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Lithium battery Smart

Smart Battery un-balancing zero load

Hi Everyone,


I recently got a 100Ah smart battery. On initial receiving the battery before i took it out of the box cell #2 and #3 were 0.3 Volt lower than the Cells #1 and #4.

This was a bigger difference than i expected on a brand new premium battery but I figured it was within tolerance.

I've ran the battery on a very slow charge and got all cells balanced to within 0.01 V.

I've used the battery a for one small discharge test of maybe 15 or 20% taken out of the batteries.

let the charger recharge back up to 100% and it was balanced within 0.1V across all cells after the charger went into float.


I've now left the battery and charger in float for 2 days and I'm back to a cell voltage difference of 0.05 V in just 2 days with no load on the battery at all.


0.05 V in-balance in 2 days with no load looks very poor.

This worries me. it looks like i might have a couple of bad cells.

Any thoughts?



TonyJobson asked

0 Answers

Smart Lithium Battery in Series not Balancing

we have 4 Smart Lithiums batteries 12.8V in Two Strings parallel in Series for an 25,6 V Systems. We have charged all Batteries to 14.2v and then put them togehter. After 30 days the Batteries at the negative Side get charged between 14.27 to 14.35 and the Batteries on the positive Side get charged only between 13.98 to 14.07.

After 8h of balancing the difference is getting better but only a little bit. We tested all Connections and Charched the Batteries again seperatly.

But the Problem is still there. Now our Victron Dealer told us to install an Balancer!!!

Mardhin asked
Bathnm commented ·

1 Answer

LiFePO4 Smart Midpoint Monitoring and Battery Balancer

Hi,

is there anything to be gained monitoring the mid point voltage, or using a battery balancer, with 2x 12.8v Lithium batteries in series and a ve.bus BMS with Venus?


cheers,

JT

JasonTav asked
mvader (Victron Energy) commented ·

2 Answers

Brand new LiFePO4 with low temp alarm out of the box

I bought 4 Victron 200A Smart LiFePO4 batteries and one of them has a low temperature alarm on the Bluetooth app right out of the box. It is obviously a false alarm since it's alarming for -162 degrees Fahrenheit! Of course that alarm will trigger self-protection and not allow charging. I've also inquired through my dealer, but is this something that has been seen before? Is it fixable? Like by Victron support remotely zapping it with a firmware update or something (maybe wishful thinking)? Or will I need a replacement? The other three show "Ready for Use". Any insight is greatly appreciated. I'm on a time crunch in getting this installation completed, so the thought of one of the batteries being faulty and needing replacement is less than ideal.


[image]


Same screen with alert acknowledged to show cell status:


[image]


One of the other 3 "good" batteries:


[image]


stgermain45 asked
stgermain45 commented ·

1 Answer

How do you control the MPPTs in a system with a VE.Bus BMS and a Venus GX device?

Hi,

If I have a ve.bus BMS connected to venus, along with some MPPTs also connected to venus, does venus integrate with the BMS and shut down the MPPT chargers in the case of over voltage?

OR

do you have to connect the MPPTs to the BMS via a "ve.direct non-inverting remote ON/OFF" cable?

JasonTav asked
Jaco Reinecke answered ·

1 Answer

LIFEPO4 -12v paired vs. 24v

My House bank has 800ah @ 24v - 4x parallel sets of paired 12v 200ah gel bateries. A bit on the small side because of limited usable power.

I'm changing to Victron LIFEPO4 with VE.Bus BMS & Cyrix-Li-ct 230.

System already has 2 x multi 5000 24/230, CCGX, BMV 700 & 4x Victron MPPTs for solar banks

I'm unsure of all implications between 8x 12v 200ah or 4x 24v 200ah

* Fitment - the 12v option is a straight swap from a size and cable perspective

* Cost - 2x 12v 200ah = $4200 vs. $4400 for 1x 24v 200ah

* Weight - 2x 22kg vs 1x 56kg (but both options lighter than current gel set-up)

Big bucks, so don't want to make a mistake here

Are there other implications that I have not thought of?

Thanks

Meshugga asked
Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) answered ·

1 Answer

Alternator Charge Current Estimate at 13.8 Volts

Hi,

I am planning the upgrades to lithium for my motor home. And I'm trying to estimame and budget for whether I NEED a battery to battery charger or if I can get away with just alternator charing through the BMS.

Looking to start with:

1 x Victron Lithium 12V - 100Ah Smart and CL BMS 12/100

I know i can limit the current using fuses on this BMS to protect my alternator.

