alternator Image

alternator

Orion-TR Smart 12/12 30A F-250 Alternator Charging Settings?

I am having some difficulties setting up my new Victron Orion-TR Smart 12/12 30A chargers on my 2019 Ford F-250 with a 200 amp heavy duty alternator.

Originally, I had this isolator based system:

Blue Sea System Relay

80 amp circuit breaker

House Battery (300 ah LiFEBlue LiFEPO4)

I have now wired in the two Orions between the circuit breaker and the house battery (want to test before removing the relay).

I am having some wild voltage swing looking at the units with the standard LiFEPO4 settings.

For one, can this setup only handle one Orion potentially?

Also, if I remove the remote plug does that disable the unit and allow it be bypassed even if it is still wired in currently?

Any tips or pointer from someone who has tackled a similar project would be most appreciated.

I just wanted to better protect my alternator and charge my LiFEPO4 at the optimum voltage, and I am accomplishing neither at the moment.

erstwild asked

0 Answers

Converting a 24V alternator with an inverter in a 230V generator for a multiplus II 48/3000. To good to be true?

Hi,

Still designing, came onto an approach which seems to me almost to good to be true (in my case), so I have the suspicion I make a mistake. Can you enlighten me?

The engine of my truck exists with 24V 35/55/80A alternators, so I assume that on the 80A model I could use about 50A (so roughly 1000W) without impacting the core of the truck.

I would prefer to run my "ESS" on 48V as it makes technically and financially most sense.

Now I could run 24-48 DCDC convertors, but to get to 25A on 48V takes 3.

But I could also run a 24V inverter and use it to convert my 50A spare of 80A 24V alternator in a 1000W 230V generator, which I connect to the ACin of the multiplus. In order not to stretch my alternator, and leave my truck stater batteries alone, I need a multiplus where I can set a very low limit on the ACin, only the 48/3000 model with limit minimum of 4.3 A stays in the 1000W ballpark (5000 is 6A). If I put a Cyrix 230A between alternator/starter battery & the inverter which I can program a bit, I should be able to make sure the invertor only kicks in when the engine is running. As the inverter can be rather simple, the 24 1000W (or let's say 1500W to be safe), can be a more plain (cheaper) brand as Victron. Or do you see a benefit of using a Phoenix

Fringe benefit, I can boost the AC out 2400W of the multiplus to 3400W (or about) by running the engine, and while I drive my base equipment runs on the alternator, only using the mutiplus/battery/solar for powerassist , and for charging my living batteries with whatever is spare of the 1000W.

When connecting to a landline (or other 230V source), I disconnect the inverter and replace it with the landline, the UPS function makes this transparent on the ACout side.

Eventually I can add a low power 230V 24V charger to AC out, and use that to maintain the truck starter batteries during longer stops (e.g. think parked 6 Months between holidays). I don't risk to make a loop as when the engine runs, the charger will detect high voltage on the starter side, and quit charging.

I would put a CerboGX to tie stuff together, and it seems to me I could use that to eventually add a temperature sensor on the alternator which the GX could use to kill the inverter, e.g. by opening the cyrix.


Looking forward to your views, spend many hours reading, but only experience makes a master, and that I lack.


Many thanks

Nicolas


UPDATE: A potential weak point (to be checked in real life) could be the alternator overheating when having to deliver the 1000W with the engine @ idle => low rpm => low cooling => it gets too hot and brakes. In the this setup it seems the throttling of the 1000W could only be done, by cutting ACin (4.3 A being the minimum limit) on the multiplus or switching the inverter on-off (limit it to e.g. 500W makes no sense it seems to me, as this gets below the multiplus threshold) . This would be beter manageable in a charger based system, where you could throttle.


nicolas-g asked
nicolas-g edited ·

0 Answers

Alternator Charging - Orion vs BMS CL 12/100

Hi,

I'm planning a set up for charging a Victron Smart Lithium 12v 200ah battery from the alternator of my van (a 2012 Mercedes Sprinter 313cdi).

