ac out 2 Image

ac out 2

Critical Loads

Hi,

Is the critical Loads AC Out (AC Out 2) terminal bi-directional?

If I want to keep my complete house AC distribution board powered during a power cut but also fully utilising the solar and battery power stored when grid is available do I just wire one circuit from my house DB to the Mulit I AC Out AC 2?

If so are there any restrictions to the Multiplus that I can expect from wiring the complete house DB through AC Out 2?

NeilBridgeman asked
Alexandra rolled back ·

2 Answers

ESS: Using AC OUT 2 for water heating, but only when battery is full and enought solar power is available

Hello,
I think I've seen this scenario in an explaination video but I cannot find it any more. I'm talking about an ESS System with Mutliplus 2 and Venus GX.

I want to do the following:

1) When I have enough solar power left, so the battery is full and I would feed into the grid more than 3000W

2) Then activate AC Out (a heating element in a boiler) if the boiler temperature is under a certain value.

Is there a possibility to do that? If yes, how?

thanks,

Florian


florianro asked
Rob Duthie commented ·

2 Answers

Ignore AC and DVCC

I have recently installed solar panels on my motoryacht. I am now looking for the most economical use of the solar panels, also in order to reduce the cost of shore power. The electrical system has mainly Victron components, except the panels and battery: Quattro 8000/200, Venus GX, MPPT 100/30, 720 Ah tubular plate batteries and 2 x LG Neon R 370 Wp panels, latest firmwares.

I have studied all the manuals and looked for answers on the community site. Although I see similar setups, I still do not have the ultimate answer on how to use the panels the most economical, either by using Ignore AC, DVCC, lower float voltage or a combination of these.

I fully understand how Ignore AC in VEConfigure works and have now set it up according to below screenshot:

[image]

I have been to the yacht today and have tested it with several loads. When using heavy load, the Quattro will deliver the power instead of drawing it from the battery, so it does not unnecessarily drain too much, which would take forever for the panels to charge back into the battery. There is a certain amount of equipment that draws about average 200 W, so in a day I will loose 4.8 kW. On sunny days the panels will charge with about 4.8-5.1 kW. So on cloudy days and near winter time the batteries will slowly deplete and when voltage reaches 23.5 V, the Quattro will kick in and charge (with max 100 A) up to when bulk is finished (85 % SOC). I might change that in wintertime to when absorption is finished, as the batteries need to be fully charged every once in a while. So far so good.

The manual of the MPPT states that the DVCC function will result in the MPPT being an active controller in the system. "For systems with lead batteries, DVCC offers features such as a
configurable system wide charge current limit, where the GX device actively limits the
inverter/charger in case the solar chargers are already charging at full power". I have tried the DVCC feature (without Ignore AC) with a setting of 100 A for max charging and shared voltage, current and temperature sense.
I have observed the behaviour of MPPT and Quattro for a long time and my impression is that the MPPT does not always do what it should. I can see the Quattro charging with high amps and the panels with relatively low. When I switch off the shore power, the panels immediately jump to a much higher charge, so the panels are under DVCC not used with maximum capacity. I would also expect that when batteries are full and loads are low, while panels can produce more than the load, that the Quattro might stop charging all together.

An expert advised to lower the float voltage of the Quattro with 1 V, After lowering that setting to 26.6 V, I saw this morning at around 08.00 hrs that the Quattro stopped charging. Not completely sure why?

I have gathered my thoughts and I think I have to options: 1) use Ignore AC and 2) use DVCC. With option 1, it will deplete the battery more and I think the panels are used most economical, but I need to make sure the batteries are getting a full charge every once in a while. With option 2, the batteries are kept a full charge (100 %)., but I have the impression the panels are not used to the max and the Quattro will only stop charging when the voltage of the batteries is higher than the 26.6 V. Which brings me to the question do I also need to lower the absorption voltage in order for the Quattro to stop charging when in absorption fase in order to get the max charge out of the panels? I find lowering these setting in contradiction to the DVCC manual: "Limit charge current. This is a user-configurable maximum charge current setting. It works across the whole system. MPPT Solar Chargers are automatically prioritized over the mains/generator".

