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VE.Bus BMS and MultiPlus / Cerbo combination

I have wanted to be able to control the Multiplus via the Cerbo, but the VE.Bus BMS and VE.Bus BMS Assistant on the Multiplus block the Cerbo from changing the invert state between On / Off / Invert Only / Charge Only.

Having done some testing I have reverted to the 2-Wire BMS assistant on the Multiplus and wired the VE.Bus BMS Charge Disconnect to the Aux 1 port and Pre-Alarm to Aux 2, using an Inverting remote on-off cable. I am now able to change the status of the Multiplus from within the Cerbo Screens. The Cerbo correctly shows the VE.Bus BMS status through the relevant MultiPlus screen. Both disconnected at the moment.

[image]

I also had a VE.Bus Smart Dongle and found I could modify the status of the Multiplus via my phone as well. When status changed the Cerbo reflected that changed status. So I have a system working as I would like, but not using any functionality of the VE.Bus. I guess I could have achieved the same thing using the smallBMS with pre-alarm.


What I was wondering is if anyone can advise what functionality I might have lost by disconnecting the VE.Bus BMS from the VE.Bus?

I have noticed during my testing today that there is no Alarm or Error that is logged when the VE.Bus BMS signals load or charge disconnect, simulated by disconnecting the signal. The Cerbo clearly isn't triggering on the change of the Multiplus VE.Bus BMS status. I am not sure if it ever did alarm/alert when the VE.Bus BMS was connected via the VE.Bus port to know if I lost functionality. I do know a few weeks back I had a VE.Bus BMS Charge disconnect event and never saw anything on the Cerbo.


Hope people find this useful and it would be good to understand what functionality has been lost by taking this approach and not have the VE.Bus BMS communicating on the bus.

bathnm asked
bathnm commented ·

0 Answers

REC BMS / Venus GX / BMV 712 Shunt?

I am planning an install with LiFePO4, Victron and the REC BMS. The REC BMS will already hooked up with a shunt on the neg side and will be monitoring the battery. I then plan on having the REC hooked up to the Venus GX. I want to be able to monitor things remotely using the BMV-712. Will the BMV-712 be able to get all of it's info from the REC BMS, via the Venus GX or will I need a secondary shunt on it's neg side of the BMV-712 as well? Additionally, I want to be sure that I will be able to read all the data that the REC BMS is collecting about the bank (including temp) and each individual cell that the BMS is monitoring. Will all of this data be available on the BMV-712 or would I need to forget about the Venus GX and the BMV-712 and use the CCGX instead? Based on certain installation requirements, I'd much prefer the Venus GX/BMV-712 combo, unless my monitoring requirements could not be met.

Thank you.

poppycock asked
federico993 commented ·

5 Answers

My BMS tells MultiPlus-II not to charge or discharge but MultiPlus-II ignors it.

MP-II has the proper assistant loaded.

BMS indicates that is telling MP-II not to charge o discharge, but I see current going back and forth on the battery.

Why?

Is keeping the battery at "Float" voltage not considered charging or discharging?

[image]

marekp asked
marekp commented ·

2 Answers

Multiplus Two Signal BMS Questions.

I have a multiplus 12/3000/120 and I'm looking to setup the two signal BMS assistant. I have three questions.

1. I've seen it mentioned that you have to use Aux1 and temp inputs, but when I load the assistant, I see you have the option to use Aux1 and Aux2 (though default is temp). Can I just Aux 2 and still use my temp sensor?

[image]

2. I have a Clean Power Auto MiniBMS 7 that has a main normally open contactor that will shut off the entire battery as well as two outputs that are designed for a normally closed relay. So I think I should be able to connect the BMS to the multi and configure it to be closed to turn off the charger (battery full) and turn off the inverter (battery empty). However I'm not sure about feeding 12v to the Multiplus as I've read in other threads it's not recommended. Any suggestions?

[image]

HVC turn on – 3.6V per cell
HVC turn off – 3.45V per cell
LVC turn on – 2.9V per cell
LVC turn off – 3.1V per cell

In addition to voltage hysteresis there is also 10 seconds time hysteresis for each threshold, to filter out brief voltage sags/spikes, which could be caused by engine starting or other brief heavy loads.