I will have Dometic Freshwell 3000 air conditioning unit in the back of the van which I would like to be able to use while driving and on hookup. The plan is to run it through a Multiplus Compact 12 2000 as it requires 230v AC - 4.2amps to run.

4.2a @ 230v = ~1000W, the Multiplus will need maybe 1250W supply when considering losses?, more losses in getting the power to the multiplus, through the leisure battery, from the charger/alternator means maybe working on the basis that 1500W is required from the 12v alternator?

125amps required from the alternator - is that a fair estimate?

I need to check the alternator I have fitted but could look at upgrading if it is not 180a+

What is the best way to ensure that the supply of power from the alternator/starter battery to the leisure battery is enough to offset the demand of the multiplus/aircon and not result in flattening the battery(s) on long journeys?

Options that might work:

  • Multiple Orions in parallel - seems over the top to have 4+ orions in parallel just to achieve 120amps
  • 1x BMS CL 12/100 for 100amps, in parallel with 1x orion for 130amps total - benefit of BMS included and the voltage controlled charging from the orion to help top up the Lithium battery.


Any suggestions on how to make this work are much appreciated.

Cheers,

K

kieran-mcmonagle asked
Matthias Lange - DE commented ·

2 Answers

Practicality of using two parallel connected Orion TR Smart 12/12 -30 to speed up charging.

Practicality of using two parallel connected Orion TR Smart 12/12 -30 to speed up charging of two parallel connected 100 Ah LiFePO4 batteries. Alternator of our van is not smart, 105 amp. Concerns: 1) Will this amount of load on the alternator overwork it too much? 2) Will the alternator only be able to deliver such a small additional amperage with a second Orion that the addition of a second unit is not worth it? 3) Is there a way to know how much charging amperage is available from an alternator without over-stressing it? 4) Would it be smarter to install a larger capacity alternator?

yeknom asked
yeknom commented ·

1 Answer

Compact campervan system for solar and alternator charging

For a small campervan I'm looking for a way to charge the household battery from both solar and alternator.
I have gathered the following components:

-Household battery: AGM super cycle 12V/60Ah
-Smart Solar MPPT 75/10
-Orion Smart Tr 12/12-30

The start and house hold batteries will share common ground. The output load will be connected through a relay to the household battery. The relay coil will be switched by the load output of the MPPT to prevent deep discharge.

According to the datasheet of the Victron AGM batteries the charge current must be limited to 0.2C (12A in this case). At higher charge currents temperature compensation is required.

I see the following potential problems:

-The Orion will bulk charge with at least 30A and the Orion can not use a temperature sensor to compensate. This will probably reduce battery life.
-The available space for the battery and the chargers is quite small. The orion will dissipate more than 50W during bulk charging which is a lot in the small compartiment.
-The high current draw from the alternator might slow down the charging time of the start battery.

The options to solve this:
-Reduce the Orion charge current but this seems not possible when looking at the settings in the App.
-Use the isolated Orion Smart Tr 12/12-18. With 18A charge current the battery might have a longer life.
-Use a DC/DC converter to feed the PV input of the MPPT and a Cyrix between the alternator and the DC/DC converter. A relay will switch between solar and DC/DC converter as source. I know some people use the Orion 12/24-5 isolated converter for this purpose. The Orion's short circuit current of 39A concerns me in combination with the MPPT spec of 13A max. As far as I understand the MPPT will short the input during the MPPT tracking cycle. An option here could be to use a diffent brand DC/DC converter with constant current limit below 13A.

Can anyone advise?

campervan asked

0 Answers

Alternator Visual Input GX device. DVCC compensation for alternator charge.

Hi, I am looking for a very visual input for the alternator power source,

I am considering buying an Orion smart charger for the alternator, to have everything compensated and properly measured, but to my surprise DVCC can't include the alternator charge, neither with the "smart" charger that I thought was meant for this use.

