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Is the VE.Bus BMS compatible with a Phoenix Combi 12/1600/75

I'm looking at upgrading our boats electrical system to a LiFePO4-based system. As far as the components go, I'm pretty sure I have the configuration figured out. The only thing I cannot determine, is whether our current Victron Phoenix Combi 12/1600/75 Inverter/Charger is compatible with the VE.Bus BMS. The setup I am thinking about is very similar to the example given in the VE.Bus BMS manual, shown below. Can we use our Phoenix Combi in this setup?


[image]

Richard Blaauw asked
Richard Blaauw commented ·

2 Answers

Victron/Simpbms/Tesla Setup Van build

Hi.

Starting a new van build and have some questions regarding battery setup.

I have 1 Tesla model s module (might upgrade to 2 in the future), I'm using Victron Buck boost dc dc 100a for alternator charging and a Mltiplus 3000w inverter.

For BMS I want to use the SIMP BMS together with a Victron gx type, this is where I have some questions and in need of some tips.

Anyone in here that uses a similar setup? Experiences?

Do you use contactors, precharge contactors as fail-safe system or Victron battery protect?

Current sensor via simp bms or victron battery monitor?

Charge enable/disable for temperatur high low, any way to trigger a heating pad?

Anyone tried simp with the cerbo gx?

A lot of questions here. Not much info on the simp bms/victron setup.


aasgardvidar asked
Basti commented ·

2 Answers

Multiplus is tripping Battle Born battery BMS

Hello, I have a Multiplus 2000/12 connected to a single Battle Born Lithium battery. Every now and then when I turn the Multiplus on (using on/off switch, not the hard switch on the Multiplus) it trips the BMS on the Battle born. Then I have to disconnect the battery and reconnect to reset the BMS. I have no idea what is causing this. This usually starts happening when I turn off the power to the Multiplus without turning off the Multiplus first. Then it starts this vicious cycle of tripping the battery every time I send power to the Multiplus. I have checked all the wires and everything is tight and isolated. It almost seems like something is bad with the Multiplus or Battle Born. Both the Multiplus and Battle born are brand new. I haven't even started using the Inverter yet just the charging.

I did fire up the inverter on a test run and the buzzing was really loud (normal?) and then it too tripped the BMS after 2-3 seconds.

Thanks for any help. I live in Colorado and I can't find anyone I can pay to come and help figure it out. It seems even the distributors of Victron don't know how to service them. Also, I have had Victron pros in this community validate my schematics, but happy to post again.

Kaplan78 asked
Streborg commented ·

11 Answers

Alternator Charging - Orion vs BMS CL 12/100

Hi,

I'm planning a set up for charging a Victron Smart Lithium 12v 200ah battery from the alternator of my van (a 2012 Mercedes Sprinter 313cdi).

I will have Dometic Freshwell 3000 air conditioning unit in the back of the van which I would like to be able to use while driving and on hookup. The plan is to run it through a Multiplus Compact 12 2000 as it requires 230v AC - 4.2amps to run.

4.2a @ 230v = ~1000W, the Multiplus will need maybe 1250W supply when considering losses?, more losses in getting the power to the multiplus, through the leisure battery, from the charger/alternator means maybe working on the basis that 1500W is required from the 12v alternator?

125amps required from the alternator - is that a fair estimate?

I need to check the alternator I have fitted but could look at upgrading if it is not 180a+

What is the best way to ensure that the supply of power from the alternator/starter battery to the leisure battery is enough to offset the demand of the multiplus/aircon and not result in flattening the battery(s) on long journeys?

Options that might work:

  • Multiple Orions in parallel - seems over the top to have 4+ orions in parallel just to achieve 120amps
  • 1x BMS CL 12/100 for 100amps, in parallel with 1x orion for 130amps total - benefit of BMS included and the voltage controlled charging from the orion to help top up the Lithium battery.


Any suggestions on how to make this work are much appreciated.

Cheers,

K

Kieran McMonagle asked
Matthias Lange - DE commented ·

2 Answers

VE.Bus BMS to Phoenix 12/1200 - How to connect load disconnect?

I've been unable to find clear information on how to correctly connect the BMS load disconnect to the Phoenix 12/1200. Special cable or just a connection to the right or left remote socket on the inverter?