Cell level protection disconnects the bank if any cell is discharged to 2.6V to prevent battery damage.

Cell level protection disconnects the bank if any cell is overcharged to 3.65V to prevent battery damage.

3. I've heard it's not wise run an inverter through a contactor (which is the main protection for the BMS) is not good. I'm not sure if the inrush current is bad for the contactor (possible welding issues) or the inverter. Would something like this work: http://www.rec-bms.com/datasheet/UserManualPrecharge.pdf and would anyone know if this could be used with other products other than the REC-BMS (not my BMS) since my BMS is switching on the negative? They come in 0.5, 1.5 and 4 second delay versions.

nebulight asked
federico993 commented ·

3 Answers

Charging my LifePo4 with an alternator

Hi,

I am designing my setup but the only thing that is not clear to me is how to safely have my batteries charge through my alternator.

The battery will be a LiFePo4 battery, 12V 600Ah.
Inverter/charger Victron Phoenix 12/2500/120
700W of Solar through SmartSolar 100/50

I am still deciding on the BMS. My van is a 2006 Renault Master, so I'm pretty sure it's not one of the newer "smart alternators".

From what I can find online it looks like there might be a way to use either a BMS or a VE.Bus BMS to do this? I would like the alternator to be connected to my starter battery at all times, and connect a system to that that
A) Doesn't destroy my alternator
B) Doesn't drain my starter
C) Shuts off charging when battery is full

Has anyone already made a setup like this?

Thank you!!!

shivadas asked
Trina edited ·

4 Answers

How do i control Inverter via VE.Can connected BMS?

I'm using the Victron CCGX, v 2.23 to interface a BMS and the Victron Energy Multiplus 48V 5000VA 70 Amp inverter/charge. I send the CCGX the charge/discharge and voltage limits, as well as the other battery parameters. I expected that when the charge current i send to the victron CCGX exceeds the limit i set, the inverter/charger should switch off but this is not the case, nothing happens.

I tried turning on DVCC as directed by the manual, turning the victron CCGX to an active controller, but it still didnt work. I then noticed that there is a parameter called "BMS control", which is off and i tried turning it on but it doesn't want to turn on.

Please what am i doing wrong, how should i configure the victron CCGX to allow the BMS sent values to take control of the inverter/charger

engineering-centre asked
engineering-centre commented ·

1 Answer

Smart bms power source

Hi

I have a smart bms I purchased with my LifePo4 smart batteries. I am not in a position where I can easily return it so need to use it.
my dilemma hangs in the fact that I won’t be using the main poles as intended, should I provide power here (input pole) in the belief that it also provides the power for the unit to function? There are no other ve+ inputs on it so I assume this is a fair place to start.

graham78 asked
Matthias Lange - DE commented ·

1 Answer

Cyrix-li-load in parallel?

Hi!


Can I put 3 Cyrix-li-load in parallel to shut of an electric motor in case of low voltage?


thanks

Eliott

eliott asked
asea answered ·

1 Answer

VE.Bus BMS and Multiplus, remote switch off off Multiplus

Good afternoon,

Is there any configuration or assistant that can be applied that will allow for a remote switch off of the MultiPlus when used with the VE.Bus BMS and Cerbo GX. I know that in this configuration a DMC will allow this to happen, but I really do not want yet another panel to install (cost and space). I had hopped that a switch between the Left and Middle pins of the remote switch on the main board would work, but no luck. I am sure at some stage the ability to turn the inverter on and off through the Cerbo will be available, just as it is when no VE.Bus BMS is used.

My reason for asking is that when I leave the boat the MultiPlus, even with AES applied has been the biggest parasitic load causing a drain of 158Ah in just a week. Having turned the Multiplus off at the switch on the front the parasitic load has dropped to just under 0.2A. With the Multiplus on and in ~AES Search mode the system was drawing between .4A and .8A, occasionally going as high as 1.2A.

OK, I know I can turn the inverter off on the front panel, but that is a pain due to it's location.

bathnm asked
bathnm commented ·

3 Answers

Gateway for Phoenix to communicate of CAN with Orion BMS

I'm looking for experience around controlling Victron inverters over CANBUS. I was told by Orion that their Jr BMS could shut down discharge to protect my battery over CAN, but would likely need some sort of gateway.

chris-knauf asked
cinergi answered ·

2 Answers

Should VE.Bus BMS be shown in device list?