Also, In my case, I share the boat with my father (67 y/o) and my brother, and they don't have that big technical knowledge, would be great to be able to see the alternator charge as another "device" in the bubbles graphs, to be easier to see at a glance the alternator charge.

Same applies for VRM Portal.


Victorn has gone very far to make this great products that we love, and can't leave it there, It's just a very little step in the natural direction to integrate this and make the perfect combo.

[image]

[image]

[image]

[image]


alnavasa asked
alnavasa commented ·

2 Answers

2 alternators to 3 battery banks with 1 argofet

Hi there,

i am looking to switch from a competitor to all victron but i cant work out how to integrate the Argofet with my two alternators and 3 battery banks.


is it possible to connect 2 alternators in parallel to the single input of the argofet (obviously if the combined ampage is less than the Argofet rating) and have them split between the three bank?


the only info i found on twin engine installations was to use 2 argofets which i assume means i need to run another separate set of charge leads from the 2nd argofet to the batteries which sounds messy

nfluester asked

0 Answers

Small alternator 16A with Lithium

Hi,

What recommendation would you share to charge 90Ah LiFePO4 with an alternator rated 16A.

Alternator is not a smart version, don't have any control in case of high temperature.

I'm quite sure that putting it without any Orion-Tr Smart would blow the alternator in a while.


OrionTr-Smart 12/12-18 is almost good, but since cannot set the current limit, it doesn't help too much.


KR,

Lcas

lucasnowak asked

0 Answers

Could someone please check if I'm thinking this right?

Hey folks! I'm setting up the electrical for my van conversion and have zero experience besides videos and articles. I came across the Smart BMS CL 12-100 but I'm not super sure if that's what I need? It charges the battery safe from the alternator, right? Sames as the Orion? Is it a new thing?

I've put this diagram together to illustrate what I'm thinking. Please ignore fuse/trip sizes as it's just to illustrate, I still need to calculate everything.

Anyway, would really appreciate some thoughts on this.

[image]


georgeleonardo asked
georgeleonardo answered ·

3 Answers

How to connect the alternator to the shunt bus bar for Victron BMV 712

I have a sailing boat with BMV 712 connected to a service battery bank and a crank battery for the engine. The main battery bank which BMV is full monitoring is the service one with 460AH. I have a Perko switch where the two positives of the banks are connected. Where I turn my engine on and uses battery 2 bank on the switch I was supposed to see the alternator charge to this bank (I Have an Yanmar 29hp engine), which is not happening. I did not connect any alternator cable to the battery 2 bank where the BMV shunt is connected, where I think the problem resides in.

Can you help me and let me know what alternator cable I should have wired to the bus bar that connects to the shunt?

paulo asked
trinasgarden answered ·

1 Answer

Which should I use - Smart BMS 12/100, BMS 12/200 or Orion-Tr charger????

I am having a lot of trouble finding a direct answer to the question of what is the recommended way to charge a Victron Smart 12,8/200-a lithium battery from an alternator.

Which should I use and why?

craigp asked
vanlifer007 commented ·

1 Answer

Non-Isolated vs Isolated Orion-Tr

Can anyone kindly give me a straight forward explantion to what is the difference between Non-Isolated vs Isolated Orion-Tr. I am trying to regulate the current coming from the starter battery/alternator to charge my 720AH 12v battery bank. at the moment they are connected via VSR which is not healthy i think :)

Many thanks

vanlifer007 asked
ripper edited ·

2 Answers

Van installation - alternator, dc-dc

Hi everyone,

In regards to the VE - VW Van solar installation video:

Where exactly are the connections to the alternator done

Is the dc-dc really necessary? is there something simpler?


