I appreciate that this question may come down to preference, but I would greatly appreciate anyone's input on this if possible. My dad and I are currently installing the VE setup I've purchased for my liveaboard, which includes:
3 x 100ah Lifepo4 batteries
1 x Multiplus 12/3000/120
1 x BMS 12/200
1 x BMV 712 shunt
2 x Power In Bus bars
1 x Cerbo GX & Monitor
1 x Standard 105ah lead acid starter battery
The Victron setup above was recommended to us by the agent who I purchased it from. Since then we have done a good bit of research on the Victron setup, and we are now questioning whether the BMS 12/200 is the best option for our setup... Would anyone recommend the Smart BMS CL 12/100 and or the VE.Bus BMS along with the Cyrix Li Ct?
The Smart BMS does not appear to limit the current draw of the house batteries which the BMS 12/200 does appear to do. The Smart BMS also appears to offer better protection to the starter battery..
Can anyone weigh in on their experience or opinion of these BMS options?
I can't find a lot of detailed information on the Smart BMS CL 12/100 and was hoping for some insight on how I've applied it to my system. The main reason I wanted to use it was it provides more amperage than the Orion.
(I have yet to add wire size, fuses and breakers to my diagram)
Any help, insight or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
(Van is a MB Sprinter, 2 x 200ah Lithium Victron Batteries, BMS is connect directly to start battery)
I am a bit of a beginner in all of this electric wiring, so forgive me if I dont use the right terms etc.
I recentlly got myself a 90Ah Victron Life4po Battery, the victron BMS 12/200, bmv 712 and a 100 watt solar panel with mppt 75/15 module.
I did all the wiring as shown in the graphic. The setup is used in an old mercedes 307D van and I wanted to use it seperately from the starter battery and alternator. I was a bit worried that my alternator could be to weak (it only delivers 55A) to permantly charge the lithium battery and I am only using the van in summer when sunlight is not an issue for charging.
So I connected the mppt minus to the Load Minus of the BMS and the mppt plus cable to the plus of the battery. The bms charge led is green with this setting and the bmv shows some Ah which have been generated by the solar system.
So far so good, but once I connect electrical consumers there seems to be an issue. For instance I connected a 12V USB charging station, the plus cable to the plus of the battery and minus to the LB Load minus. Now, my phone will charge but the current seems to switch on and of all the time. The "Output on LED" of the BMS is not green ( dont know if thats the issue) and in the bmv it is not shown that current is drawn from the battery.
As a Newbie to electrics I am unsure what else I could check or how to trace the error. I also tried to connect a compressor fridge likewise. The display will turn on but the compressor doesn t start.
I would really apreciate any hint on what to do in order to find a solution.
Almost every ESS battery compatibility page notes that old VE.CAN BlueSolar (150/85 & 150/70) with the rectangular metal case does NOT support external BMSes, because the firmware does not implement the required control instructions.
On the face of it, this makes sense.
However, after a couple of years of this being the case, WHY has the feature not been implemented?
I currently have some of these devices, and they are essentially useless now.
I understand that firmware "space" might be an issue to add this feature, but would it not be possible to build a cut-down firmware that contains ONLY this feature and none of the standalone charging features? That way a "BMS-compatible" firmware can be flashed, since none of the other features matter then.
It really is a shame that these excellent chargers have basically been abandoned now, especially since they were marketed as the top-of-range models initially.
I read in the lynx bms installation manual that you can determine if the bms or the battery to bms cables are bad. Method is to connect spare cable between bms connections to test function of bms.
So can I test the vebus bms the same way as the lynx ?
Just received this new solar charger / inverter, wondering if anyone knows if there is a way I can use remote on / off to disable mppt charger but keep inverter running? I currently have lithium bank and run twin core from hv port on my bms to turn off a 150 /85 mppt if a cell gets too high (3.6v) to prevent overcharging, I want to do the same thing with the RS but so far if I open the physical circuit on ‘remote on / off’ it turns the inverter off as well as the charger, is there a way to keep inverter running but just send signal from bms to turn charger off ?
I am trying to set up a remote monitoring system for a single panel and battery system. I have a LiFePO4 smart battery for my system. I believe the small BMS is the best option for my situation. Before I purchase it I would like to know if it is compatible with other (non-victron) charge controllers? Other MPPTs suit my needs better does the small BMS need to be connected to an MPPT? Do I need a shut off, such as the battery protect, as well?
Many know that a battery protect cannot be connected between a Multiplus and the batteries. So if while unattended, the Multiplus throws a wobbly and either continuously charges or discharges the batteries, what can be used to disconnected it when the voltage exceeds some pre-defined limit? I know when it's working it will look after the batteries. My concern is when it fails. With a separate charger and inverter, a couple of battery disconnects could be used, but not with an inverter/charger.
