT, Multiplus and SmartLithium

Below are several iOS VictonConnect screens show seemingly significant Battery Temperature differences.

My SmartShunt has battery temp sensor and shares to MPPT over VE Smart Network and they read 88, which is also the ambient temp.

The Multiplus shows 96 and the Smart Lithium displays 94.


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vanman asked
Jesse answered ·

1 Answer

Pylontech Battery Temperature Missing During PassThru

Previously I have seen my system go into Passthru once (in 6 months) It didn't cause any issues and hence I just left it... but last week I saw it go into passthru three times in a day, and it seems that every time it went into passthrough the battery temperature went missing...


Now leading to my questions:

1. Is this normal?

2. Is this a known issue and has anyone else experienced this? and finally,

3. Is there a way to correct this?


Regards

Ewald


The battery is a Pylotech 2.4kWh and is connected to a Venus Gx via Can bus.

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Zoomed in section

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ewalderasmus asked
Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) commented ·

2 Answers

Victron Quattro 48/15000/200-100/100 - Best battery technology

Hi, i am a recent purchaser of the Quattro 48/15000 and are looking for a suitable battery bank, ideally 1200ah. As i see it, the options are;

NiFe (needs 40 cells for 48v, large physical foorprint, low powered, unbreakable, huge DOD and recovery, flushed out every 7~8 years, 30+ years lifespan, )

Sealed Lead Acid (limited lifespan, old school tech, all the negatives of SLA batteries)

Sealed Lead Carbon (12 ~ 15 years lifespan, slightly better DOD)

LiFePo (5 ~7 years lifespan, can react badly, on incorrect charging, expensive for the return)



owenski asked
ejrossouw answered ·

1 Answer

What are the disadvantages of lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4) batteries?

In addition to the price, what are the disadvantages of lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4) batteries?

If the price of lifepo4 comes down, will no one buy the lead-acid battery?

lucas-mill asked
merlepeter answered ·

8 Answers

Quick charge option for ESS?

Is there some option (that I might be missing) in remote console (or VRM or wherever) to activate an immediate charge from grid state? I know of the schedule options, but sometimes we (in South Africa) will hear about an impending grid failure (load shedding) a few hours in the future, and the battery SOC might not be as desired ahead of that. It would be nice to have an option to just tell the system to charge from grid right now, perhaps until some kind of settable SOC and/or time limit or so. Let's say my battery is at 50%, and I hear there will be 2.5hrs of loadshedding in an hour from now, I'd like to be able to select a quick charge option, set it to (say) 80% SOC and 55min time limit, and have it start immediately. Right now (unless I'm missing something) I need to add a new schedule to start in a few minutes and it's a lot more keystrokes in a sense to get to what I really want: charge now.


(apologies if this has been asked and answered, I did try to search for something similar, but could not find anything)


--

multiplus II 5000, 4x 3.5kWh pylontech, 150/100 MPPT, venus GX

gyrovague asked
Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) answered ·

1 Answer

24v battery setup with 12v output

Q1: I would like to add a second battery to my current 12v system. It currently has a 210ah agm and I was wondering if it would be best to wire the second one in as a 24v setup or keep it simply as a 12v?


Q2: If I did do a 24v battery setup will my 75/20 automatically output 12v or will it only do a 24v output without another device to covert it?

Regards

luke-martin asked
ash answered ·

2 Answers

Super Cap batteries

has anyone used them with victron my one client wants them and i prefer lithium. it might be a deal breaker.

Martin Coetzee asked
mario answered ·

3 Answers

Separate battery banks and "networks" using VictronConnect?

Perhaps it's obvious once I have the equipment in front of me, but if I want to use smart mppt and orion for one battery bank and another smart mppt and smart battery sense for another battery bank, can I have two separate networks in VictronConnect on my phone? E.g. to prevent the smart battery sense of bank 2 to influence bank 1.

Thanks

Tobias

tobiasbjorklind asked
wkirby answered ·

1 Answer

How would i know if my battery charge.

I have a Multiplus II. How would i find out if my battery charge. What is the difference between float & absorbtion.

dina asked
Justin Cook - Bay Marine Supply USA answered ·

1 Answer

charge settings Beaut AGM100-12

We have installed an Easysolar 24-1600-40 in our off-grid cabin on a small island.

Most of the time it will be charged by our solarpanels (2x2 260WP).

I am struggeling to adjust the charge settings for our batteries: two Beaut AGM100-12 batteries in series (=24V 100Ah)

Could somebody advice me on that? specific for these batteries? I have attached the specs sheet of the batteries.

I would like to know the best values for: (between ( ) my guess)

absorption voltage (??V)

float voltage (27.40V)

equalization voltage (29.40V)

temperature compensation (12cells * -4mV/degree Celsius =-48mV/degree Celsius)

Thank you in advance!


Michiel

Beaut accu wms_agm100-12.pdf

offgrid-cabin-easysolar asked
JohnC commented ·

2 Answers

Bv712 percentage not increasing

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I have a mppt 70/150 smart regulator.I have 5 Giant 140amp hour AGM batteries and a BV 712 batt monitor. There are 3 315watt panels also

The sun has been on them all day and i have motored also but the percent is still going down. This has only started happening after i tried to fine tune the settings on the mppt and the bv712 after some of the information i read here in the victron community. It seemed to be working before that. The voltage is going up but the absorption time is very small. It goes from bulk to float with a short stop on absorbtion. I have attached the settings. Anyone see a problem in the settings??

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aidenodonnell7 asked
aidenodonnell7 commented ·

2 Answers

Disconnect solar when no battery

If I need to remove a battery from a system, when solar is connected, the circuit remains live so long as solar energy is available. Does the Victron charge controller (BlueSolar 75/15) have a feature whereby it switches off (effectively isolating the solar) if it senses that there is no battery?

andrewg asked
sportswagoneer commented ·

2 Answers

Smart battery sense display

Will it show the temperature/Voltage in the VRM portal?

..if i link the smart battery sense to BMV-712 to Ve.Smart Networking

..if i used wire temperature sensor to the Stater Battery

fenix asked
snoobler answered ·

3 Answers

Low Battery Alarm at 48V in a ESS system

In my EasySolar 5000 system running ESS I get every morning a Low Battery at around 48 V and I can't figure out from where this Alarm (setpoint) is triggered.

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The Low Battery parameter in the Multi are set as follows:

Inverter DC shut-down voltage
37.2
V
Inverter DC restart voltage
43
V
Low DC alarm level 42
V


The Dynamic cut-off settings in the ESS assistance is unchanged starting at 48V.
DVCC is not enabled. It is pretty hard to see where some effects/settings coming from with ESS, because a lot happens in the dark background (aka blackbox).

In addition, I run Gel batteries without BMS. Float voltage is at 55.2 V, Absorb. at 56.4 V.

lucode asked

0 Answers

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