Thanks,

Carlos


carloa asked

0 Answers

Supplying solar power to starter battery in a car

I am planning on adding a few 12 Volt accessories (like a small fridge) to my car and wanted to mount a Victron 75/15 MPPT directly to the starter battery as I do not have an auxiliary battery and do not plan on getting one. My intention with this is to allow my 90 AH starter battery to power a few 12 volt electronics when the engine is not working. Is it safe to set up the MPPT with the starter battery? Will my starter battery charge through the alternator (when the engine is running) like it normally would?

vomhorizon asked
vomhorizon commented ·

1 Answer

Argofet and MPPT compatibility question

HI guys,

Can someone with expertise with the Argofet help me, I want to add an Argofet to split charge my VRSLA start battery and my LFP house bank. Easy so far. I want to connect an MPPT controller to the input of the FET and utilize the alternator energize circuit to tell the MPPT that there is voltage. The solar controller needs to see voltage at the battery terminals or it wont start charging.

This is what I had in mind, will it work?

[image]


The following is from Victron ArgoFet documentation...


Alternator energize input
Some alternators need DC voltage on the B+ output to start charging.
Obviously, DC will be present when the alternator is directly connected to
a battery. Inserting a Diode or FET splitter will however prevent any
return voltage/current from the batteries to the B+, and the alternator will
not start.
The new Argofet isolators have a special current limited energize input
that will power the B+ when the engine run/stop switch is closed.

Jafa Russell asked
kogir edited ·

2 Answers

Orion TR Smart draining starter battery when engine is running at low RPM

Q: How to use the Orion TR Smart 12/30 when running at low RPM and the alternator cannot supply enough current?


Context:

I have recently upgraded to a lithium housebank, and just installed the Orion TR Smart 12/30 for alternator overheating protection and a better charging algorithm for my 'not so smart' Hitachti 80A alternator on my Yanmar engine.

Now this is what happens when running stationary:

  1. Engine start
  2. Start battery (input) voltage rises
  3. Orion TR considers engine has started, and starts charging
  4. Due to low RPM the alternator does not deliver 30A. The starter battery starts to supply the other (20?A) current. And the voltage drops a lot (just a simple lead start battery).
  5. Only after quite some time at 11.8V it considers the engine has stopped and then stops the charging.
  6. The voltage starts to rise again, and the Orion considers the engine to have started again, so the proces repeats.

Is this a common issue with engines running stationary? When I go for a daysail my engine runs more stationary then actually making RPM.

The only thing that would work for me would be that the Orion lowers the charging current when the voltage is dropping. But I guess that would be quite an advanced feature and is probably not built in.


My intermediate solution now is:

- Changed the settings that the input voltage lock is at 13.8V (in case the voltage drops below this, it looks that the alternator cannot supply enough current). This is more a 'safety setting' but of course leads to constant starting and stopping of charging.

- I have a manual switch , so that I can enable the charging only when I have enough RPM

But I would prefer a fit and forget solution. I considered switching to a lower output version of the Orion, but that it would take forever to get some energy in my batteries. Maybe there is another product that could solve this?


See the alternator details in the attached image.

[image]

emarges asked
bricky commented ·

0 Answers

Orion-Tr Smart 12v 18, overheating alternator?

Hey,


A follow up to my previous question Continuously outputting 25A:

So I have an old Volkswagen T2 from 1971 that I have mounted this in. The alternator is, I think, 55A (there are 75A versions, but those seem rare and I can't easily check). From what I've been told by other enthusiasts there are often about 15A left over once the starter battery, lights and what not have had their needs satsified.


That's the information that I based by purchase of the Orion-Tr Smart 18 on (in tandem with recommendations from my Victron dealer). However, now that I know that the actual output may be greater than 18A and that I can see in the Bluetooth app for my batter that it is constantly receiving 25A when I'm running the engine I'm worried that this might overload the alternator.


I would appreciate any guidance I can get on this and if there's anything I can do to verify or check so that I'm not blowing up my alternator. My fear is based on this video by Victron.


Edit: The alternator is rated for 55A.