By the way: I use the AC out 2 of the Quattro for heavy users, with the intention that when I loose shore power (while sailing [do you actually sail, drive or operate a motor yacht?]), it automatically switches of the heavy consumers and I will not unnecessarily deplete the batteries. With Ignore AC while still in the harbour, I loose the heavy consumers as the Quattro needs AC on either AC In 1 (generator) or AC In 2 (shore power). I probably have to rewire the heavy consumers to AC In 1.

My questions:

1) Why does the Quattro stop charging when lowering float voltage when panels are charging?

2) Do I need to lower the float voltage in order for the Quattro to stop charging while enabled DVCC?

3) Why is DVCC not using maximum available charge from the solar panels?

4) Do I also need to lower the absorption voltage while DVCC enabled so the Quattro stops charging in absorption fase to maximum use the charge of the panels

5) Can I, or should I, use DVCC in combination with Ignore AC?

Any comment, suggestions, answers are welcome.

I have also published about the installation of the electrical system and the solar panels on my weblog (in Dutch, but has Google translate button): www.xanthiona.com .

jurjenhoekstra asked
jurjenhoekstra commented ·

1 Answer

Multiplus, running espresso machine on inverter and AC on generator on the same ACOut port?

Hi, my air conditioner is wired in my motor home with all other 240V, I can not separate it to connect to 12/3000 Multis ACout-2, which would allow 'drop load, if generator runs out of fuel'. Daniel showed me an assistant, how to start the AC on generator, on ACout-2 . But on ACout-2 none 240V appliances will run using inverter, so I still have to use my external switch to switch 240V from normal use ACout-1 espresso machine on inverter to battery safe ACout-2, to run the air con on generator.

Does ACout-2 has the ability to use the inverter too? Can we configure the assistant to use inverter until ACin becomes available, once ACin becomes available, use it, which is ACout-1 setup so far.

And then ... 'drop load if ACin becomes unavailable, and never return to inverter until inverter ... until restart of the Multi?

Would be nice to have a way to remotely switch between ACOut 1 and 2, so this would be a workaround. Otherwise I have to lay heavy 2.5 mm 3 core underneath the hole truck to the inside.

thanks for an idea :)


NiceTrip asked
NiceTrip answered ·

3 Answers

Multiplus secondary outlet

Can the secondary output be turned on remotely? For example, if I want to run my water heater off the inverter, but I have it on the secondary outlet, can I turn it on via bluetooth?


CappyJax asked

0 Answers

How can I cut off AC-Out 2 in an AC-PV Coupled System based on Battery SOC?
  • From one of the recent vidoes on the Victron Professional trainings, "Coupled AC PV Inverter Introduction", @ Guy Stewart talked about the Optimal AC PV off-grid configuration and that would fix a challenge I have at an off-grid site that has AC-PV Configuration but no DC. Please how will I configure AC-Out 2 to cut off when the battery SOC goes lower than a particular threshold. Will I use virtual switch?
  • The system is actually working fine, it's just that once in a while when the batteries gets drained, and the Quattro shuts down, the Fronius Inverter can not come up until the generator is put on. Adding a charge controller and solar panels will fix this but the client isn't ready for such expenses yet.
  • On that site I have installed:
  • 5kVA Quattro
  • 5kW Fronius Primo
  • 5000Wp of solar panels
  • 13.8kWh BYD
  • CcGX
  • I'll appreciate any help I can get from @Guy Stewart or anyone who knows how to do this. Thanks

Vicstix asked

0 Answers

Multiplus - AC-1 AC-2 switch over for Aircon start on genset

Hi, I have a Multiplus in a motor home. All AC was connected to AC-1. Problem was, if somebody pulls the power lead or the generator runs out of fuel in the night, the Multiplus switches to battery and might discharge them too much. AC-2 drops the load in that case, but because its to sensitive, I can't use it to start the AC on the 'at start' unnoticable fluctuating generator.