Reading the litrature for the battery it recomends charge voltage of 14V to 15V. 14.2 being needed for cell ballance.

I'm only getting 13.8 volts from my alternator and I'm worried I wont be able to charge (or top up ) by lithium batterys without adding a B2B which can boost the voltage.

My question to anyone who can help me is:
My alternator only puts out 13.8 volts.

Will I still be able to charge the lithium pack at a sensible rate with a marginal voltage difference and below the recomended charge 14.0 charge suggetion?


I'd like to be able to top off the batteries at 50Amps from the alternator - is this feasable without boosting the voltage using a b2b?


Not knowing the internal resistance of the lithium pack I can't calculate the sort of charge current I could expect.

Does anyone have some first hand guidance of charging from alternators of lower voltage ?



thanks for the help

regards

Tony.


TonyJobson asked
KevP answered ·

1 Answer

Victron 48v Quattro & Tesla

Has anyone used Tesla S Modules in series to power the Quattro 5K? I am using this system in a mobile application and will be adding pairs of Teslas. My goal is to have 6-Teslas in a Series-Parallel 48v configuration to power the Quattro and a Dual-Zone Mini-Split.

Will the Quattro handle the slightly goofy Tesla voltage requirements better than the Multiplus?

It is hard to beat the energy density of Teslas.

murphyslaw asked
CappyJax commented ·

6 Answers

Max voltage difference when connecting LFP batteries parallel

Hi! I tried to look up in the documentation but couldn't find any relevant info, however, I remember from the past that there should be a maximal 0.5V difference between batteries.

Is this correct?


Thanks

eliott asked
klim8skeptic answered ·

1 Answer

One Mulitplus connected to another for charge, AC assistance and Redundancy

Hi,

After going through several ideas to isolate my 2 lithium banks I came across a post with a system design that, with a little adjustment for my personal kit, might just work.

I've left this quite high level, leaving out BMS change/load disconnect circuits out, but they would of course be included especially a BP between the ignition and the Balmar regulator in order to not blow up my alternator should there be a high voltage situation.

[image]


My main question is will piggybacking one multiplus with another be a viable option or would the conversion of DC to AC lead to too much wasted energy?

I have ideas to use various isolation/3 way throw switches in order to be able to take the DC charge into either system.

Let me know what you think and thanks to the member for posting their design :)

[image]

stocksy asked
stocksy edited ·

0 Answers

Charging 2 Lithium banks with MPPT

Hi,

I'm looking for a way to charge my 2 lithium banks with MPPT and keep them isolated a the same time.

Here is a picture of what I have so far.

The starter has a switchable circuit to keep the Argos energise circuit live and prevent the MPPT shutting down each evening and messing with the history metrics and also give the MPPT a voltage reference when charging as I don't believe it will get one from the Argos input terminal (please confirm if I'm wrong on that). I understand that this will draw around 0.05A to have the Argo and MPPT active, which will be easily replaced by the solar charge going to the starter battery.

The 2 65A BPs are configured to lithium settings and will disconnect using the BMS charge disconnect going via the BMV relay.

This will not be an approved setup, but will it work as I've gone through serveral designs and this is the only one I haven't spotted any problems with - yet.... :)

If you have a better and supported setup for doing this I would be very interested in the details :)

Thanks!

[image]


stocksy asked
stocksy edited ·

0 Answers

Charging a Victron Lithium Smart battery with a Blue Smart IP65 12/25 - Which BMS to use?

Hello,

I bought a Victron 160ah Lithium battery and a Blue Smart IP65 12/25 and I was wondering which BMS do I need to use.

My usage is extremely simple, i will charge the battery at home with the Blue Smart charger and then put the battery in my caravan to use it in my 12V system.


I spent a lot of time reading the forum but I am still not sure and afraid to make a mistake.


- Do I really need a BMS or is this charger enough for such a simple system?

- If I need a BMS, will the miniBMS be enough or do i need other equipment to charge the battery properly and safely?


Thank you very much in advance for your answer.



Paulis asked
Paulis answered ·

5 Answers

Battery and 712 show different voltages

While my 200ah 12v smart lithium battery was in absorb I happened to check in on the app and the battery over Bluetooth was showing 13.21v while the bmv was showing 14.21v which is slightly worrying. The shunt is connected to the battery via 70mm2 cable to the 2000kva inverter as per the manual.

Tinybluehouse asked
klim8skeptic commented ·

1 Answer

Any ideas why the VE Bus voltage and the BMV voltage are different (54V vs 52V)

Hi!