I know many LiFePO4 batteries have a built in BMS which will disconnect them but I have a Batrium BMS which will ask the Multiplus (via the CAN bus and Color GX) to stop but cannot actually disconnect it.
I supposed I could use a big relay but I don't like the idea of having a permanently energised relay in the system.
I guess I'm looking for a 250A (I have the Multiplus 3KVA) common port battery disconnect.
As per the topic, this product is listed in the victron product page, yet can find absolutely no evidence of it out in the real world.
Hello, i want to integrate the Color Control GX with my sodium batteries (Fiamm 48TL200), but, unfortunately the Collor Control GX does not support this batteries BMS, i want to develop the support. There's some tutorial or some kind of documents i can use to do this integration?
I recently upgraded my Narrow Boat to a lithium setup with your system. My setup includes 3x 200Ah Lithium batteries, protected by the BMS CL 12/100 BMS. I have a Multiplus 12/3000/120 inverter/charger, with smart battery protection protecting load and solar charge (Bluesolar 100/30). My engine is a Betamarine 38, with separate leisure and starter alternators. I have wired an old wet lead acid battery as a dump battery in parallel to my alternator (kept from my original wet battery setup), so as to protect the alternator diodes from voltage surges in case of any shutdown from the BMS whilst the engine is running, as per the advice in the user guide. The whole set up is fused fully as per the installation guidelines and all works really well, I have the setup running for 6 months with no issues, however..
The boat is moored at a local marina, sometimes for over a month without the engine being run (the solar keeps the lithium in tip top charge). Whilst I could connect her to the shoreline via the Multiplus, the solar keeps the lithium charged enough to leave the fridge on etc. The problem I have is that the dump battery has flattened over time, and the voltage drop across it is 10.5v now - I suspect this is because the BMS has slowly over a month or so flattened the dump battery combined with the natural discharge/flattening over time. I'm not sure what the minimum voltage is before the BMS switches off and in turns loads and solar charging off.
My question, is if there is some way of doing away with the dump battery? From what I can see, the dump battery serves 2 purposes - it independently powers the BMS when the engine is not running, (14ma is what I seem to recall), but also protects the alternator in case of a BMS disconnect whist the engine is running. The latter I can solve with an alternator protect, (having to go to another manufacturer for this), however the former, I cannot see why I could not power the BMS by the lithiums when the alternator is not running. This could be done with some simple diode arrangement, allowing a small amount of current to flow from the lithiums to power the BMS when the alternator is not running, when it is, the diode will prevent current flow directly back into the lithiums from the alternator and ensure all the power goes via the current limiting capability of the BMS back to the batteries. I can't see why this would not work - I'd include a low current fuse in line, (the maximum current flow should be no more than the drain of the BMS), and would take the feed from the load side of my load battery protect, ensuring if the bms tells everything to shut down, then it will, in effect shut itself down, which is fine as doing that would shut down all battery protect and charge systems anyway. To start the system up again in that scenario, I would just need to start the engine up, or have a switched connection from my starter battery to the alternator post on the BMS to fire her up again and in turn bring the load side of the battery protect back on again. I have a diagram, but it's only part finished will finish and post if it helps.
If you can tell me if this setup might work, or indeed if there is any other arrangement you could suggest.
My starter battery is charged by a dedicated separate alternator so is not a factor.
Any thoughts / suggestions very much appreciated.
Hi does anyone know if enabling dvcc on the cerbo gx disables the charge disconnect function on the ve.bus bms connected to victron li batteries. The bms charge disconnect switches off my alternator.
We have a hybrid system with 6pcs Quattros on a 3-phase parallell system. We have MG Lithium-Ion LFP Batteries and a MG Master LV BMS. The Quattros are Connected to a CCGX on VE.Bus and the BMS on the VE. Can. Problem here is that I dont get the SOC from the BMS/Batteries displayed on CC GX.
Is there something I do wrong here?
I have two questions regarding wiring of the Orion TR Smart Isolated remote cable. I want to connect the Orion TR Isolated DC-DC charger towards the VE Bus BMS (black and Yellow cable). Can I connect the black ground cable towards the VE-BUS battery - (while grounding of the VE-BUS BMS is arranged via the VE-BUS RJ45 cable, a grounding loop should be avoided?). Question 2: There is no picture of the VE-BUS BMS where to wire the yellow cable (only the mini BMS is shown), I presume that I should connect towards the Charge disconnect (mentioned in the standard picture is "Charger" on the mini-BMS)?
Interested in thoughts regarding Victron batteries with external BMS vs integrated BMS batteries like Battle Born or Victron.
Thanks for Steve Mitchell for his detailed information on a Victron system install.
Have a 2001 Beneteau 361 upgrading from the original Xantrex Freedom 20 to a LiFePO4 & Victron system.