Paul asked
Matthias Lange - DE answered ·

1 Answer

EMUS BMS integration to the Color Control GX

Hello,

I want to install a 48V LiFePO4 Battery system with an EMUS BMS, if I connect the EMUS BMS to the CCGX do I still need a BMV in order the monitor my battery on the CCGX?

Thanks in advance

Kai Behrends asked

0 Answers

VE.Bus BMS and Multiplus, remote switch off off Multiplus

Good afternoon,

Is there any configuration or assistant that can be applied that will allow for a remote switch off of the MultiPlus when used with the VE.Bus BMS and Cerbo GX. I know that in this configuration a DMC will allow this to happen, but I really do not want yet another panel to install (cost and space). I had hopped that a switch between the Left and Middle pins of the remote switch on the main board would work, but no luck. I am sure at some stage the ability to turn the inverter on and off through the Cerbo will be available, just as it is when no VE.Bus BMS is used.

My reason for asking is that when I leave the boat the MultiPlus, even with AES applied has been the biggest parasitic load causing a drain of 158Ah in just a week. Having turned the Multiplus off at the switch on the front the parasitic load has dropped to just under 0.2A. With the Multiplus on and in ~AES Search mode the system was drawing between .4A and .8A, occasionally going as high as 1.2A.

OK, I know I can turn the inverter off on the front panel, but that is a pain due to it's location.

Bathnm asked
JustMurph edited ·

2 Answers

Trouble switching battery protect from ve.bus bms charge disconnect

I'm trying to use a Battery Protect to switch the ignition input on an external voltage regulator, to disable alternator charging. According to the Victron manuals, if I connect the ve.bus BMS load disconnect to the battery protect remote H/+ terminal, then the Battery Protect should disconnect when the charge disconnect line floats.

I've programmed the Battery Protect to mode 0-C — the lithium mode.

I'm trying to test to make sure this is working, but when I disconnect the BMS charge disconnect from the Battery Protect H/+ terminal, the relay continues to remain closed, and I have full voltage on both the input and output for the battery protect.

Can someone provide some suggestions?


pmolettiere asked
pmolettiere commented ·

1 Answer

CerboGX+(Smart-Shunt) oder Strommesser besser an BMS

Hallo Leute.

Baue ein System mit 2 Tesla ModelS-Modulen, MultiPlus-II, CerboGX und SimpBMS.

Über das Interface des CerboGX möchte ich meinen Energiefluss in/aus der Batterie sehen.

Entsprechend frage ich mich, ob ich einen Victron (Smart) Shunt kaufen soll, oder an das SimpBMS den LEM CAB 300/500 Stromsensor hänge. Aktuell bin ich mir unsicher, was mehr Sinn macht.

Vermutlich würde SimpBMS die Information fehlen, wenn ich einen Victron (Smart) Shunt verbaue. Aber kann der CerboGX bei angeschlossenem SimpBMS mit dem LEM CAB Stromsensor den Energiefluss anzeigen?

Hoffe, es kennt sich jemand aus. SimpBMS haben ja ein paar von euch im Einsatz...

Basti asked
Basti edited ·

0 Answers

BMS 12/200 Connection & Communication with SmartSolar Controller.

Hi.

I'm in the process of installing solar for a customer on their narrowboat in the UK. The Lithium setup is already there fitted by a boatyard. I'm fitting 2*340 watt panels with SmartSolar 100/50 controller.

Setup of the system I'm installing to is:

2* Victron LFP- 12.8/100

BMS 12/200

Victron BMV 712 Smart

Victron 12/1600/70 Multiplus

350Amp Blue Sea switch Isolating Multiplus and main +ve busbar from Victron +ve terminal.


I haven't gone through chasing all cables as need to remove some woodwork and ran out of time but the system seems to be simple as in the basic diagram manual for BMS 12/200 :

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Manual-BMS-12-200-EN-NL-FR-ES-DE.pdf

Except the MultiPlus installed where the inverter is in the diagram on LB terminal (no orion DC-DC converter). No extra VE Bus BMS, communication leads with MultiPlus, Cyrix connections to BMV.


