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Multipass 24/3000 shuts down when disconnected from shore power

My Multipass 24/3000 was installed this past summer. Everything has been great until two weeks ago.

Recently, I went to use my boat and after unplugging from shore power, engines start etc. I noticed the breaker for the inverter was not illuminated, but the breaker was on and had not tripped. Before starting the boat, AC/DC panel showed inverter breaker operating and illuminated. The inverter is left in charge only when connected to shore. The color control GX showed no alarms or issues.

With the engines operating the port side steering was not functioning but starboard size was. (Boat uses jet drives with buckets and joystick steering). After a few minutes trying to trouble shoot, I started the generator and then the breaker switch for the inverter became illuminated and now both port and starboard steering began to work.

The alternators on both engine were replaced during the Multipass install and everything had been working without issue.

Summary: the Multipass 24/3000 only is working when connected to shore power or receiving generator power source. It does not work when the engine is running.

What am I missing that may cause this?



talaria asked
talaria answered ·

2 Answers

Switch as a Group (3ph. system, input 1)

Hi all,

it seems to me the feature "Switch as Group", in the VE.Bus Configurator, is a bit under-documented .

So, please verify, in a three phase system with Quattros in all phases (at input 1), when "Switch as Group" is not checked, does it affect all the Quattros ? ..... meaning that any of the three, and any number of them, can operate as inverter or charger independently?
In that case, one or two units, could operate with the ""Power Assist" feature, while the remaining one (s) can operate as charger.

Thanks.

Nikolas Stathis asked

0 Answers

Balanced generator currents in Three phase off grid system with Quattros

Hello all,

we are designing an Off-Grid solar system upgrade due to higher power demand.

The system now consists of :

1xQuattro, 1xGen (wired as single phase), 2x PVstrings, 2xMPPT, 1xBattery String

After the upgrade :

3xQuattro, 1xGen (wired as three phase), 4x PVstrings, 4xMPPT, 2xBattery String

The upgrade system will be controlled and monitored by a GX control unit (Cerbo-GX).

The generator is used as a backup power source, to feed the loads and charge the battery string, and it will be rewired back to three phase to gain some power lost by the single phase wiring.

The loads are single phase ones, and will be evenly distributed to the three phases by their nominal power, but the actual power distribution depends on the customer usage, and time/day.

My concern is the balance of the generator currents when the loads are not balanced.

So, is it possible with the Quattros to equalize / balance the three AC input currents (from the generator) while feeding loads on their outputs?


In the book "Energy Unlimited"

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Book-Energy-Unlimited-EN.pdf

page 67, example 12.3.2, we can see the statement :

"One attractive feature of the Multi’s is that they will automatically balance the load of the generator: the Multi’s will take most power from the phase(s) which otherwise would have the smallest load."



What is saying there ?

(is this the feature I am looking for, or I am reading what I would like to read, is this possible with the Quattros?)


Thanks


Nikolas Stathis asked
Nikolas Stathis answered ·

2 Answers

Set generator as running when AC1 is active.

Hi folks,

I have AC1 set as generator input and it works as expected, bar for a limit addressed on another post.

I would like to track generator run hours but I do not have auto start set up yet as this involves a modification of the generator.

I currently start and stop the gen manually, which works for me right now, and would like AC1 to set the generator start and stop flag which would then log run hours for me.

I apriciate that its litterally the reverse of what would typically be required.

Is this possible? If not is there any way to build and run a script to make it possible? Could I build a custom helper of example. or is there perhaps a helper that runs script?

Multypluss 48/5000/70 & CCGX.

Cheers,

Al

Alistair Warburton asked
Kevin Windrem commented ·

3 Answers

Power quality, from generator, limiting charge... Solutions?

I just closed a thread 'Bat temp OK, charge still limmited...?'

Here which is a preamble to this one.

I have now identified two issues I need to understand / fix

a. The weal AC setting is applying a 2kW charge limit and I dont know why.

b. My generator will not stay connected when weak AC is off and I need to understand specifficall what limits are being checked so I can fix this.

Given that I do not know what aspects of the AC are being checked or what limits are in play I dont know what to try and fix.
I am fairly confident tht the power quality problem is my generator, as opposed to the charger being fessy, but there is some sort of interaction between the two that upsets both.

I have added some chokes to L & N respectively which have helped considderably but not fixed the issue. Adding a comon made choke didnt help.

However I do not know the value of the unts as they are hand wound on scrounged up cores. I do know the value is importent and would be based on what exactly I am trying to fix. Thus not knowing either is a big issue.

Depending on the core periability, unknown, the two I have connected are likely to be between 4 & 12 mH and as they are green epoxy I suspect 12.

