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Outboard alternator charging lithium

Question

To charge a 12V LiFePO4 from an outboard alternator charging coil, what product is suitable to regulate the charging?

System Components

Outboard: Manual start, Honda BF6, 12V 6A charging coil
Battery: Lithium (LiFePO4), 12Ah, max charging rate 0.8C (9.6A)

Research Done

Watched the Victron Q&A Webinar 1 - Using an Alternator to charge Lithium video, and understand that since the battery has a larger C rating than the alternator, alternator current must be restricted using a Smart Orion or similar.

Options Found

Using the VictronConnect app to check the interfaces via the demo mode. Nothing appears suitable:

- Phoenix Smart Charger IP43 12|30 has "maximum charge current" settings of 7.5A, 15A and 30A, the minimum is too high for the alternator

- Orion Smart 12V|14V-18A Isolated has a LiFePO4 battery preset but no current limit settings (just voltage), and it isn't clear if it's ok with the variable output from an outboard.

- Blue Smart Charger 12|5 can limit charging to 2A or 7A, but is mains powered, and the 2A lower limit loses 4A of potential charging, while the 7A upper limit is too high for the alternator.


Which Victron product will allow the charge to be limited to a safe current for the alternator?

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I am in a 3m open-top inflatable boat so the system needs to be compact, light, and simple.

neepsandtatties asked
ddickov edited ·

1 Answer

AGM settings

Hi All.

Sorry for another setting question.
I have just had to replace my second 120ah AGM in 14months and short of getting 2 faulty batteries I need to know why. Both batteries had very little use. last one sat in my shed connected to the controller for 5 months and failed on my first camp 2 weeks ago.

I have a 75/10 set to agm and thought that was all I needed. Left it connected to a small panel thinking I was doing the right thing keeping it topped up.

What am I doing wrong?

Thanks, Darren.

razzle308 asked
kevgermany answered ·

11 Answers

Using Multiplus II GX to apply a "Freshening Charge"

My SBS Super Safe T 12V 190amp/hr batteries state in their manual that once OCV drops to 12.6V due to cyclic use, they should be given a "Freshening Charge" at 14.1-14.4V constant voltage with a charging current of less than 19A for 24 hours.

Can I use the Victron charger to achieve this while in the battery bank, or is it best to remove each battery from the bank and charge individually on a separate charger?

tezza5555 asked

0 Answers

Qty 4 12volt Batteries Wired for 24volt Output

Just a quick question. So on my motor coach, the starter requires 24volts. It has qty 4 12volt batteries wired for 24volts output. I'm looking to get a Victron charger, and wondering if I should have get the 24volt charger or the 12 volt charger. I assume the 24volt charger put wanted to clarify with all you smart folks.

Thanks in advance

mxride asked
kevgermany answered ·

1 Answer

Charging unit for a LiFePO4

Hi,

I just bought an old camper van and there is a victron system built in. The battery (LiFePO4 12.8V/100Ah) is charged via alternator.

Now, I would also like to be able to charge the battery from a 220 wall socket.

What charger would you recommend?

These parts are already on board:

  • Battery Management System VE.Bus BMS, 17724
  • Smart Battery Protect 12/24V 65A, 18974
  • Smart Battery Protect 12/24V-100A, 18975
  • Lade-Wandler VCC 1212-30, 18017
  • LiFePO4 Battery 12.8V/100Ah Smart, 1280Wh


Sorry, competely new to this.

Many thanks,
Cmyk


cmyk asked
kevgermany edited ·

2 Answers

Appropriate charger for my battery Blue Smart PI65 10 or 15 Amp

I am looking for a suitable charger for my 100Ah flooded lead-acid battery. I have doubts between the following Victron Blue Smart IP65 12/10 and 12/15 models, but I'm not sure which one would be suitable? According to the battery manufacturer, the recommended charging current for my battery is 1/10 of the capacity, i.e. 10 A. I would like to have some space for future upgrade to a higher capacity. Can I also use the 15A charger for the 100Ah battery without damaging the battery?

mikisound asked
Alwin Schulze answered ·

1 Answer

Charging with a Orion 24/12-25A DC-DC converter?

Can I use my Orion 24/12-25A DC-DC converter to charger a LiFePO4 batter with built in BMS.?

If so, would i just adjust the output to 14.4V

damian asked
nicetrip edited ·

1 Answer

Alternator Current Limiter without Smart BMS CL 12/200

Hi everyone, I am currently planning to replace the existing electricity system on my 34ft sail boat and have 2 questions that I was unable to answer despite extensive googling / forum reading. Would appreciate your help.