Hi,

I wonder if VE.Bus BMS should be visible in device list. My Victron installation has EasySolar 48/5000 (MultiPlus + BlueSolar MPPT + CCGX), 4 x 25,6V 200 Ah LiFePO4 Smart batteries, BMV-712 Smart with 1000 A shunt, VE.Bus BMS and Orion-Tr 48/12-30 DC-DC converter. The system is fed by 5,1 kW solar panel array and there are DC loads. I have successfully installed VE.Bus BMS assistant.

When I open the device list of this installation in VRM I only see Gateway (CCGX), VE.Bus System (MultiPlus), Battery Monitor (BMV-712) and Solar Charger (BlueSolar MPPT) but not VE.Bus BMS. If I open Remote Console and go to MultiPlus tab I see that VE.Bus BMS has been recognised. But when I open BlueSolar MPPT tab and Networked operation I find that it's not networked and not BMS controlled. What have I missed?

When I'm on site I can check the status of the Smart batteries on VictronConnect with my mobile phone. The batteries are connected to the VE.Bus BMS by daisy chained data cables and obviously the status information should be transmitted to the BMS, but I can't find e.g. battery temperature anywhere.

My concern is that even if the VE.Bus BMS is recognised by MultiPlus and its both leds are lit blue it still isn't fully installed.

I would be grateful for any helpful ideas.

Simo Hassi asked
Simo Hassi commented ·

3 Answers

Is there a list of suported "Two wire BMSs"

Recently I was told here, that my 123SmartBMS Gen3, that I payed over 600 Euros for, is not supported by Victron.

My problem with the Multi turning itself OFF for no apparent reason is not related to this BMS but it looks like I will not get help with this problem because I have "unsupported" BMS.

My question posted here, was moved to "Modifications Space" because my BMS is unsupported.

https://community.victronenergy.com/questions/66536/system-turns-off-without-apparent-reason.html


Is there a list of supported BMS-es that use "Two wire BMS" assistant?

marekp asked
marekp edited ·

2 Answers

Does this schematic look ok - any improvements

I have added a lithium battery to my motorboat and I am proposing to connect it as per the sketch below. I already have the shunt, smart shunt, mppt and battery chargers. From my research I think it will work? Be interested in any comments, suggestions for improvements, thanks.


[image]

madian asked
Rob Fijn answered ·

1 Answer

SBP100 no blue light

System was working well on October 14, 2020. I turned system off. Now October 30 I want system to be switched on. SBP100 does not light up. No charge is accepted from MPPT or Orionsmart. I did not find it on the device list.

I'm still optimistic This SBP will turn on. How to restart it?

All other VE devices look to be operable.

rodneyab asked
rodneyab answered ·

6 Answers

Problem with 2 wire bms assistant in ESS system allow to charge 'no' also stopping discharge

Hi im having issues with the 2 wire BMS assistant when used in one of my ESS installations, when the BMS signals to stop charging it is received by the quattro and charging is stopped but discharging is also stopped and it sends the quattro into idle mode even though allow to charge is still 'yes' and can be checked in the quattro. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

jacko asked
jacko commented ·

1 Answer

Smart BMS CL 12/100 - connections and compatibility?

I would like to connect my alternator and smart solar mppt controller to the start battery and then to the alternator/start terminal on the BMS CL 12/100. This is on a 30 ft sailboat and I don’t run the engine enough to ensure that the start battery is kept charged so this configuration would ensure that the solar charges the start battery before the house bank.

i would also like to know if the BMS CL 12/100 would work in the above scenario with non Victron LiFePO4 batteries (i.e. battle born or re-lion)

Thanks

Tim

tim22 asked

0 Answers

VE.Bus BMS and MultiPlus

I am hopping someone knows the answer to this as I am not near the boat and so can't test.

If the RJ45 VE.Bus cable between the MultiPlus and VE.Bus BMS is disconnected or the communication path is somehow interrupted such that the MultiPlus can't see the VE.Bus BMS what happens to the MultiPlus from a charge and load perspective. Does it shut down because the VE,Bus BMS Assistant is not talking the BMS or does it just keep working.