I am clearly on the right track but what I have is at best a bodge and at worst could do dammage. I need to find / design a solution propperly and to do that I need to understand precisly what needs fixing.

For now Weak AC will be going back on.


I need to know the switching frequency of the charger.
I need to know what AC waveform artifacts are considdered Poor.
I need to find out / work out what value of choke is likely to work best.
I need to know if a small bypass capacitor, probably between chokes, will help and if so decide on a value.

I am also aware that what I have done may not be a good way to go in the first place and I would be interested in anything anyone can suggest with respect to the problem in general.

Given that there is a charger setting designed to counter poor power quality from generators I am assuming it is relativly common issue.
If the built in solution wasn't hobbling my charge rate I wouldnt be asking about waveforms and chokes...

My goal is to get to the full 70A DC, which is around 3.5kW, and well within what the generator can supply with losses and power factor taken into considderation.

Any and all help or advice would be very much apriciated...

Cheers

Al


Alistair Warburton asked
Alistair Warburton commented ·

0 Answers

Why did my Quattro go into Overload?

Hi,

Today my 3-phase parallel Quattro system came to a halt due to L3 whent into Overload alarm.
I was running my genset (grid was connected aswell) who has priority, and is programmed to stop at 80% SoC. Venus GX relay opened and sent a signal to my genset to stop, my genset then runs for 5 extra minutes to cool down, still supplying voltage/current though.
When the genset does shutdown, then came the overload alarm.

I have gone through the excelsheet from the VRM portal and i have my suspicions on what caused it, but would like your opinion on the subject. The excel sheet is attached.

Why is the AC-In relay not triggered when the Venus genset-relay opens (signaling genset to stop)? That would send the quattros to inverter mode, and shortly after phasing in to the grid, into grid mode.

That would then actually let the genset cool down for 5minutes without any load, before it shuts down.


Kind Regards
L230


L230_20201113.zip

ehsab asked
ehsab edited ·

2 Answers

Generator not charging batteries

I have a 5kVA Quattro, running ESS. AC1 in is Grid, AC2 in is Generator.


My challenge is that in the event of a grid failure and if my batteries are low and my generator is running, it does not charge my batteries (or shall I rather say it limits current drawn from the generator to around 8A). AC is synced. Current limit on AC2 is set to 15A.


If I do increase required output power, it draws the additional power from the generator until it reaches the 15A mark. So my issue is the fact that it does not use available generator power to charge my batteries.


This use to work. No idea why it stopped

jleroux asked
jleroux commented ·

1 Answer

Unexpected relay behaviour - Multiplus 48/500 controlling generator switching on/off at minimum run duration

Hi, very confused, appreciate any views...

have a Multipus 48/5000 configured to close relay to start generator at defined SOC. Which it does.


However rather than running until SOC condition met, it runs for the configured "Minimum Run Time", stops, then 2 or 3 minutes later starts again...and so on until the SOC condition is met.

Maybe I have misunderstood, but I expected the "Minimum Run Time" to set a lower run limit in case the condition which initiated the start was resolved faster? Not to turn off the relay after that time, then re-assess all the conditions again?

Thanks!

energetic61 asked
energetic61 answered ·

2 Answers

48v vs 24v off-grid US

Hello all. Looking for advice as I build my off-grid system for my tiny home. My current dilemma is that my batteries can be configured as 24v or 48v systems, and not many of the 48v systems are configured directly for US, split phase.

Option 1 is use the batteries at 24v and use an inverter/charger(quattro probably), adding a second unit for split phase in the near future.

Option 2 would be use the batteries at 48v, with a EU inverter/charger run it at 240v, plus an autotransformer.

Is having a 48v system worthwhile in terms of longevity and efficiency to justify the slightly more complicated system? I'm also not sure how I could charge my pack with a 120v inverter generator through a 240v configured inverter, when I need generator backup. I like the idea of having the autotransformer in the long term anyway to balance loads for split phase when I use tools, but the AC charging from a generator is the biggest unknown to me right now.


bdale asked
mt-geek answered ·

1 Answer

Generator shuts down when charging

New problem - just started this week.

I have a victron 3000 and a Honda generator 2200.

When I turn “charge on” or “on” it turns off generator.

What can I do to fix this? I have never opened up the victron since it was installed. I’m new at all this.

Thanks for any advice

David

davidnepove asked
chrisb13 answered ·

3 Answers

Generator size and harmonics (THD)

Greetings,


I would like to know what is the minimum size of generator that can work without problems with a Victron Multiplus 48/5000/70.