I can't really explain the difference between these two measurements. There is no load and yet, there is a 2V diff in the readings. Any ideas why?


thanks



[image]

[image]

eliott asked
eliott answered ·

1 Answer

Max charging temp for Victron Lithium battery

I have a 3600 Multi II with a VE.bus BMS and 3 Victron Lio batteries. Configured them all with the config program and let all the defaults be after I changed the battery type to Lithium. Lio Assistant is loaded. Plugged in shore power and the batteries charged happily for an hour or two and then stopped charging. The red 4 cell volt/temp LED is lit on the BMS and the batteries report charge disable in the iphone victron connect app. The cells are all under 4 volts (well under) but the temps on the batteries are 25C. Is 25C the max charge temp? If not how do I convince the BMS to charge them once they hit 25C?


Thanks

svCanna asked
Johannes Boonstra (Victron Energy Staff) answered ·

2 Answers

Where do I put the master switch for a battery to battery charger two battery system on a boat?

Hi everyone,


A simple question for those that know I suspect.


I'm trying to wire up a basic boat system, with a lithium house and a lead acid engine start battery. I have a Victron Orion TR Smart battery to battery charger and just want to know where the main battery isolator fits into this system. I realise both batteries must always be connected when the engine is running so that the charge has somewhere to go when the lithium battery reaches full charge. Can I continue using the traditionals 1/2/both swithch shown as per the schematic at the link below or do I need to have completely separate isolators. Can someone explain or even better draw on the schematic to complete the wiring diagram?

Many thanks for any assistance


Schematic:

https://bit.ly/35R1nbN

AndrewL asked

0 Answers

SBP100 (not product failure)

This is a relatively new and small system that has previously worked as expected. Has been disconnected past two months. Was reconnected yesterday. The two SBP's were updated. One SBP is 'charge' and other is 'load'. The VE Li-ion battery was charged to full via solar and orion Tr smart as of today. There was no DC load output from the 'load' SBP. On the smartphone I could not toggle this SBP to "active", it did display consistent battery volts. Voltage checked with 13.35 on the 'IN' and 2.64 on the 'OUT'. I could not reboot unit from default/power off. The 7 digit display does go thru a flashing mode with 'zero' above and below, (not a full digit or letter) briefly, then no further blue indicators.

I'm curious what I did to toast it. I feel confident that directional wiring is correct. Have ordered a replacement.


rodney abbott-buchanan asked
rodney abbott-buchanan answered ·

1 Answer

Victron Smart Lithium Battery Help! :)

Hello - I need help! :)

I am putting a 12V electrical system into a van and want to include lithium batteries but am getting stuck. The charging sources will be 300w solar (via a Victron Solar Charge Controller) and the engine battery (via a Votronic 12V/12V 30A Battery-to-Battery Charger). There will be no grid / shore power.

The plan is to use one Victron Smart Lithium LiFePO4 12.8V 150Ah Battery. I have attached a draft circuit diagram. Van Circuit Diagram Image 05.05.2020.png

My difficulty is what I need to make the lithium battery work and keep it protected.

1. Do I need a BMS with only one battery (ie no battery bank) and which one - Victron BMS VE-bus or can I use theVictron miniBMS? To be honest I am also finding it difficult to work out how it would be wired into my circuit diagram.

2. The smart batteries have integrated cell balancing, temperature and voltage control (BTV). Is it advised to have a Victron BMV Battery Monitor or does the smart battery do this?

3. Do I need a Victron Battery Protect or does the smart battery do this?

4. Is there anything else I need or should have to make the lithium battery work and keep it protected?

I really want to go for lithium over AGM etc but I am finding it tricky! Any help would really be appreciated :)

Rupert asked
nebulight answered ·

1 Answer

Lithium Starter Battery

Hi,

I've received some equipment to upgrade my boats electrical system. However the company have sent me the wrong battery (100ah drop-in lithium) - should be 100ah Victron smart.

Anyway, they are going to do a swap out, but I was thinking if it would be possible to use it as my starter battery and maybe run a few other things from it - deck wash, nav lights...

My system will have 4x 100ah Victron Lithium batteries for the house bank. This is connected to a 12/3000/120 multiplus.

The solar MPPT and Alternator are connected to a 85ah agm battery and that connects to a cyrix li-ct in order to charge the house bank when charge is available.

What I'm thinking is to do the same with the MPPT, but run it through a Battery protect and have the ignition wire for the balmar external regulator also go through a small battery protect - both will be connected to the BMS charge disconnect that I have routed through my BMV 712 relay and set to disconnect at 14.2v.