Its a nearly new Honda EU2000i, perfect for the load.

So I installed an external switch that lets me switch the AC load from AC-1 to AC-2 after a few minutes, ones the generator is running acceptable for AC-2.

I am about to extend the switch with adequate cables to the inside.

Question: Is that a known problem and does it has a solution already?

Is there a config setting I can change?

thanks :)

NiceTrip asked
NiceTrip answered ·

4 Answers

3 phase Microgrid with Fronius (AC and DC coupled) Output 2

I was wondering how the Output 2 on a Quattro or Multiplus 3 phase micro-grid with Fronius works. If the Fronius is on Output 1, how do the Victron inverters make Output 2 operate? Does it operate as it normally does in a normal three phase installation without Fronius?

James asked

0 Answers

Can I change the Quattro AC OUT 2 Time delay?

Is it possible to change the delay which it takes for AC out 2 to go live?


I have contactors which are being driven by AC OUT 2, but when the grid or generator input is live (after a mains failure or return) it takes around 2 and a half minutes for AC2 to go live, and hence close the contactors... Is there any way to change this to 30 seconds for instance?

EwaldErasmus asked
Harold answered ·

1 Answer

No second AC out on Multiplus 24/3000/70/16

I just had to find out that I had installed a Multiplus 24/3000/70/16 at a customer that had no second exit. I did not pay attention because it was not a topic so far. Now my question. How long has there been a second exit on this model? I suspected that the dealer had turned on an old model to me. Is it possible that it's a demo model or something?

Ship Tyr asked
Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) commented ·

2 Answers

Can I make AC OUT 2 active on inverting (Quatro)

I would like to have the possibility to switch on AC OUT 2 under specific circumstances.

Battery's full, normal alternator is on for a long time etc

I see similar questitions, but I cannot find how to setup Assistanst or VS for this.

Harold

Harold asked
Harold commented ·

2 Answers

Quattro - why install a breaker on AC output?

Have a single 230v 50hz victron Quattro 10,000VA. AC output 1 is supplying a small AC Panel. The AC Panel has a 63A inlet breaker and RCD, and dedicated breakers for each consumer. There are no other supplies into this AC Panel.

The Quattro manual advises the following "An earth leakage circuit breaker and a fuse or circuit breaker rated to support the expected load must be included in series with output L1, and cable cross-section must be sized accordingly."

In the technical specifications part of the same manual, it advises that there is automatic short circuit, and overload protection. My question is, if these safety features are built in, why must there be a breaker on the AC output side of this inverter??.


Thanks.





James Kinton asked
Evonet answered ·

2 Answers

Grid parallel load vs. AC out 2

Good-day. I am trying to understand the difference between a "grid parallel load" and a load on "AC out 2" when using a Quattro or a Multiplus in ESS mode. Clearly, the inverter does not even know there is a grid parallel load unless it is configured to do so and there is an energy meter attached to measure the power flow at the grid input. (Any guidance on how to configure these aspects would be welcome). I have attempted to list the characteristics below - feel free to correct me :-


Load on AC out 2.

Powered firstly by the inverter (until the combined "AC out 1" + "AC out 2" exceeds the inverter capacity) and then by AC mains as well. The combined load must not exceed the rating of the transfer switch.

If the AC mains falls away, the AC out 2 is cut off.

Provides a way to make use of excess Solar PV yield on non-critical loads.


Grid Parallel Load

Powered firstly by the grid (under normal curcumstances does not require any additional capacity from the inverter).

Normally, the inverter drives the loads on AC out 1 (and AC out 2) as required. Under some configured conditions (not eactly clear how), the inverter starts to "push" power out of "AC in" and thus contribute to this grid parallel load. It can supply this load completely such that no power is drawn from the mains supply. The energy meter can be used to regulate the amount of power supplied via "AC in" so that it is equal to, but does not exceed, the grid parallel load.