Best,

- Simon

simme asked
jwfrary commented ·

1 Answer

Choosing a DC-DC charger - truck camper with LiFePO4

I'm looking into buying a DC-DC charger for my truck camper, but I'm unsure which one. Here are the details of my setup:

- Truck: 6.5L diesel engine with 100A alternator, 2 AGM starter batteries (12V parallel)

- Camper: 200Ah LiFePO4 batteries, 8AWG wiring on the DC input

- Alternator outputs around 13.5V, LiFePO4 batteries need around 14.5V (i.e. stepping up the voltage is a must)

Based on those details, it seems like the Orion-Tr Smart 12/12-30 would fit the bill, but I'm concerned about the following:

1. Does the Orion-Tr Smart require a remote connection to operate, or can it switch on and off based on input voltage reading alone? I'm going to install the charger on the camper, so I won't have access to the ignition switch, so the only way to determine if the motor is running is by measuring the input voltage - can the Orion-Tr Smart do that?

2. Is 30A reasonable for 8AWG wiring with a 100A alternator? It seems to me like it would be OK, but the charger will be far from the alternator (probably around 5-10m of wire).

3. Is the Orion-Tr Smart the most cost-effective solution for my use case? Another option is the Orion-Tr (without the smart part), but I'm not sure if it can handle LiFePO4 charging.

Thanks in advance to anyone who can help me with this!

theodk asked
granada commented ·

2 Answers

Prefer PV MPPT over Alternator DC Charging for mobile aplication.

My situation is this. I have a large PV array 2600 watts running into two 100|50 MPPT charge controllers, I have 2x 3000|24 Multiplus inverters, BMV702 and a raspberry pie connecting it all together running Venus OS. I also have a 260 amp 24v DC alternator onboard that will charge the battery bank and help power loads.


My question is, how can I force the PV / MMPT chargers to always output if there is a draw on the system. I have set my alternator to charge to 27.8v while my MPPT chargers charge to 28.4 (temp compensated) . Often times I'll run two air conditioners, using close to 3000 watts. If my battery bank is not full and the MPPT chargers are still in bulk mode, it will work pretty well with the chargers continuing to contribute to the loads and the battery bank will fill. However once the bank is near full the MPPTs throttle down and the alternator takes more of the AC load, which puts my strain on my diesel engine costing me fuel and power.


With the tools at my disposal here, how can I have the MPPT chargers contribute even if the battery bank is full. I thought a few years ago the DVCC used to work this way and it would trigger the chargers to assist.


Thanks for any help you can provide.

neoneddy asked
dazey77 answered ·

4 Answers

Alternator Charge Current Estimate at 13.8 Volts

Hi,

I am planning the upgrades to lithium for my motor home. And I'm trying to estimame and budget for whether I NEED a battery to battery charger or if I can get away with just alternator charing through the BMS.

Looking to start with:

1 x Victron Lithium 12V - 100Ah Smart and CL BMS 12/100

I know i can limit the current using fuses on this BMS to protect my alternator.

Reading the litrature for the battery it recomends charge voltage of 14V to 15V. 14.2 being needed for cell ballance.

I'm only getting 13.8 volts from my alternator and I'm worried I wont be able to charge (or top up ) by lithium batterys without adding a B2B which can boost the voltage.

My question to anyone who can help me is:
My alternator only puts out 13.8 volts.

Will I still be able to charge the lithium pack at a sensible rate with a marginal voltage difference and below the recomended charge 14.0 charge suggetion?


I'd like to be able to top off the batteries at 50Amps from the alternator - is this feasable without boosting the voltage using a b2b?


Not knowing the internal resistance of the lithium pack I can't calculate the sort of charge current I could expect.

Does anyone have some first hand guidance of charging from alternators of lower voltage ?



thanks for the help

regards

Tony.


tonyjobson asked
kevp answered ·

1 Answer

How to measure two DC Inputs On CCGX

I am looking to install a Victron system on my RV that will be using a third-party DC-DC charger to charge 48v house batteries from the vehicle's 12v alternator. If I were to connect this charger through a dedicated BMV battery monitor (with a second one for the system's DC loads), is there any way to have one show up as an "alternator" input on the CCGX display screen?