What do you 'lose' or 'gain' by going with the integrated BMS batteries (Battle Born) vs the Victron with external BMS?
I have a pair of SmartLithium 12V/150Ah in series for a 24V battery. Both on v1.24 firmware.
One of the seems to be having a problem balancing. The other one is fine.
This is from the end of a 2hr absorption phase - you can see cell 3 is really lagging behind:
Is the BatteryProtect needed/useful with the smart LifePO4 battery?
Does the battery itself stop sending current when its voltage is too low?
The battery itself has an "Allowed-To-Discharge cell voltage" setting, the manual says "As soon as one of the cells reaches this voltage, the BMS will disable all loads by sending a signal to the load or to the load disconnection device.".
I don't understand if the battery is smart enough to stop sending power to devices once that voltage is reached, or it (and the VE.Bus BMS) needs a "load disconnection device" that acts like a switch between the battery and the load.
A standard load wouldn't care about a stop signal, unless that signal was a complete lack of current.
I often see the BatteryProtect in schematics but it seems the battery with the (VE.BUS BMS which is directly recommended) may already be equipped to protect against under/over voltage.
Hi folks! I've been posting a few questions here in the past week so I'm sorry for spamming even more but I'm in a desperate mode now since I should be leaving tomorrow for a 2 week trip with my van and my inverter is still not working.
I've tried a lot of different things, but nothing seems to work, here's a list of what happened and what I've done so far:
1. Battery voltage dropped very low and the system was shut down.
2. Inverter stopped working and wouldn't not even charge the battery.
3. I've got a new battery charger to get the battery back to full charge.
4. Inverter still not responding, but I can get into it with my MK3.
5. Checked the inverter fuse but all is working fine.
6. Tried changing a bunch of settings with VEConfig.
7. Tried to reset everything to default and removing the assistant.
8. Notice that the inverter would show unsupported firmware when using VictronConnect (screenshot attached)
9. Tried to install a new firmware with VEFlash, tried both 2708482 and 2708433 but nothing seemed to help.
10. Removed my VE.Bus BMS and installed my new Smart BMS 12/100 instead. Tried changing the assistant again and using both the remote and the temperature ports to control the inverter but nothing changed.
11. Tried using the most recent beta version of VictronConnect but it also didn't work.
I think this is mostly it. I'm just completely lost right now. I've been planning this trip for such a long time and I just don't know what else to do.
I would really really appreciate any help here.
I have had this problem both small (just one Victron SmartSolar 75/15 in a van) and large (large offgrid installation with Multiplus and Cerbo GX)
The problem is that you remove the battery because of an external reason, or the battery disconnects itself by the BMS, connected devices are still powered directly by solar. Which leads to unpredicting results. Not only from safety point of few, but also for the devices possibly not getting enough power and acting weird.
So in most cases you want the solar power to disconnect as well. I am thinking what the best way is to do this?
On my larger installation is a larger SmartSolar 250/85, which has a remote input (and no load output). This I want to let disconnect by a relais when the BMS kicks in and disconnects the battery. That way the system will go down. Is that the proper way? Perhaps there is an application note or some other document about this.
On the smaller system, the SmartSolar doesn't feature a remote input, so I should probably have a contactor/relay between solar and load output.
Helping a friend on his yacht commission his Lithium - and cell balancing is happening.
Set up -
The balancing is happening exactly as the manual says it will.....
"Be aware that in case of unbalance, the charger will be turned off and on by the BMS multiple times. This will manifest as follows: The charger will be on for a short period of time, then the charger will be off for a few minutes and then on again for a short time and so on. This might be repeated many times. This is nothing to be worried about. This is part of the charge process in case of unbalance and is expected behaviour. If the cells are balanced, the charger will not be turned off until the battery is fully charged."
My question is - does anyone know how long this will take ?
Only 1 battery is out of balance - and it is just 1 cell in that battery that has a high V.
Despite the BMS switching the Multiplus on and off, for nearly 2 hours, the one cell doesn't seem to be making any progress to balance with the other 3 cells in the battery.
The bank of 3 batteries keeps hitting 13.90v - and the Multiplus is switched off by BMS - and despite doing this for 2 hours - it is getting no closer to absorption 14.20v.
Can this take many many hours ?
Hey there, as I commented on the blog post,
"I'm curious if future versions will have VE.Direct or some sort of integration like that with GX devices? Currently, it seems that the MPPT and MultiPlus are able to coordinate their total charge rate with external BMS via the GX devices. But it seems that the Orion-Tr does not participate in this?"
I'm wondering if there's a way to integrate the Orion-Tr Smart chargers with the CCGX. In particular, as far as I understand, GX devices can coordinate with external BMS via CANBus to determine the charging parameters of a battery. It seems that the Victron MPPT and Victron MultiPlus can respect these limits via VE.Direct and VE.Bus respectively, which is great and a big reason why I bought this BMS and the suite of Victron product.