I know the following link:

https://www.victronenergy.com/live/multiplus_faq#generator_sizing

in which it is recommended that the minimum power be 8 kVA, but below the data table it is indicated that """if your generator is smaller than the recommended size for your inverter/charger, you will definitely need to adjust the settings ...""". From this, I can deduce that a smaller generator can work properly.

I cannot find the minimum value from which the system will work correctly.

On the other hand, I can choose between two generators: one with a THD<5% and the other with a THD slightly greater than 7%. (There are other features to consider, of course)

Is there some recommended maximum level of Total Harmonic Distortion?

Thank you for your attention.


guillem-636 asked
JohnC answered ·

1 Answer

Can I connect a generator to the output of the Multi?

I have a system made up of 2 Multiplus 5000/24 connected in series. And I want to connect a generator (75Kv / 220) to charge batteries and supply electricity to the system. An installer has told me that if I connect the generator output cables directly to the 220v output of the Multiplus 5000/24 Master (Taking special care to connect L in L and N in N) the Multiplus 5000/24 Master will automatically recognize the generator input when it is running and will act automatically in less than a second without the need for a changeover installed, working like main surce and battery charger at same time without the need to switch the button "Charger" on third swistch position on Multiplus main panel, Is it true? Personally I think that with this method it can be more practical, but also when connecting it to the 220v Multiplus outlet. when the generator is stopped I can send 220v from the Multiplus to the generator and I do not know the consequences of this.

earomi asked
yann answered ·

4 Answers

Am i fine with Multiplus 2 or do i need a Quattro ( Generator / 1Phase)

Hello all together.

Iam about to buy an ESS System for my 3Phase Home in Germany.

I wanted to go with 3x Multiplus 2 5000.

The Batterys should only charge with PV Power not from Grid (Except the Soc is to low).

I know this is all no Problem.

Questions:

1. If one or two Phase fail, i want that the MP2 indeed charge the Battery to a set, higher, SOC, so that the MP2 on the failed Phase can go and produce the missing Phase out of the Battery.


2. I have an Inverter Generator with 18A one phase. In Case of a Powerfailure (All 3 Phases dead), i want to manually switch the GRID off and the Generator on my Master MP2. Can i somehow switch to "Gernator Mode" (UPS Mode off, Ampere Limit to 15A, loading Batterys from ACIN), without needing to reprogramm?

Like a switch that if pressed the MP2 will switch to "Generatormode".


Or do i need a Quattro for this? I dont need to do the switch automatically, but it should doable for my Wife (Turning two switches and start the Generator is no Problem, but programming the MP2 on the other Hand is...)


3. I didnt find a answer to this maybe clear question... Do i need to Fuse the MP2 to their maximal Transfer Capacity? Or can i use my already in Place 63A Fuses? (are they fused internaly?) 50A Fuses are more expensive...


marv21 asked
marv21 commented ·

1 Answer

Cerbo & DC generator

Hi All,

A couple of questions. Today I hooked my fisher Panda dc generator onto the cerbo relais, works like a charm. (Not via a bus because of the age of the genset) The cerbo doesn’t have an option for a DC generator only AC, correct? Might be a future software upgrade? Nevertheless, it works.


The question is, do I need to connect it to the charge disconnect of the BMS or will the Cerbo pass that signal on to the generator via the relais (set to ‘no’ for off en ‘nc’ for start). It is set to operate within a certain SOG range. But does the cerbo switches it of in case of a bms charge disconnect? When the bms shuts down, the cerbo is down too so in that case the relais will be set to ‘no’ again.


Furthermore:

It could be usefull to have the generator as backup power supply for the vessel in case something happens at sea and the bms switched the load off or alternatively a (mayday only;) bypass for the load disconnect in case of a urgent situations at sea where safety is more urgent that the lifespan of the lithiums :).

Best,

Gert Jan

gertjand asked
jwfrary commented ·

2 Answers

Has anyone used a Duromax XP12000EH with Quattro 5kW in parallel?

Manual says to check with dealer about suitability of generator brands for use as backup for those inverters, thought I'd check in with the Community. The Duromax looks like a pretty good unit but thought I'd see if anyone has used one and if so what results you've had.

By the way, Champion Power Equipment specifically states that if you use their generators to back up your solar system in an off grid configuration your warranty is null and void.

billk asked
billk edited ·

0 Answers

Genset with 5 wires

Good day, I have a Quatro and a genset with 5 wires on the linking cable. The installer connected and tested and said everything works fine, but I noticed that the controller light stays on (like being switched on). This should only happen when the genset has to start. Any help will be appreciated.

smitfamily asked
ewalderasmus commented ·

1 Answer

Can Quattro start a generator like a car - off/on/start-momentary ?