Is there any guidance as to which approach can or should be used under which conditions.

Thanks,

John Hope-Bailie

johnhb asked
johnhb commented ·

1 Answer

ACOut2 Relay Strange behaviour on brief power cut with assistant.

I think I might be doing something wrong but I've seen some strange behavior with my ACOut2 Relay. I have an assistant that disengages the ACOut2 relay if ACIn2 (Grid) fails. Now you might wonder why because it's the default behavior anyway. ACIn1 is my Generator Input and when the Generator runs I want ACOut2 also to be disconnected. The Generator ONLY runs when there is no Grid power so the logic seems right. It's also a manual start generator so I decide when to power it up (usually only after very long outages).

It all works perfectly except it 'looks' like in a very specific situation it does not work at all.

Here is the scenario: We have somewhat unstable power where I live, every now and then we have a very brief power cut and then it goes back to Grid power. My Quattro detects this brief power cut and switches to Inverting Mode. Soon afterwards the Quattro switches back to Grid power.

I have my gas stove connected to ACOut2 so I can see if the clock goes off or starts flashing '12:00' after a proper power failure but this brief cut it doesn't, meaning the ACOut2 Relay assistant does not disable the relay when the brief power cut is detected.

My two assistants logic states (and also in this order):

Disable ACOutRelay2 when ACIn2 (Grid) Is Not Available for 0s.

Enable ACOutRelay2 when ACIn2 (Grid) Is Available for 30s.

Here is my question:
Is there a time delay that an Assistant is triggered? Could the brief power cut be too short for the Assistant to run but be long enough for the Inverter to kick in and run from batteries? The reason I ask is that when in a high load situation with my Pool Pump, Geysers etc. running is around 6800W we had such a brief power cut and the system started to give overload warnings. Checking VRM it 'looks' like everything on ACOut1 and ACOut2 was powered from the batteries for a good couple of minutes and then the load on ACOut2 dropped off somehow. Is this at all possible? Should the Assistant not trigger at the same time the Inverter sees a power failure?

Ingo

Ingo asked
Ingo commented ·

1 Answer

Do I need an AC Breaker between inverter and appliances?

Our setup is very small. We bought a Multiplus 800 to power 2 AC outlets on the boat. These outlets power one Laptop one coffee machine. :)

Can the 2 AC outlets be connected directly to the inverter AC output? Or do we need to install a circuit breaker between the Inverter and 2 AC outlets?

zuzullo asked
kai commented ·

3 Answers

ESS questions - and measuring power on AC-out2 / non essential loads

Hi all

I have:

  • 1x Quattro 48/8000/110-100/100
  • 1x CCGX
  • 2x Solar MD 3.7 with DataloggerV2
  • 2x Solis 4kW G4 1ph Grid-Tie Inverter, each with a ET112
  • extra ET112 for measuring AC-OUT2;


I want too:

  • See power output on essential and non-essential loads on CCGX and VRM;
  • be able to close the relay on AC-OUT2 in an off-grid environment (load shedding) and power non-essential loads if there is enough power available from PV;
  • In On-grid periods power both AC-OU1 and AC-OUT2 with PV first;
  • Only charge batteries from PV

I want too see who has done something like this, and get feedback and collaborate please.