Goal: I am trying to figure out an alternative to the Smart BMS CL 12/200 that will allow me to limit the current drawn on my alternator when charging my 160Ah lithium house battery.

Rationale: While the Smart BMS CL seems to be perfect for this job, it does not have a VE.bus port that would allow me to connect it to a Cerbo GX which I need to display energy system data on my B&G/Navico chart plotter.

My planned setup: sail boat with onboard diesel engine and solar cells as sole sources of electricity (decidedly no allowance for shore power as it lives on a mooring). 12v circuit. Lead acid starter battery and victron smart lithium as hope battery. SmartSolar MPPT and 2 BatteryProtects currently by the Smart BMS CL. Phoenix VE inverter. This is still in planning phase so I could change it all up if necessary.

Second question: if I keep the current planned setup with the Smart BMS CL, how can I make sure the solar charger also charges the start battery?



white-russsian asked
hjohnson answered ·

2 Answers

Blue Smart IP22 Charger 12v 30A UK Plug Fuse

Hi - I have a Blue Smart IP22 Charger 12v 30A charger hooked up to 3 95aH AGM batteries in parallel. This has been used on shore power without issue to charge batteries from around 95% to 100% without issue, however when I've used this at home to charge from 85% it seems to have blown the 5amp fuse in the UK plug, has anyone else had issues with this, or can suggest any reasons why it would be blowing this fuse? To me it seems like 5amp for this fuse is small on a 30amp charger but I'm trusting it's right as that's what came from the supplier? Thanks!

kylec-03 asked
idunne answered ·

2 Answers

Einige Fragen zur Lead Carbon Batterie

Ein freundliches Hallo aus Berlin,
ich möchte auf einem Boot Lead Carbon Batterien (Victron 160Ah) einsetzen. Auf Grund ihrer hohen Entladerate und die schnellere Ladezeit find ich es eine Alternative zu Lithium. Die Lithium sind mir im Moment noch zu teuer. Ich benötige um min 2 Tage autark zu sein etwa 450 Ah/Tag (im Winter durch die Heizung) im Sommer sind es um die 350Ah/Tag. Es sind keine Solarzellen vorhanden. Als Ladegerät habe ich einen MultiPlus 12V/3000VA/120AP, Lichtmaschine ca 120 A, Generator 230V / 2500W.

Nun meine Fragen:

  • Kann ich die Batterien mit der Lichtmaschine laden oder brauche ich eine Booster, wenn ja welche Leistung sollte er haben?
  • Die Temperaturkompensation?
  • Absorptionsinterwall?
  • Wiederholte Absorptionszeit?
  • Maximale Absorptionszeit?

Gibt es bereits Erfahrungen mit diesem Batterietyp?


Vielen Dank …

Torsten

torben asked
torben answered ·

2 Answers

Skyla 24/80 Not Charging.

Hi, I’ve an issue with a Skyla 24/80 not charging, the power light is on, and the bulk light is on, like it’s trying to charge the batteries, but the voltage led’d show no voltage, and the amperage led’s show only 8A? The input voltage is 240v with 52hz, the input fuse tests fine, and so does the mega fuse on the output. Not sure if it’s a motherboard issue if anyone can help? Thanks, john

clarkson66 asked
Obo answered ·

1 Answer

EasySolar-II-GX not charging

Hi to all,

I have an EasySolar-II-GX 48/3000 system that went live yesterday and won't charge the battery bank. There is sufficient PV voltage. System parameters are:

- PowerPlus Energy (Aust) Lipo battery bank installed, user defined battery settings as per spec.

- Off grid system & no generator. A.C charge capability disabled.

- Multiplus firmware V471

- MPPT firmware V1.46

- GX device firmware V2.53

It appears the MPPT controller is stuck in OFF state as the remote input to it is held LOW by the GX device. Remote input voltage level checked with multimeter at 0 volts.

If I remove the remote control link wire from GX to MPPT and bridge MPPT remote input (H to L) as per manual then the MPPT operates as expected and charges batteries.

My question is, under what circumstances does the GX device inhibit the MPPT charge operation?

I have updated all firmwares and may have inadvertently upset one of the settings somewhere so an incorrect setting may be the cause.

Any help appreciated.

Kind regards, Andrew.


[image]


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outbackandy asked
kanecharles92 answered ·

4 Answers

Charging Lithium Batteries with Wind Turbine (In addition to my PV + Victron controller)

Hello. I am still new to the world of solar/renewable energy. I have become involved as my boat now has two Victron 100/30 MTTP controllers for the 2x310w solar panels. These charge my Lithium batteries -- well they will, the lithium batteries will only be installed next week (today lead acid batteries are installed). Of course, these controllers are configurable and I will swap them over to the lithium settings as we drop the new batteries in.