I know I could connect it through the BMV-700 and presumably just have the CCGX show it as power flowing from the "DC loads" box to the battery. My primary concern is ease-of-use for the end user, so I would greatly appreciate any way to configure thte CCGX for this display.

chase-martin asked
48v-on-56north answered ·

3 Answers

ASS000001000 temperature sensor range

What is the operating range of the ASS000001000 temp sensor for the Venus GX? I am wondering if it can be used to monitor alternator temperature (up to 130° C).

mike-g asked
mike-g answered ·

2 Answers

Victron SuperPack 12,8v 100Ah and a 140A alternator

Hi everyone,


Just bought a Victron SuperPack 12,8v 100Ah battery, this battery has the BMS integrated this is the reason why I chose it.

This battery will be installed in my camper van as a leisure battery, but a big question question come to mind, will my 140A alternator sustain the charging load.

From the battery's technical datasheet, it only pulls up to 50Amps when charging, but is this really the case ?

Since this battery has a BMS of its own, does it control the current pulled when charging ?

Can this limited charging current be set in the battery's BMS via the mobile app?

Will I need a DC to DC charger in-between the alternator and the battery ?

By the way, the alternator is a Valeo 439753 which is regulated and I currently have an 80Ah battery as my main battery and also a split charger relay.


Thank you in advance for you response


Philippe

philouteke asked
philouteke commented ·

2 Answers

How does Cyrix-Li-ct work?

I just replaced my original battery combiner with the Victron Cyrix-Li-ct. I tied the small read lead to both my dashboard wire (AUX START) and to AM Solar's AMS Lithium Control Module v4.2 to the ALT + and - connectors.

Can someone explain to me how this relay is supposed to work? I have 3 typical scenerios: (1) vehicle running (class A motorcoach) with no solar, (2) shore power and (3) dry camping with plenty of solar.

Is this a "one-way" solenoid? Are both lithium batteris and chassis batteries affected in the above scenerios?

I've included the data sheet from Victron for your refereance.

Datasheet-Cyrix-Li-ion-230-A-EN.pdf

edgargw22 asked
abogaard commented ·

3 Answers

A Victron - Mastervolt Hybrid System?

Hello everyone.

Has anyone built a Victron - Mastervolt hybrid system? Why not select the best elements from both if building a solar/lithium battery system for a boat from scratch? Victron’s open-systems approach enables this.

I’m designing a lithium battery system for a sailing yacht, currently under construction. Basic parameters are: ~1200Ah of lithium batteries; 1200W of solar panels; combined inverter/charger with shore power connection; no generator but twin alternators; worldwide sailing program including Arctic/Antarctic environments.

I’ve been looking closely at Victron and Mastervolt systems, along with batteries from other suppliers. I’ve been struggling to reconcile a few concerns.

While I’m happy with most elements of a Victron system, weaknesses are:

- integration and control of alternators. While Victron offers modules that can shield lithium batteries and alternators from each others’ damaging tendencies, it doesn’t provide a fully integrated method for controlling alternators, so that they can deliver ideal battery charging.

- the low IP22 rating of the batteries. IP22 might stop small rocks and drips of water from getting into the batteries, however, these will be installed in the bilge area of a rocking and rolling sailing yacht. Hmmm. :-/

- a Victron lithium battery warranty will be voided by any charging below 5℃. The yacht will be used in Arctic and Antarctic locations, where water temperatures down to 1 or 2℃ are higher than air temperatures. To take advantage of this the hull is uninsulated below the waterline. Keeping the batteries warm will not always be convenient, but catching what sunlight is available will always be important.

Some problems with Mastervolt's offerings are:

- solar charge controllers. Mastervolt’s range is small and performance of the best candidate is insufficient.

- system programming and monitoring. Mastervolt’s software for programming system elements is effective but is far less user friendly than Victron’s. Mastervolt’s monitoring and control displays are less convenient. Victron’s options for Bluetooth interfacing, with Apple iOS and OS X apps and software is a big plus. The ease of interpreting energy flows via Victron’s GX devices can’t be matched by Mastervolt’s presentation of discrete numbers.