I have searched all the manuals and forums and can't find an answer.

bathnm asked
bathnm commented ·

1 Answer

Does the Multi II control SmartSolar charger as well ?

Hi,

In a installation where i have a two smartsolar MPPT chargers and one MultiPlus II and i use a propriteary BMS that i connect as described in https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Manual-Connecting-other-lithium-battery-systems-to-Multis-and-Quattros-EN.pdf e.g using the Aux I/O and Temp sense input does the Multiplus II tell the Venus/Cerbo GX which then talks with the SmartSolar to stop charge or go into float or how does that work ?

thx in advance

/Mihai

peternielsen asked

0 Answers

Trouble switching battery protect from ve.bus bms charge disconnect

I'm trying to use a Battery Protect to switch the ignition input on an external voltage regulator, to disable alternator charging. According to the Victron manuals, if I connect the ve.bus BMS load disconnect to the battery protect remote H/+ terminal, then the Battery Protect should disconnect when the charge disconnect line floats.

I've programmed the Battery Protect to mode 0-C — the lithium mode.

I'm trying to test to make sure this is working, but when I disconnect the BMS charge disconnect from the Battery Protect H/+ terminal, the relay continues to remain closed, and I have full voltage on both the input and output for the battery protect.

Can someone provide some suggestions?


pmolettiere asked
bathnm answered ·

3 Answers

Cerbo shows the wrong battery level?

Hi all :)

Yesterday I did a load test with my Multiplus 3000 and a 1800W kettle. During the off-season, I set the MPPT to charge the battery around 50% SOC. Before the test, my batteries have been drained to 80% and after the test to 61% (according to the Cerbo GX). Suddenly, shortly after the test, the battery level jumped up to 100%. What happened there?

[image]

Setup:

- 2x 200Ah 12.8V Victron Smart Batteries (parallel)

- SmartShunt 500A

- Ve.Bus BMS

- CerboGX

- Multiplus 3000

- 100/50 MPPT Victron Smart Solar


tschoeki asked
tschoeki commented ·

1 Answer

What Alerts does one get from a VE.Bus BMS connected too Cerbo

I am after some information on control signals and information flow with the VE.Bus BMS environment.

I have read the following post and done my own testing

https://community.victronenergy.com/questions/3093/vedirect-on-mppt-in-system-vebus-bms-to-multiplus.html

This has highlighted that the MultiPlus/Quatro is key to the interworking. While the Venus OS, Multiplus/Quatro and VE.Bus BMS are all connected on a single VE.Bus BMS there is dose not seem to be any information that flows directly between the VE.Bus BMS and Venus. It all flows through the MultiPlus/Quatro. Therefore it is the Multiplus/Qutro that is reacting to messages from VE.Bus BMS and passing information onto the Venus OS. The Venus OS is then able to pass information to VE.Direct or CAN.Bus connected MPPT controllers to disable charge.

What I would like to know is what functionality if any is lost or gained from using a MiniBMS or VE.Bus BMS with the 2-Wire Assistant verses using a VE.Bus BMS with the VE.Bus Assistant. I know the outcome of both approaches will be that the Multiplus/Quatro will be told by the BMS to stop charging or inverting, but what else is going on behind the scenes that would make having the load/charge disconnect on the VE.Bus?

Many Thanks

bathnm asked
bathnm answered ·

1 Answer

VE.Bus BMS verses smallBMS

As I continue to investigate and systems test to decide if I stay with the VE.Bus BMS to meet my needs, I have run into a question related to the Mains Detector. I am hop[ing someone might be able to answer.

Clearly in a load disconnect situation the VE.Bus BMS sends a signal over the VE.Bus to the Multiplus and the MultiPlus Assistant then switches the inverter off. It must switch it off in such a way that connecting the mains does not trigger the charger. Therefore the mains detector is required to switch the Multiplus back on, so it can charge the batteries.

If the smallBMS is used with the two wire assistant, does the two wire trigger a slightly different shut down of the Multiplus, such that when mains is connected it will start charging, or is the mains detector still needed.

bathnm asked
bathnm edited ·

1 Answer

VE.Bus BMS red led on and off

Hi All,

Just installed 4 smart 200ah lithium, with new multi’s (3) 12/3000/120 12v, cerbo, bms etc. Batteries are all fused individual and connected to busbar’s.