1. I'm assuming the SmartSolar controller battery -ve is connected to the LB terminal? Found this post: https://community.victronenergy.com/questions/7852/bms-12200-with-both-alternator-and-solar-charge-so.html ..and I just adjust the battery presets in the SmartSolar to LiFePo4? So there's no other communication between the SmartSolar and BMS, and SmartSolar will go back into bulk if batteries are discharged slightly during the day?


2. Would be nice if I could connect SmartSolar Battery Connections to main Bus Bars but I'm connecting +ve SmartSolar terminal to +ve battery terminal (~ 2M 16mm cable with Midi fuse holder) so it bypasses the isolator switch. I assume I can connect SmartSolar -ve to the main negative busbar (~1.5Metres of 95mm cable to BMS 12/200 LB terminal) and minimise -ve SmartSolar cable run in 16mm.


3. There's a 60 amp fuse fitted at AB terminal limiting alt. to 40A. Next size Mega Fuse is 80A limiting current to 70A. Is it possible to bolt the ATO fuse holder ontop of the 60A to allow finer adjustment between the 40 & 70 amp?


Gone through the Journey with Jono Vlog where Jono describes how his Victron solar setup is installed - Using VE Bus BMS, Cyrix, BMV monitor to communicate with the SmartSolar and MultiPlus even though setup has the BMS 12/200 and seems v similar to the setup I'm working on. It seems so complicated. As far as I can see (with absolutely no experience) don't need any BMS VE.Bus to communicate with SmartSolar/MultiPlus/BMV etc. and BMS 12/200 does everything normally needed. So am I missing something?


Sorry if the detail is in the manuals but it's still unclear to me and first time I've got involved with fitting solar to Lithium.


Thanks, Ed

fc_marine asked
fc_marine edited ·

0 Answers

Orion-Tr Smart, VE.Direct and integration with GX devices?

Hey there, as I commented on the blog post,

"I'm curious if future versions will have VE.Direct or some sort of integration like that with GX devices? Currently, it seems that the MPPT and MultiPlus are able to coordinate their total charge rate with external BMS via the GX devices. But it seems that the Orion-Tr does not participate in this?"

I'm wondering if there's a way to integrate the Orion-Tr Smart chargers with the CCGX. In particular, as far as I understand, GX devices can coordinate with external BMS via CANBus to determine the charging parameters of a battery. It seems that the Victron MPPT and Victron MultiPlus can respect these limits via VE.Direct and VE.Bus respectively, which is great and a big reason why I bought this BMS and the suite of Victron product.

Now I'm considering purchasing Orion-Tr Smart chargers, however I noticed that they don't have any VE.Direct connectivity, or any other VE connectivity aside from the Bluetooth one. Is something like VE.Direct, VE.Bus or VE.Can planned? Will Orion-Tr Smart chargers integrate with GX devices?

aybabtme asked
Basti answered ·

6 Answers

Control of Victron Multiplus by Venus OS (on/off/charge and input current limit) when VE.Bus BMS is in teh system

Good morning,

The limitation of not being able to use Venus OS (Cerbo GX) to control the state of the MultiPlus (on/off/charge) or the input current limit) when there is no DMC and a VE.Bus BMS is being used is becoming a real issue for me.

I was wondering if I moved from using the VE.Bus BMS Assistant to the Two-signal BMS, if the ability for Venus OS to control these parameters is possible. I would connect Charge Disconnect from the VE.Bus BMS to Aux Input 1 and set the assistant so when open the battery is full and force to float. Then connect Load Disconnect to Aux Input 2 for battery is empty.

Would this work?

Bathnm asked
Bathnm commented ·

1 Answer

Quattro 12/5000/220 With CCGX - Strange Issues, Need Help

I’m working on a marine install of a Quattro 12/5000/220, coupled with a 10kw generator, shore power hookup, 3kw of Solar Power split across 8 victron mppts, and 5 x 300 AH Victron Smart Lithium Batteries.

For the most part, everything works ok I guess, as long as I’m constantly here to manage it...there are weird issues though that I’m trying to track down, especially when transitioning from the generator.

Ok, so a list of the stuff I’m chasing:

1.) Unless I turn off ”Monitor for shore power disconnect” - I must constantly clear and reset ”Grid Lost” errors all through the day, and they never clear themselves.