Issues arrived:

  • Will the Solis inverters give an error during in off-grid if a CT clamp is configured? The theory is it should use the CT clamp during on-grid and frequency shifting from the Quattro during off-grid to regulate power output. Was advised it should not give an error, will give feedback, we are close to powering up the PV;
    • Since i started this post some feedback came back, Solis said there is a 'Fail-safe - Disabled" i have to select to avoid this error;
  • I am using ESS, so non-essential loads is displayed as next to the grid with an icon on a CCGX, which is fine. Please correct me if i am wrong, but my understanding is that ESS wants to only use AC-OUT1 with a ET112 on the grid input, so all power via inverter will be considered essential loads, and the difference between that and the meter, will be displayed on non-essential loads. Since my requirement is to power AC-OUT2 loads in daytime and if the PV is strong (still not sure how we will be configuring this, will get to it later) I had to connect the non-essentials on AC-OUT2 instead of leaving it on the DB as the manual suggest. My biggest question is how do i program the CCGX to display the AC-OUT2 on the CCGX/VRM with a ET112? The only options are inputs (Grid, Generator and PV Inverter, the last one i will be using for the Solis PV Output).
  • Assistance to program the Quattro to only charge batteries from PV;
  • I found assistance to program AC-OUT2 to close during Off-grid here: https://community.victronenergy.com/questions/1343/enabling-multi-ac-output-2-during-grid-outage.html

I did possibly miss something in the manuals, so please just direct me to the correct one should that be the case;

Schalk van der Merwe asked
Schalk van der Merwe commented ·

4 Answers

Measuring AC-out 2

Is it possible to measure AC-out 2, so it is displayed seperately from AC-out 1?

I want to see both AC-out 2 and AC-out 1 on the remote console?

TiaanGreensun asked
TiaanGreensun commented ·

2 Answers

Can I control AC OUT 2 if AC IN is available?

Hi,

I use the following assistants:

[image]

[image]

If no AC Input available, the logic works well. However, if there is AC Input 1 or 2, the AC Out 2 is active (voltage on) after some minutes whether or not AUX2 is open or closed.

I can hear the internal relay opening or closing following the logic above but the AC OUT 2 remains active.

Therefore, it seems there is an internal logic which allows voltage on AC OUT2 if ACIN 1 or 2 are available after some minutes.

I use a system with Quattro 48/5000/70-100/100 120V.

Manual says this behaviour is normal so I wonder if controlling the relay of ACOUT2 only works when no ACIN is available, so in that case, ACOUT2 IS ALWAYS AVAILABLE AFTER 2 MINUTES IF AC IN IS AVAILABLE.

Can anyone confirm this to me, please?

Thanks in advance.

Tony Towers asked
Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) commented ·

1 Answer

Possible to connect two separate AC-coupled Quattro/PV inverter micro-grids over 1km apart

Two separate PV micro-grids (A and B) are at over 1km apart. We want to connect them so that they can support each other, particularly at night, when either A or B might shut down due to low battery. Assuming conductors can be specified that keep voltage drop within limits:

Would it be possible to connect the Quattros from AC OUT 2 (A/B) to AC IN 1 (B/A) as in first figure attached if (i) 'AC ignore' enabled on AC IN 1 (ii) no feeding in from AC IN 1 (A/B) back to AC OUT 2 (B/A) and (ii) no charging of battery from AC IN 1?

[image]

Or would a more feasible approach be to isolate one of the Quattros (e.g. A) from the AC loads using contactors and a PLC, to allow the other Quattro (B) to support the AC loads in micro-grid A? (second figure)

[image]

serg_soton asked
ejrossouw commented ·

2 Answers

Victron Mutiplus 3000V/24V (230v) AC 2 output voltage

Good Day,

My Inverter has 2 AC outputs , AC 1 and AC 2 . AC 1 reads 230V but AC 2 has a much lower voltage . Why is that? I wanted to connect my non-critical loads to AC 2 but its way too low.


Regards

Denzel asked
Margreet Leeftink (Victron Energy Staff) commented ·

2 Answers

Feeding Quattro with AC1 in and AC2 from the same power source

[image]

Good day everyone, am trying to limit my cabling length runs on a proposed installation, so i thought instead of getting GEN for AC1 In and GRID for AC2 In ..

instead get phase one Live and phase two Live from the output of a changeover to feed Quattro AC 1 In and AC2 In respectively and save the cost of running multiple cables.