We will be installing a Quattro 48V/10K sometime soon, and would like to have it autostart a small Duromax XP12000EH generator. That generator uses a typical car-like starting system, with a keyswitch (that I'll tap into) that has Off/On/Start-momentary. Looks like this

[image]

  • Off : two sets of wires are jumped. Easy enough to do with an extra double-pole relay. These ground out the coil, and open the fuel solenoid.
  • On : nothing is connected.
  • Start : Just like a car, momentary jump of two wires until gen is running, maybe 2-3 secs

I see lots of posts about using special generator control modules ($$) or timed relays etc. There must a way to use the programmable relay assistants to handle this. @Mark gave a really nice description in

https://community.victronenergy.com/questions/41930/venus-disconnect-ac-in-1-when-generator-signal-is.html

that it should be possible using two relays, programmable primary, and secondary K1. (I want to use K2 for a vent fan in the battery box ...)

The logic would look something like this I think :

Quattro determines that gen should start (battery SOC/Volts AND no grid AC)

  • Close primary relay. Hold in this condition as long as gen should run.
  • Wait 1 second
  • Close K1 relay
  • Wait 3 seconds
  • Open K1 relay

Quattro determines that gen should stop (battery SOC/Volts OR grid AC good)

  • Open main relay

How could we implement this with Assistants etc ?

halfwalker asked
ernie commented ·

4 Answers

generator for automatic Start and Stop
Has anyone connected a MASE Marine IS 5.0 generator for automatic Start and Stop with Raspberry Pi with Venus OS? Can you tell me connection diagram, thanks

                 

gs1200adv asked
trevor-bird answered ·

2 Answers

Auto start Generator

I have a victron quattro 48/5000 system. Has anyone used a Honda EU3000IS generator with Auto start if the panels are not enough and the batteries need a charge? Does my inverter offer this option for autostart

ejm asked
Kevin Windrem commented ·

2 Answers

Generator service notifications

Hi all,


Is it possible to send automatic alarm from VRM if generator service hours are due (hours or time period for example)? It would be handy in case there are many sites to monitor.


Best regards,

Jaan Särg asked
Jaan Särg commented ·

1 Answer

[SOLVED] Generator woes in 3p hybrid AC (Fronius)/DC system

Summary


Problem1: Generator feed-back

Cause: Gridcode (Germany) & LOM type B enabled for AC-IN1 (where the Generator is connected. Symptom was that there never really was any demand on L1.

Solution: Disable LOM on AC-IN1

Problem2: Generator was not demanded beyond 4A per Phase, although AC Input current limit was set to 7.5A

Cause: Unknown, probably firmware bug in either Quattro 469 Firmware or the 2.60 Venus Firmware

Solution: Wait 3 hours, turn Generator on again, then it respects the AC Input current limit again

Problem3: Dynamic current limiter does not work (description see below)

Cause: Gridcode enabled

Solution: Disable gridcode, thanks to @Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff)


I would have expected a Gridcode to apply only for the AC-In defined as "Grid" and not for the one defined as "Generator" (and I still do), but as the genset functionality is more important for our off-grid installations, disabling gridcode altogether is an acceptable trade-off.



So the question is why. I would have expected the Quattros to pull the defined amps from the genset symmetrically on each phase and to juggle real-world consumption (or excess) on AC-Out.

Instead, I see a constantly skewed L1 with feedback to the genset - see picture.


[image]


Evidently the Fronius (Symo 6) has something to do with it, because when that thing is turned off, the feedback is gone. So I wonder what's wrong there or if it falls into the "It's not a bug, it's a feature" category.

Moreover, the generator runs less-than-smooth. All load changes seem to go directly to the genset, instead of being compensated by the Quattros (power assist or whatever), so the genset Amps go up and down like a kangaroo.

I would assume that defining an AC-IN source as "generator" means that "feed-in" is an absolute no go for the quattros. So why isn't it?

petajoule asked
petajoule edited ·

5 Answers

Quattro AC Input Current Limit ignored on Pass Thru

Two Phase ESS setup with 2 x 48/8000/110 Quattros, 15kVA three phase generator with Titan 48/50 Charger on third phase.

Firmware: CCGX 2.53~2, Quattos 469.

Generator on AC-IN-1 with current limit of 14 Amps. All good while loads are low and system in Bulk, charging battery. Current hovers around 12 - 14 Amps. The problem I have is when a large load turns on, the mode changes to "Pass Thru" and excessive current is drawn continuously from the generator. I was monitoring the system when the 3kW water heater came on. I watched the Quattro draw 27 Amps from the generator for 30 seconds before I turned the generator isolator off. This is virtually twice the limit set.