2.) The Tiles Page Dashboard quite often doesn’t reflect what the component list shows. There are a number of times it will say ”Unknown” in all the tiles, and / or show the Quattro as “Off” when in fact its inverting. This possibly could be just a refresh issue, but it’s hard to know what’s actually happening when they don’t match. (I don’t think this is one of the important issues overall)

3.) The CCGX is rebooting itself at odd times. Usually when the generator stops in the AM, and switches back over to PV, when I go to the CCGX to view status, the first click of a button sends it into a reboot.

4.) In the system setup in the CCGX it shows BMS control set to “off”.

5.) In the battery details, none of the details are available in the CCGX (maybe this is normal?). I get the overall SOC, AH, Amps, Voltage...etc. But looking into the details, none of the cell level information is available. The page fields are all [—] [—]


I use VE Configure to program using mostly defaults. I check the box to enable the battery monitor, I set the battery type to Lithium using the battery changer dialog, and I’ve loaded the BMS assistant, Everything writes to the Quattro without issues, all messages say successful, and I reset the Quattro, and the CCGX each time afterwards.


If this is better as multiple questions, let me know, I just figured maybe a “bigger picture” list might be useful information overall.


Thank you in advance.

Bryan asked
ben commented ·

1 Answer

Smart BMS CL 12 volt 100amp, shutting down

The installation is on a boat located in the Central Coast of NSW, Australia. The customer purchased 3 x lithium 12 volt, 100ah batteries, smart BMS, BMV712, smart battery protect. An existing start battery was in existence. The Victron gear is for onboard services, radio, cooker, lighting etc


There is a separate isolation switches for both starter battery and lithium batteries. When I disconnect the lithium batteries the system shuts down. All good.

When I disconnect the starter battery alone the system shuts down also even though the lithium batteries are connected and on. Is this normal behaviour?




SteveMc asked
Matthias Lange - DE answered ·

1 Answer

Cannot get Multiplus BMS Assistant to install

I am unable to load and run VE.Bus BMS assistant on the Multiplus. I am using the MK3 to USB interface with Windows 10 and VE Configure. I used Victron Connect to update the Multiplus to the latest firmware without difficulty. Due to "docs.victronenergy.com/victronconnect.vebus.html#limitations" instructions I am using VE Configure application to setup the VE.Bus BMS Assistant according to the "Victron VW Van Electrics Install - Episode 3 Mains Electricity" video. At the point where the video says select the "Start Assistant" button followed by "Next" there is a requirement to set the dip switches 1=on and 2 = off. As soon as the dip switches are changed the Multiplus becomes unresponsive. I also tried with the switches set 1=off 2=on. In both cases the Multiplus remained unresponsive until I used Victron Connect app to reinstall the latest firmware. What I am I doing wrong while trying to get the VE.Bus BMS Assistant installed?

mamusa asked
Matthias Lange - DE answered ·

1 Answer

Integrating 123\SmartBMS with Victron components like the Multiplus and Smartsolar mppt?

Any suggestions for available/recommended relays/integrations between these components? My understanding is that 123 smartbms has a relay connection that should be able to talk to the multiplus....but I'm not yet certain of the specifics.

Stephen Otto asked
JeroenD answered ·

5 Answers

CCGX / Quattro / BMS issue

Very easy one for experts i am sure!


I recently added another victron smart battery to my bank..

I re-routed a few wires to keep them tidy - like the bms ethernet cables etc then re-assembled as i previously fitted them

When i came to turn the Quattro it wouldn't turn on. The CCGX could not see it ( shown as unknown on the display )

I had to re-start the CCGX. While the CCGX was off the Quattro turned on then the CCGX came on recognising the Quattro and working as normal.


This is still the case. So if i turn the quattro off ( when i park my rv up for the week ) when i come to switch it back on i have to reset the CCGX to get the quattro to turn on.


Is this normal?


System incorporates 3 x lithium smart batteries , VE bus BMS and quattro and Victron smart BMS


Thankyou


JAY

jaywolfe asked
jaywolfe answered ·

2 Answers

BMV vs. BMS for Loads

If I use a BMV 712 to cut loads to my lithium batts via a batteryprotect, do I still need the BMS involved for loads as well? Ideally, I want to cut my non-critical loads around 30% SOC but want to make sure that my batts are still protected from other issues. Can't quite find how do that.