Main concern is that currently when the Cyrix disconnects when solar charge is occurring the starter gets a quick dose of around 15volts before the MPPT reduces current.

Will the BP catch this quick enough in order to stop it getting to a lithium starter battery?

I don't think the same will occur with the alternator as once the regulator ignition wire goes out the stop off current should be instant, but say if you think I'm wrong.

Hope you can clear this up and maybe give alternatives I haven't thought of.

Thanks,

Michael


stocksy asked
ejrossouw commented ·

1 Answer

Charge Disconnect Events with Smart BMS CL 12-100

Hello everyone.

May I please have your help with understanding charge disconnect events when using Victron’s 12.8V 300Ah Smart Lithium Batteries and a Smart BMS CL 12-100.

Along with these, two Smart Battery Protects will be used in charge disconnect roles; one for solar/MPPTs and one for a second alternator.

So, is it correct that a charge disconnect event will occur with each of the following:

1. a battery cell’s voltage reaches maximum
2. the temperature of a battery exceeds maximum
3. the temperature of a battery falls below the set minimum
4. the charging rate for a battery exceeds maximum ??

Others?

You might reply with something like:

1. Yes
2. Yes. Think about installing a cooling fan.
3. Yes. Watch your back for polar bears.
4. Yes. Dial down that nuclear charger!

Thank you. :-)

Valden asked

0 Answers

Synchronise Automatic Equalization

Ola,

I use the automatic equalization feature to provide the 14.2V cell balancing voltage periodically for Smart Lithium batteries.

I have 3 charge controllers, 2x SmartSolar 150/35 and 1x BlueSolar 150/70 (non-bluetooth)

I have all the controllers connected to a venus device.

Is there anyway to ensure that all the controllers start equalizing on the same day?

thanks

JasonTav asked

0 Answers

Victron LiFePO4 batteries - potentially bad cell(s)

Hi,

Our house is powered by 2 x 90 Ah 12.6 V Victron Lithium Smart battery packs connected in series to form a nominally 25.6 V battery system. The installation includes a Victron Ve.bus BMS which is connected to a multi-plus and 2 battery protects (1 for DC charging and 1 for DC loads). Recently I have become aware that the performance of at least 1, possibly 2 battery cells, is very different from the other 6.

I became aware of this when the BMS detected 2 separate events; an under-voltage on one of the cells which resulted in the BMS shutting the system down, and an overvoltage which resulted in the charging becoming temporarily de-activated. At first, this appeared to be due to an imbalance in SOC of the cells.

To rebalance the cells I took the system off-line and charged each of the 12.6 V battery packs individually using a laboratory power supply with a charge rate 3A and an absorption voltage of 14.2 V, which was maintained for 2 hours. After the rebalancing process, the battery packs were reconnected and the system brought back on-line.

Over the following days, I monitored the system closely and ensured that a 2 hr absorption period occurred each day. Not only did the batteries quickly become unbalanced again, but I also noticed that the internal resistance of 2 of the cells was quite different from the others.

To systematically test this I captured the cell voltages for the following 3 conditions: Absorption (28.4 V, ~0.3 A), Discharge (13 A) and Bulk (20 A). These three conditions were tested in this order spaced apart by about 1 minute. The results are shown in the attached photos.

[image]

[image]

[image]

To me, this behaviour indicates that the problematic cells are damaged/bad out of the factory, however, I would like some advice from Victron staff with a more in-depth understanding of this product.

These cells have only been in service for about 7 months. They have been cycled at a rate far less than once per day and have not been subject to any charge or discharge currents greater than 45 A (C/2). Current greater than 20 A has not even occurred frequently.

Thanks in advance

Will

wcclarke asked

0 Answers

MultiPlus 12/3000/120. Do I need 16 or 50 Amp version?

I searched but answers not found. Please help with this MultiPlus question.

I'm about to order a full suite of Victron devices for a lithium battery and solar system on a yacht. Storage will be at 12V, with four 12.8V 300Ah Smart lithium batteries - so 1200Ah. A Multiplus 12/3000/120 will provide charging from 230V AC shore power, as well as on-board inverting when needed. This Multiplus is available with either 16 or 50 amp Transfer Switch.

The MultiPlus' maximum charging output of 120A is ideal for the planned battery bank, being 10% of the Ah rating. Question is, should I choose the 16 or 50 amp version? Is the 50 amp version only intended for yachts typically used in 115V shore power regions? Or is this 50 amp version a good choice for my yacht, given the capacity of the battery bank? It could be that the 16 amp version will not be able to supply house AC (say, an electric fan heater) and charge the batteries at full rate, simultaneously.