Dynamic Current Limiter - disabled

UPS Function - Enabled

Was going to try the "Dynamic Current Limiter" but the increase in current is not temporary. It matches the loads applied and completely ignores the “AC Input Current Limit”. Also I don’t want it working while connected to the grid.

Please advise if I’ve overlooked something.



mike-lynch asked
Willem van Schalkwyk answered ·

10 Answers

Generator Configuration missing in EasySolar IIGX remote console?

I've got a EasySolar IIGX and wish to connect my generator and configure autostart and silent hours, however the Generator menu seems to be missing from mye Remote Console - I can only configure the generator from VEconfig. Am I missing something here? Are the advanced generator features of the Multiplus not available in the Easysolar? Any tips to how to set up silent hours using EasySolar IIGX?

oyvind asked
marekp answered ·

2 Answers

Autostart generator wiring (Venus)

Hi, could someone help me figure out how to wire my Hyundai DHY6000SELR to autostart from the Venus controller. I'm not sure if I need additional parts. My generator has an ATS socket (3 pin).

This is the manual for the generator, the wiring diagram is on page 23 and 24.


http://hyundaipowerequipment.co.uk/media/custom/upload/File-1470903182.pdf

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

mrhouse asked
Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) answered ·

2 Answers

Generator start/stop -> Settings -> Conditions On loss of communication

On loss of communication


is this loss of communication to the VRM website ....or communication with something else ?


jan-kees asked
cleaver edited ·

1 Answer

How to use both Cerbo GX relays?

Hello everyone.

I need to use one relay for the Genset to switch ON when the battery bank (Pylontech) SOC goes down to 20% (lets say). and stop when the batteries get charged.


I also need a second relay for a device that needs to know the battery charge, ie that it will turn ON only when the batteries are full.It just needs the signal. How do I program this? In the comparisson table (https://www.victronenergy.com/live/venus-os:start#comparison_table) it says that the Cerbo has 2 x NO/NC.


Is this enough for what I need? (genset+the other device)


Thanks a lot

tpwchr asked
tpwchr edited ·

1 Answer

Off Grid Installation AC Coupled Fronius Disconnects with Back Up Generator Is Switched On

Hello


I have installed Quattro 8kva with 8kW Fronius AC coupled with a CCGX 800Ah of batteries. It is an off grid installation with PV inverter assistant on. When I switch on my generator and the Quattro synchronises with it the Fronius inverter disconnects and says error code 107 which meant no grid.

My generator is 4.5kVa but the wave form is poor so I have limited the current to 13amps and I have used the Weak Ac function

From what I have read about the off grid systems in victron literatureI thought that the Quattro would control wave form so the Fronius and Generator could both power the loads and charge the generator.

But from reading other posts it seems the Quattro is just passing the generator AC frequency through and it’s too messy for the fronius to sync.


Is there a way to allow my generator and fronius to work?

tunde-olaoye-1 asked
jon-lowbank answered ·

4 Answers

Charge using Car AC out - Mulltiplex 24/3000/120

Hey Guys, I have my setup in a RV and most of the time the solar does a great job. I was wondering if I can use the AC out in my truck (rated 400W/120V) to charge my batteries by connecting in to the AC in of the multiplex. I understand that it will be a very slow charge but I'm trying to find a way from lugging around a generator just to use it once every 2-3 months.

I tried to connect it, and set the charge current to 2.5A, I can hear the multiplex clicking every 30 seconds or so, but it wont charge. I wonder if I can get this done with some advanced settings.

Help is much appreciated. thanks :)

Shakir Thowseen asked
JohnC commented ·

1 Answer

cerbo doesn't show generator input

The pic shows the Generator as N/A but when it is running it shows up as AC Input and not Generator Input, Why?

In Pic #2 on the bottom left it's always blank no matter if on Shore Power or Generator, Why?

What am I doing wrong here? Thanks for any and all input.

My set up is Quattro 5000/24 using the K1 and K2 relays with a Onan 5500. I am using a Cerbo GX Aux input to trigger the generator to start stop, etc and it works great but why isn't the Cerbo recognizing the generator input vs the AC input.

[image]

[image]

todd asked
todd commented ·

2 Answers

Generator input voltage showing to high in ve configuration

hi all, having high voltage issues with a 24v 8000 quattro. Genset without load has been checked with various meters putting out 238v 52hz, at the generator. Voltage on ve configuration is showing 272v-280v 52hz. Can someone please help how is this possible? Does the quattro pick up peak voltages? If genset is loaded the quattro changes to charger mode and operates perfectly. Thanks in advance

steve1082 asked

0 Answers

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