Paul asked
Paul B answered ·

1 Answer

What happens if the Lynx Ion Shunt BMS looses it Can-Bus connection with the batteries?

We have a Lynx-Ion BMS shunt 1000A with 20 x 200Ah Victron batteries connected via Can-Bus.

We found out that the Can -Bus termination resistor is not making good contact in its RJ45 socket in the Shunt. What happens if the Shunt looses its contact via Can-bus with the batteries?

Because we experience weird alarms right now. (State error (10), Over Voltage alarm, and a few seconds later Undervoltage alarm?) The SOC is 100%.

PBET asked

0 Answers

victron bms wont allow quattro to charge or invert.

Hi

I have been having some issues with my system after i added a 3rd smart battery.

Firstly the Quattro would only turn on when i did a re-detect on the CCGX. But after then it would operate as normal.

We went away last weekend and i noticed the batteries were down to 30% when i raedy to come home. , however we were on shore power. The quattro was marked on the CCGX as in pass-thro mode although the unit was physically switched to ON.

When i checked the graphs in VRM the unit operated correctly Inverting as we tavelled then charging the batteries on arrival when connected to shore power.. Soon a the unit switches to passthrough mode where it stayed.

When i got back i have updated the firmwire in both the ccGx and the Quattro to the latest.

On completion this allowed the Quattro to Charge.

But this was because i updated the Quattro using the Android connect app and despite configuring the charge settings for Lithium i then had to use the remote vrm to reload the ve bms assistant.

As soon as i uploaded the assistant the Quattro went back into pass thro mode which allows just the AC through to power connected loads on the AC out but nothing else.

SO i can assume the VE BMS is telling the Quattro not to allow charge or discharge.

I also have a red low battery flashing red light on the Quattro. my Batteries are not low they are now at 79%. No faults showing on the bms etc


I have attached a rough schematic of my system .

[image]

I have also attached a screenshot of the widgets if this helps at the point the inverter changed to passthro

[image]


On my CCGX settings the VE bus shows

"an assistent is loaded an configured for a BMS but none can be found"

the settings box for the bms has allow to charge / discharge disabled and BMS error as YES

I intend to check all my RG45 leadsand wires etc as a first port of call tomorrow.

I will also connect the batteries individually to see if there is a problem there although they all look fine on the connect app

But what else should I check?

i was considering swapping the bms for another to cross out that being faulty?


I would really appreciate some help with this one

jaywolfe asked
jaywolfe answered ·

3 Answers

BMS 12/200 Battery Control Cable

Hi,


we have just installed the BMS 12/200 as part of a marine lifepo install together with BatteryMonitor 712 and Victron Superpack as well as Multiplus Compact 12/1600.

The pack did not come with Battery Control cables shown in the wiring diagram in the manual so I guess they are optional?

All seems to be fine BUT the voltage of either the Alternator (AB) or Battery Charger (LB) does not arrive at the Lithium Minus Out in the middle of the BMS 12/200.

So I can neither charge nor discharge the lithium batteries through the BMS at the moment. All other components work fine.


any help much appreciated!


thanks,

Valerian

vvoegele asked
Dominic Planel commented ·

2 Answers

Orion TR smart 12/12 30 manual Fig 4: engine detection override/BMS cable

section 4.5 page 10 figure 4 has image of cables/wire between switch poles and BMS. the image unfortunately is unclear. the cable appears to be a built Victron item, I do not see it in accessories/cables/products. Can someone clarify which specific cable item is pictured?

rodney abbott-buchanan asked
Bathnm commented ·

1 Answer

How to connect a BMS to phoenix 12/3000 inverter?

Can someone please help me out? I would like to know how to connect the victron bms to my 12/3000 Inverter and also have a on/off switch connected to the inverter.



Jaym asked
Matthias Lange - DE commented ·

2 Answers

VE.Bus BMS System on/off switch & fuse

Hi there,
In the VE.Bus BMS manual, the installation diagram for a Multiplus shows a
"System on/off switch" connected to the Battery + on the BMS
And it shows a fuse connected between the switch and the battery positive terminal
I have circled them both in green below:

[image]



I am wondering, for a 24 system:
* What would be appropriate gauge wire for these connections
* What would be an appropriate switch for this connection
* What would be appropriate fuse for this connection

Thank you in advance :)

OffGrid asked
Matthias Lange - DE answered ·

1 Answer

Multiplus + GX-Device + Tesla Module -> is SimpBMS (currently) the best solution?