I’m thinking that an ideal hybrid system for my yacht, using the best of both makers, will be to ask the builder's electrical engineer to install:

From Victron:
- Cerbo GX and GX Touch 50, for system status display including tanks and pumps and to control charging via DVCC
- MultiPlus 12/3000/120-50
- Smart Solar MPPT 100/50 (x3)
- SmartShunt 1000
- Phoenix IP43 24/25 charger, for bowthruster battery charging

From Mastervolt:
- 3 x 12/5500 MLI lithium batteries (400Ah each). IP65 protection rating! No warranty voiding by charging below 5℃. With 3 x BlueSeas ML RBS safety switches - to cut loads and charging in the one unit, which also has a manual isolation switch. Brilliant! And a Blue Seas ML ACR battery combiner - to charge both house and engine-start batteries from alternators
- 2 x AlphaPro III alternator regulators - programmable for Bulk, Absorption and Float charging. Better and easier than Balmar's offerings I think.
- MasterShunt - to send battery voltage and temperature data to the alternator regulators (might not need this if the regulators can get this data directly from the Mastervolt batteries via Masterbus)
- Masterbus to USB adapter - to enable programming via MasterAdjust software and effing Windows.

This thread advises that using two shunts will work. This will be important, so please speak up if you can see a problem.

DVCC should work. Victron's GX devices appear to be battery agnostic. I don't plan to connect the Mastervolt batteries to the Cerbo's BMSbus port, but doing so might be a future project.

Thoughts? Comments? Suggestions?

Thank you.

Edit on 28 Apr 2020. A thought is that I can get the great performance of the Mastervolt AlphaPro III alternator regulators without necessarily needing the Mastervolt batteries. All I need is the Mastervolt shunt, which will communicate with the regulators and keep the alternators safe, performing well and charging the batteries well. This means I can use Victron lithium batteries if desired. That's handy.

valden asked
valden edited ·

2 Answers

Correct Installation of smartshunt, solar and alternator

Hi,

i nearly finished my electrical system in my van but still have a question regarding the correct installation of the alternator in the system. I have the Victron Smartshunt 500A.

My question is:

Do i connect the minus-output of the alternator via the carbody directly to my battery (see my diagram: 2) or to the smartshunt (1 in the diagram)?


Is it bad, if my battery has the only connection to the ground/body via the smartshunt?

Thanks!


[image]

lokus asked
lokus answered ·

3 Answers

Cerbo GX, DVCC and combined charging from Multi, MPPTs and alternator. How measured?

Hello all.


I have some curly questions on using a Cerbo GX and Distributed Voltage and Current Control (DVCC) to manage the system described below.


The yacht installation I’m preparing will have four Victron 12.8V 300Ah Smart LiFePO4 batteries, arranged in parallel. Their overall voltage will be sensed by a SmartShunt, connected to the Cerbo by VE.Direct. The batteries’ 3 Pole Balance Temperature & Voltage (BTV) cables will be daisy-chained to a Smart BMS CL 12-100. This BMS will control a Smart Battery-Protect 220 via its Load Disconnect terminal. The BMS will also control a Cyrix-Li-Charge 120 via its Charge Disconnect terminal. Three Smart MPPT 100/50 solar charge controllers will send current from 1200W of solar panels to the batteries through the Cyrix. The MPPTs will connect to the Cerbo by VE.Direct-to-USB adapters, into a USB hub and then to one of the Cerbo’s USB ports. Another job the BMS will do is regulate battery charging from a 115A alternator.


The system will include a MultiPlus 12/3000/120-50 inverter/charger, connected to the Cerbo by VE.Bus. Current from the MultiPlus will not be routed through either the Smart Battery Protect 220 or the Cyrix-Li-Charge 120, to avoid damaging those with flow in both directions.