Please advice. being racking my brain all day long.

Rendezvous Solar asked
JohnC answered ·

2 Answers

Circuit Breaker Sizing Quattro 48/3000/35 120V

AC-Out-2 has a CB requirement of 25A Max (to the sub-panel for non-ups loads).

-Understood this turns off when UPS powers loads.

What is the CB requirement for AC-Out-1 to the other leg (120VAC) of the sub-panel (UPS supported)?

Is this UPS load dependent? Do I use a 30A CB if I know the load to be <30Amp? Waht is the Max with 50A shore power in.

gerloffd asked
gerloffd commented ·

1 Answer

Solar feed to AC output 2 on a multiplus in ESS system

Does the solar array supply power through AC output 2 as well as AC output 1 when mains is available.


colin mackay asked
Tommas answered ·

1 Answer

EasySolar: Benefit of AC out 2 when PowerAssist is not used?

When not making use of PowerAssist, is there any benefit from having AC out 2?
I could connect the grid directly through a fuse with the load instead of connecting AC out 2 with the load.

Rainer asked
ejrossouw answered ·

3 Answers

100 volt AC ripple on DC side. Victron Multi Compact 12V/2000VA/80 Amp.

I have a 1000 Ah battery bank and have connected a Victron Multi Compact 12V/2000VA/80 Amp. On the battery poles I get between 50-100 V AC,

When disconnecting everything on the AC side, the AC on DC side dissapears, but hanging a loose 30 meter electric wire to the AC side of the system (wire only, no load), I get 50 V AC. With 300W load, I get about 100 volts.

Wires are 35 mm2 and the device is properly grounded.

1: Any idea what is wrong?

2: Will this dammage my batteries?

Hoping for answer :-)

Frithjof Plahte asked
mikeb answered ·

4 Answers

PV inverter on output side keeps falling out

[image]

Hi,


iam having a wierd thing here, my ABB inverter on the output side keeps on "falling - out" ,

the ABB is connected via Zigbee to the color and is connected to the AC-out of the quattro 8000



vrm : 19355

colorgx : v2.23

2x mppts : v1.37 (total of 4100wp)

ABB inverter of 4kw (total of 4400wp)

Max. feed in = 19A


someone an explanation?


thx kristof

Kristof G. asked
Kristof G. edited ·

1 Answer

ACout2 in ESS mode

Hello,

I am aware ACout2 will only work when there is AC present on the input. What is not clear is if battery power will be used? The customer has some loads on ACout2 but in some instances wants to maximise the energy drawn from solar and the battery. I am not sure if it will just power these from the mains or not?

Stevo07 asked
Stevo07 commented ·

2 Answers

AC Output stops at 47.8 Volts

I have currently 2 running systems in Tanzania: the first with a Quattro 48V/10000VA/140A and Sonneschein A602/2600Ah battery bank; the second with a Quattro 48V/15000VA/200A and Sonneschein A602/39020Ah battery bank.

As soon as the battery voltage of the first system drops below +/- 47.8 Volts, the inverter will stop which results in a AC output cut. However, battery SOC might be still around 70-75%. This could happen sometimes several times per night. For every interruption, I receive a notification on the CCGX:

[image]


Example: last night we had 2 interruptions:

[image]

[image]

Note that the battery voltage was around 47.8 V just before the interruption and around 49.02V during the output break.

With my second setup (48V/15000VA/200A and 3920Ah batteries) I have never experienced this problem so far. Even not when the batteries dropped last week under 46 Volts with battery SOC 53%:

[image]

Anybody any clue on how to solve this issue?
Thanks a lot!

brambaut asked
mvader (Victron Energy) commented ·

4 Answers

EasySolar [AC out 2] does it use grid power?

Does the [AC out 2] use the grid power or will it us power generated by PV when there is grid power available? (I know that if grid power is off it is switched off)

Bebobwolf asked
WKirby answered ·

1 Answer

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