Hi guys.


I am planning on building a somewhat "portable" battery bank in a box.

DC side will be 2 Model S-Modules in series.

Current set of hardware at hand (to be expanded):

  • 2 Models S-Modules
  • Victron Multiplus II 48/3000
  • Cerbo GX

I am leaning towards SimpBMS, but would like to know if there are other suggestions, and systems which will communicate with Victron (trough GX device)?

Any other suggestions on (DC) specific hardware?

Currently I am relatively open, but would like to avoid shunts/Relays wherever possible, to limit standby-power, so leaning towards a DC breaker (with a trip coil). Experiences/suggestions/further thoughts?


Basti asked

0 Answers

EasySolar 24/3000 & VE.Bus BMS - Do I need a Digital Multi Control?

Hi there!

I have the following units (not connected yet)

EasySolar 24/3000 (includes a Color Control GX)

2x 12,8v 200ah LiFePO4 Lithium Smart Batteries

VE.Bus BMS

The VE.Bus BMS manual says it requires a Color Control or Digital Multi Control
It also says don't connect the control panel directly to the Multi or Quatro (signals from the control panel may be in conflict with signals from the VE.Bus BMS)

So I'm wondering if the Color Control on the EasySolar is the only control I need
Or if I also require another control connected directly to the BMS ??

Thanks very much in advance :)

OffGrid asked
OffGrid commented ·

1 Answer

Internal vs External BMS pros and cons

Interested in thoughts regarding Victron batteries with external BMS vs integrated BMS batteries like Battle Born or Victron.

Thanks for Steve Mitchell for his detailed information on a Victron system install.

Have a 2001 Beneteau 361 upgrading from the original Xantrex Freedom 20 to a LiFePO4 & Victron system.

What do you 'lose' or 'gain' by going with the integrated BMS batteries (Battle Born) vs the Victron with external BMS?

scfoster asked
Matthias Lange - DE answered ·

1 Answer

Multiplus 24/5000 ignores 3 pos. remote switch

I have a Multiplus 24/5000 running on Victron lithium batteries with a VE.Bus BMS and Cerbo GX. I have wired in a 3 position switch for remotely controlling the unit, seeing as the Cerbo can't do it if you have a VE.Bus BMS.

It seems that the 3 position switch option doesn't work either. With the switch on the Multi set to ON, the unit will invert with the remote switch in either the ON or OFF position, however it will respond to the "CHARGE" position. I've checked my wiring and it's correct. You get the same behaviour with the terminal block removed completely.

Is this the same limitation of only one device being able to switch the Multi, with the BMS overruling everything else?

Would a Digital Multi Control also not work?

This seems like a pretty major oversight in the design.

JustMurph asked
JustMurph answered ·

2 Answers

turning quattro on / off from the remote console

I have a Quattro connected to victron smart batteries with a VE BMS. I don't have the multi control.

I would like to be able to switch the quattro between ON / OFF / CHARGE ONLY remotely via the VRM app. Just for example if i forget to switch it when i leave the rv

Currently i can't switch the Quattro via the CCGX - in the console tab it says it is not possible because i have a VE bus BMS connected.


How do i go about this please?


JAY

jaywolfe asked
jaywolfe edited ·

0 Answers

Danger Reverse Current when using Battery Protect for charging

Hi together,

I have a question concerning using a BatteryProtect (BP) to disconnect the charge source in a Lithium Battery System with VE.bus bms.

In the BP manual Figure 5 illustrates how to connect the BP for charging situation and it states that "uncontrolled reverse current will flow through a Battery Protect if Vout > Vin."

Now I wonder what happens, when the Voltage of the charger (Vin) drops, i.e. Solar charger when there is no sun or any other charging source that is swithched of. Wouldn't then the Voltage of the Battery (Vout) be higher and thus reverse current flow causing danger?

THanks a lot for your comments, I am abit affraid of burning down my RV...

cheers, Daniel

DanielK asked
kiko commented ·

6 Answers

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