Charge disconnect is done via Mastervolt alpha pro, via bms fort the multi’s, load disconnect is organized.

The batteries are new. When charging it worked for about 3 hours with about +/-170 amps (set as limit). After a while the red led on bms started to go on and off and the chargers go up and down as well. Is this a malfunction or are the cells being balanced? the red led says hi voltage or temperature. This is not the case when I check the individual batteries with bluetooth. Some cell imbalance is there in the individual cells.

Is it normal or not?

Thx!

gertjand asked
bathnm commented ·

2 Answers

VE.Bus BMS verses smallBMS and signalling charge disconnect to MPPT controllers

As I continue to investigate the possible connection options to get my system working as I require and following on from my question about VE.Bus BMS verses smallBMS. I hope someone can help with this part of the communication flow and if any functionality is lost be using a smallBMS verses a VE.Bus BMS.

I am aware that the Cerbo is able to signal via VE.Direct or VE.Can to connected Smart MPPTs that a charge disconnect event has happened. This is confirmed in this post where Guy has stated "Yes, it works. The VE.Bus BMS will signal to the Multi on the VE.Bus, and then that will be sent to the GX device which will control the MPPTs via VE.direct or VE.Can (>2019 models only) cables."

However there is nothing about the smallBMS. The above post has a link to another post where Matthijs says "Regarding connecting: the Venus GX cant retrieve data directly from the VE.Bus BMS. So, even though they are on the same network (VE.Bus); you still need an inverter/charger in that same network to make it work.". This implies to me that the MultiPlus sends the charge / load disconnect to the Cerbo and not the VE.Bus BMS itself.

While I have a VE.Bus BMS at present it is not connected to the VE.Bus and I am using a 2-wire assistant on my Multiplus. The Cerbo shows this and when the pin on the VE.Bus BMS goes high, the Cerbo state changes too yes. So I know the Cerbo is getting the information.

[image]

So the details are getting to the Cerbo. Therefore with a smallBMS or VE.Bus BMS using 2-wire assistant, will the MPPTs still get a charge disconnect via VE.Direct or VE.Can. I am unable to test at the moment as while my MPPTs are installed the Solar panels are not yet installed.

I would like to know if when using the smallBMS, the VenusOS will still signal charge disconnect to the MPPTs, and how I can tell if the signal is getting through to the MPPTs. For info I have two VE.CVan 150/70's connected via VE.Can.


bathnm asked

0 Answers

BMS12/200 with alternator control cable?

I'm just fitting a VE Bus BMS to a BMS12/200 using the alternator control cable. I am wondering where the outgoing load cables go on the BMS12/200, as the schematic for the the Alternator control cables states that LB on the BMS12/200 will not be operational.

petekriv asked

0 Answers

Load Disconnect with Cerbo GX

Hi,


I'm looking to use a Cerbo GX with a battery with inbuilt BMS. I understand that the battery BMS logic will pass through the Cerbo and essentially disable the connected inverter from discharging when required on low SOC. How can DC loads also be disconnected in this instance when they are supplied via a Smart Battery Protect or Orion?


One option I have thought of is setting up one of the relay outputs on the Cerbo as generator start/stop dependant on low SOC, and wiring this to the control input on the Smart Battery Protect/Orion.


Any other ideas would be appreciated.

stevomyatt asked
stevomyatt edited ·

1 Answer

optocoupler/optoisolator to split allow to charge / discharge signals?

I've seen a few comments from users stating to use an optocoupler / optoisolater to split charge/discharge signalling from a 3rd party BMS to multiple downstream components... but maybe I'm dense and not seeing how that works. Can anyone take a moment and enlighten me?


Thanks!

Cory Wikel asked
mswoboda answered ·

4 Answers

Smart Solar MPPT 150/70 VE.CAN

I am about to install the above model into my system comprising a Cerbo and Smart Lithium Batteries with a VE.Bus BMS. I have been reading the manual in preparation and found the following regarding the BMS connection.