I’ve read Victron’s explanations of DVCC, along with relevant discussions here in the Community. I’m satisfied it will work. What I think will happen (and not happen) is:


- the Cerbo will take the battery voltage sensed by the shunt and assess this in terms of what it was told the batteries are, during setup;


- it will look up its program library of how these batteries like to be treated and will instruct the MPPTs and the MultiPlus how they should serve up amps for charging, or draw on them for inverting;


- when the Cerbo assesses that the battery voltage reported by the shunt is getting low, it will tell the MultiPlus to stop inverting;


- the Cerbo will not be able to stop the DC loads from drawing upon the batteries, as it has no data connection to the BMS or the battery-protect. These two will use their load-disconnect linkage to cut the loads when one of the batteries says ‘Stop!’;


- if something goes wrong and the Cerbo doesn’t succeed in stopping the MPPTs from charging, the BMS will step in when the batteries ask it to and stop the charging via its charge-disconnect link to the Cyrix;


- however, if something goes wrong and the Cerbo doesn’t succeed in stopping the MultiPlus from charging, there’s nothing in the system or the setup to cut it off. I assume that the MultiPlus will not stop itself from charging, given it’s been told to be dumb and work under DVCC rules. Perhaps I could add a Cerbo controlled relay as a back-up, to switch off the MultiPlus if it goes feral?


Please set me straight if any of the above is off-beam.


*****


Some aspects I’m less clear on are:


- will the shunt report the overall charging current from the MPPTs, the MultiPlus and the alternator, such that the Cerbo might instruct the MultiPlus and the MPPTs to ease-off or stop?


- if the batteries are full, does the BMS have the ability to throttle the current from the alternator? Checking … . Yes, it does.


- and last but not least …


… the Cerbo GX has a second pair of CAN-bus ports, called BMS.Can. Little is written about these, other than how they can be used to hook up other-brand CAN-bus BMS equipped batteries or BMSs. So how good would it be to have Victron lithium batteries that can talk directly to a Cerbo over CAN-bus? :-D Has Victron said these are on the way, or ruled them out for some reason?

valden asked
valden edited ·

3 Answers

Alternator w/ WS500 and Victron Venus or Cerbo

I love the Victron Venus system and would love to upgrade to the Cerbo (if i can every get my hands on one). I'm currently in the process of upgrading our alternator on our yacht. For this we will use a WS500 regulator which has the ability to get data from the victron BMV shunt in order to control voltage and Amperage coming from the alternator.


My question: is there anyway to see only alternator output through a venus or cerbo device? I know that the WS500 has a CAN bus but i would be unsure how these two devices would communicate or if there would be any way to display that information. It would be very helpful to understand what all the charging systems are doing (solar, wind, alternators, etc) on a single screen.

I do believe the answer is, no, there is no way to do this but i figure i would ask before i close the door to the idea.

polarseal asked
Paul B answered ·

1 Answer

With the Smart BMS CL 12V 100A, is a VE.Bus BMS still needed?

Hello everyone.

For the lithium battery system on my yacht I've been planning to use a VE.Bus BMS to manage and protect the batteries. Now that I've been made aware of the Smart BMS CL 12V 100A, which I will use to protect the diesel engine's alternator from having the life sucked out of it by four big lithium batteries, I'm wondering if the VE.Bus BMS is still needed?

The Smart BMS CL 12V 100A has the same three control outputs as the VE.Bus BMS; load-disconnect, charge-disconnect and pre-alarm. So it can handle those jobs. But it doesn't have the VE.Bus BMS' mains detect cable connector. Perhaps this function isn't needed?

Does the MultiPlus inverter/charger need the mains detection connection?

Does the Cerbo GX need the mains detection connection, via the MultiPlus?

It's looking like I can adopt the new Smart BMS CL 12V 100A, drop the VE.Bus BMS and also drop the mains detector.

Thoughts?

This Smart BMS CL 12V 100A could well be the best thing since sliced bread. :-)


valden asked
valden commented ·

1 Answer

Followers

60 Posts
109 Users
1 Follower

Topic Experts

There are no topic experts for this topic. Participate in the posts in this topic to earn reputation and become an expert.