Now I'm considering purchasing Orion-Tr Smart chargers, however I noticed that they don't have any VE.Direct connectivity, or any other VE connectivity aside from the Bluetooth one. Is something like VE.Direct, VE.Bus or VE.Can planned? Will Orion-Tr Smart chargers integrate with GX devices?
Hi every one, I need to connect 16s3p battery banks to a Multiplus II. I have 3 Chargery 16T BMS on the 3 banks. In the system i also have Cerbo connected to the Multiplus
How do I go about to connect the 3 Chargery’s to the cerbo?
Hello! My current setup is using a VE.Bus BMS and my MultiPlus Compact 12/2000/80 was configured to that. I remember I had to install an assistant for the VE.Bus BMS. I wonder what I'll need to do now. Should I uninstall the assistant? Do I need to do something at all? Thanks!
Hello! I just replaced my VE.Bus by a Smart BMS 12/100 and I'm looking for help setting it up. I've tried to install the Two Signal BMS Assistant but I'm not sure if I had the right settings. My Multiplus isn't responding to anything.
Hi, I currently have a quattro 5000 with lithium bank 48v and I have my bms wired to the remote port on my smartsolar 150/85 which disables charging should one of the cells get to high, my question is can I also trigger this in the quatro or a multiplus to stop charging from an ac source (generator) should a cell voltage get too high? I had a look at manual for quatro but couldn't see easily, want to make sure I don't damage baterries by overcharging. Thanks.
When the VE.Bus BMS is configured in my MultiPlus II (48/3000/35), the remote on/off/charger-only options are disabled on the gx devices (Cerbo GX). What is the technical reason for this? Is there any workaround available to put the Multi into charger only mode from the Cerbo?
I am just about to spend a lot of money on loads of lovely little blue boxes and just wondered if you could help me choose between a couple of them?
I am a boater I’m afraid. My curse is that I am simply tied to a soap on a rope in the middle if a river all season. This means I have no shore power and have to take advantage of all the elements to charge my LiFePo4 battery. Wind and solar is comprehensively taken care of due to charge controllers however I’m left in some doubt over the engine charging:
I have a 230ah LiFePo4 battery bank (not Victron I’m afraid) managed by a simple Chinese BMS. My starting battery is a small 16ah lead acid. My charging source is a 15hp Honda outboard with 12a charge coil (not really an alternator)
As I see it, the simple solution is a dc-dc 18a(?) charger connected between starter and LiFePo4 but I wondered if the BMS 12/100 unit might be an alternative? I appreciate that without a Victron smart battery a significant amount of its functionality is lost but in principle, it looks like I would benefit from a higher charge rate, should I need it in the future, adjustable charge rate and a battery protect cut off with a remote control circuit. Am I correct in this or will this not work without the combination of smart batteries?
Do Victron have or ever plan to develop a battery BMS for non Victron batteries that would allow connection to the Victron BMS bus?
I also have a 50a mains to 12v charger which I hope to use for the winter lay-up months but it is not designed to be used with LiFePo4 batteries. Would running this charger to the starter battery and hence through the 12/100 bms manage the charge to the LiFePo4 bank?
Thanks in advance,
I have a Smart Solar 150/100-Tr VE.Can connected by VE.Can to a MG Energy Master LV (With 2 x 200Ah HE batteries) and a Color Control GX. There is also a Multiplus 24/3000/70-16 connected by VE.Bus on the same system.
I'm having an occasional 'Error 67 - BMS connection lost' from the Smart Solar but I have unfortunately been unable to pinpoint what exactly is causing the issue. It never happens when the solar is isolated but randomly when solar is generating. It does not automatically recover unless I clear the issue by isolating our solar panels and reconnecting. Is this a known issue with Smart Solar VE.Can variants? Details are below. Many thanks!
Smart Solar 150/100-Tr VE.Can Firmware v̶1̶.̶0̶3̶ v1.04
MG Energy Master LV Firmware v1.22
Multiplus 24/3000/70-16 (230VAC) Firmware v469
Color Control GX Firmware v2.51
I've got a Multiplus 12/3000, Cerbo GX and VE.Bus BMS at the heart of my system.
A while back I unfortunately found out that the Multiplus cannot be controlled remotely using the Cerbo GX when a VE.Bus BMS is present. The On/Off/Charge Only. The only way to control it is with the switch located on the front of the MP.
So I'm looking at other solutions to allow me to switch the Multiplus between on and charge only. I have no need for the off function.
I think relay 2 on the Cerbo GX would be good for this. Does anyone see any potential issues? My Multiplus is well out of warranty and I have no issues with removing the physical switch from the device if I can't manage to solder wires alongside it.
Please let me know what you think!