Am I understanding this parameter correctly? Thank you.


Valden asked
Valden commented ·

4 Answers

Best practices to maximize LIFEPO4 useful life?

I'm in the final design stage of an all-Victron LIFEPO4 upgrade for my sailboat. MultiPlus, 2 of the LFPSmart 12,8/200-a batteries, VE Bus BMS, BMV-712, battery protect, cyrix, Victron MPPT solar controller, new Balmar alternator regulator and Sterling APD...the works, very similar to the example system diagrams Victron provides. Given the amount this is going to cost, I'm keenly interested in designing the system for maximum utility AND maximum useful life. I'd like my children to inherit this LFP system :)

My typical usage pattern is to not really need the house bank most of the year, but for 4 - 6 weeks in the summer my family pretty much lives on the boat. So we see a period of intense use in the summer, but the rest of the year I would like to do what I can to keep the LIFEPO4 batteries in a "storage mode" if that will prolong their life.

My understanding is that when not in use for a while, they should be stored in a partially depleted state...60%, 70%, 80%, I've seen figures in those ranges, with the BMS and all other loads disconnected. I figured I could manage this, running my minor house loads at the dock (bilge pump, never really runs, lights and radio when I am at the boat in the winter working on projects) off the AGM starter battery, which has its own 10amp dedicated shore power charger (not the MultiPlus)

But I've also read in the Victron battery manual that they should be fully charged once per month to keep the cells balanced, which seems to defeat much of the point of having a system in place to store them in isolation at 75%-ish charge for extended periods of time.

What are your thoughts on habits and system design for maximizing LFP battery life?

Is it a false economy to try to maximize life by being fussy managing the storage charge level, disconnecting and reconnecting the BMS and then diligently charging to 100% every month? Is it better to just "set it and forget it" and keep the MultiPlus going all year long? I want to avoid trying to be too clever and cutting off my nose to spite my face, if it is not really worth it.

Part of my concern here is "what counts as a cycle" when we talk about things like 3000 or 5000 charge cycles as being the useful life of a LFP battery. I hate to think I am using up my precious finite lifetime charge cycles just bouncing up and down between 95% and 100% at the dock while getting zero utility from the system.

svAeolus asked
Jason Bolduc answered ·

1 Answer

Orion-Tr 12/12-30 for lithium

Hello, i bought a Orion-Tr 12/12-30 by mistake, i should have gotten the smart version.

Well the non Bluetooth version work well with lithium or should i send it back and change it?

I have a lifepo4 300ah victron smart battery.

thanks

MrDias asked
Justin Cook - Bay Marine Supply USA answered ·

1 Answer

How to rename smart lithium batteries?

Hello,

I try to rename my Victron smart lithium batteries in Victron Connect app (iOS).

According to https://www.victronenergy.com/live/victronconnect:start#renaming_your_devices, this should be possible in the product info page.

When looking at one of my battery’s product info page, I can’t find an option for renaming the battery (there’s only an option for changing the PIN- code and for updating the firmware):


[image]


Thank you!

fabian asked
rspott commented ·

1 Answer

Smart LFP Battery factory temperature shift values

Hi!

Has anyone noticed that the recently the Smart LFP batteries that I checked had a +5°C tempereture shift by default. Now that we have winter again in Europe I started charging the batteries for a few minuted before I checked. It was around 3-5°C and the batteries have shown around 8-9°C.

What has the reason for this change? I think this is not good practice to have it set like that.


Thanks



eliott asked

0 Answers

VE. Bus BMS with Skylla ip44 via Venus GX

If I connect a VE. Bus BMS (connected to Victron Smart LiFePO4) and a Skylla IP44 to a Venus GX, will the BMS be able to control (disconnect/connect) the charger without additional devices (remote disconnect)? Or, must I use the BMS charge disconnect output?


Paul asked
s_v Simbora commented ·

1 Answer

Dimensions change of LiFePO4 Battery 25.6V/200Ah Smart?

Hi!

I received batteries that had a different screw type than before, a little bit higher. Can anybody tell me if this will be standard or just one off and will there be an update to

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/DimensionDrawing_LiFePO4_25.6V200Ah_Smart.PDF


The reason I am asking is because I have a design that fits within 1-2mm tolerance and this change would break it.


thanks


eliott asked
Michael Riley edited ·

2 Answers

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