[image]

I am surprised that it suggest the VE.Bus BMS charge disconnect is connected to the L-Pin. The VE.Bus BMS will supply a high signal until a charge disconnect event occurs when the signal will drop too floating. In all other devices the VE.Bus BMS is therefore connected to the H-Pin. Even the description of the use of the L and H terminal match that in all other manual, and implies it should be connected to the H pin.

Could someone advise if this is a typo in the manual and the VE.Bus BMS should indeed be connected to the H Pin of the Smart Solar MPPT 150/70 VE.Can?

Many Thanks


bathnm asked
Matthias Lange - DE answered ·

1 Answer

BMS 12/200 and ABYC regulations

We are trying to install a LiFePO4 setup on our GRP yacht using a BMS 12/200. The electrician is saying he cant just disconnect all of the load negatives from the chassis and run them off the BMS because it wont conform to ABYC regulations. Does this therefore mean that it is impossible to use a BMS 12/200 on a yacht in the US?


chrisryan43 asked

0 Answers

SmartShunt with VE-Direct to RPi Venus and VE.Smart Networking to MPPT ?

I ordered a Victron SmartShunt 500A/50mV as BMS in a TinyHouse.


I have a Smart MPPT 100/20 and a Victron Inverter Phoenix 24/800 VE. Direct, both are connected to a Raspberry Pi 2 Venus with a VE.Direct to USB interface for logging to VRM online portal and onsite lcd screen for insights.


The SmartShunt will be connected with a VE.Drect cable and VE.Smart Networking.

The idea is to use a VE.Direct to USB interface from the SmartShunt to the RPi, so that with the setting: "has DC system" the total DC load is measured and also know the SoC of the battery.

Then also use it with a Smart Network to the Smart MPPT.
Like in: https://www.victronenergy.com/live/victronconnect:ve-smart-networking

In the manual: "A VE.Smart network containing a SmartSolar with temperature sensor and a MPPT solar charger, the solar charger receives the battery voltage and temperature information from the SmartShunt and uses this information to optimise its charge parameters. This will improve charging-efficiency and prolong battery life."

I want in the future use a Victron Energy Smart Battery Sense (mainly for temperature compensation) so that the aux input port on the SmartShunt can be used for midpoint voltage.
Can the Smart Battery Sense use the VE Smart Networking and the MPPT and the SmartShunt too also to use this temperature setting?


I want also make a VE.Direct cable connection to Venus and also monitor the midpoint voltage of the battery bank (cable included); 2x 12v in series. Is it possible to use VE.Direct cable and VE.Smart Networking at the same time?

How important is the temperature sensor? The batteries are below the roof, so in the summer there are possible high temps (> 35 celsius) and in the winter low temps (-5 < 0 celsius).


Other questions about settings of the SmartShunt:

  1. 7.1.1 Battery capacity
    With the Battery capacity setting (manual 7.1.1 Battery capacity) you set a parameter for how big your battery is. But there is no indication in the manual for what C-rating this setting is. Is it safe to asume that the setting is for a C20 rate?
    For my Victron Energy AGM Super Cycle battery (BAT412112081) this is than 125Ah

  2. 7.1.2 Charged voltage
    The Carged voltage setting is 0.2v or 0.3v below the float voltage.
    In the battery datasheet: "https://www.victronenergy.nl/upload/documents/Datasheet-AGM-Super-Cycle-battery-EN.pdf" the float voltage = 13.5 - 13.8
    (would be nice as the datasheet gives an one voltage instead of a range).

    Assume float battery voltage of 13.8 x 2 (batteries in serie) = 27,6v - 0.2v = 27,4v for charged voltage setting. What is better, to low or to high?
    The manual has a default of 26.4v Why so low?

  3. 7.1.10 Battery starts synchronised
    The batteries aren't fully charged due very clouded weather for continious days.
    So the best way is not to set the: Battery starts synchronise (manual 7.1.1) in the OFF state?

  4. 7.1.7 Charge efficiency factor
    The batteries are 2 year old. How te measure the current state of the battery? Maybe it must be less that 95%?

  5. 7.3.2 Temperature coefficient
    What is more importand, to use the aux port for temperature coefficient or for monitoring midpoint of a battery bank (2 batteries in serie)?


Sorry for the long posting, but I hope this makes the use of the SmartShunt more clearly for all the Victron Energy users around the world.



Marnix Keesmaat asked

0 Answers

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