I am adding a Wind Turbine to help out during times of little or no sun - while the supplier tells me that its fine to connect to the batteries, I am deeply concerned due to the lack of any configurability on the (supplied in the same box) wind turbine controller.
So I was considering (without sufficient knowledge so that I why I am here) adding a

Orion-Tr Smart 12/12-30A Non-Isolated DC-DC charger between the provided controller and the battery. My goal is to regulate/clean and control the power coming from the wind turbine.
I also saw a couple of suggestions to use the Victron BMS to do the same job.


Can you please help me with a solution - not requiring too much knowledge or a major build-out -- I want to protect the lithium as much as possible.


Thanks heaps for your input.

chris-4 asked

0 Answers

Combining MPPT, DC2DC and battery charger

Hi All,

We are building a camper van. I have a 200ah gel battery which has a recommended max charging current of 40A.

I want to add a 12|12 - 30 (alternator while driving) charger, but also have solar (100/30 MPPT) and also a 30A 220v charger. So each individually are fine, but if the camper is connected to 220V, the sun is out and I start the engine, I guess that adds up to 90A?

Any suggestions on how to make this a safe charging combination (other than: make sure only one is engaged at the time, because at some point you'll simply forget once).

Thanks!

Walter.

walto asked
JohnC answered ·

4 Answers

Phoenix charger 12/50

I have a 12v lithium 340AH battery with 600w of solar connected and 12v loads. I will connect charger to a generator to charge battery when solar is not sufficient. Can I connect the charger with the solar and 12v loads connected?

Cheers

brunodemo asked
steffen-graap answered ·

2 Answers

Does Bluesolar MPPT 100/30 have storage mode?

I have a Multiplus Compact 12/800 working in parallel with a Bluesolar MPPT 100/30 charge controller on a boat that is only used sporadically on weekends. Does the solar source prevent the batteries from being held at a storage mode voltage of 13.2V ? Do the MPPT controllers have a storage mode incorporated in their charging algorithm?

julio-georgiou asked
xsilvergs edited ·

3 Answers

SmartSolar MPPT 150/85 VE.Can - No current flow in Bulk with PV at VOC

I have a SmartSolar MPPT 150/85 VE.Can connected to 6 320W Renogy solar panels wired in 2 parallel series of 3 panels on an RV. I have 15A fuses on each string and a 25A circuit breaker in between the fuses and the MPPT charger. The new system has worked fine for weeks, until one morning after a day of the charger being in float mode for most of the day, both 15A fuses were blown, but the 25A breaker was not tripped. I also noticed that the charger said that the PV Array voltage was within a volt of the battery bank when the array was actually at 0V and/or completely disconnected.

[image]

After replacing the fuses, the charger seemed to work for the rest of the day. By the next day, one of the 15A fuses was blown. Part way through the following day, the charger stopped charging altogether even though no fuses were blown or circuit breakers tripped.

[image]

Now, when the charger is in bulk mode during the day, it reports the battery voltage and PV array voltage but no (<5W) of actual charging, At night, it still reports a PV array voltage of approximately the battery bank voltage.

[image]


warren-b asked
kevgermany commented ·

3 Answers

MPPT 75/15 charging voltage below 13v


My question is about something I do not understand.

[image]

My setup is an MPPT 75/15 connected to 2 Sunpower spr e flex solarpanels. It's feeding a bank of 2 x105Ah lead acid batteries. Charger settings are standard for lead acid. Everything worked fine for about 2 years, voltages and current correspond to sun position, strength and cloud conditions.

Now, since 2 weeks charging voltage does not exceed 13v. even with the app showing healthy PV conditions. I have to add that I have disconnected any load, and only 1 of the 105Ah batteries connected, to make the screenshot. I will add the csv from the last 30 days as well. (no I won't, the csv file is not an accpted filetype, other possibilities?)


On the screenshot there is a load drawing some current, switching between 0.1 and 0.3 amps. But... the load output of the MPPT 75/15 is disconnected... Before the low charging voltage problem, the load visible in the app was null as it is supposed to be without connected loads.


What do you think the problem can be? Is it reasonable to assume the readings on the app are absolute and should add up to a correct charging profile, or am I missing something?


Dear answerer, I'm hoping you can help..







mark-volt asked
kevgermany edited ·

13 Answers

ip22 12/30 only delivering 18amp

[image]

I have an ip22 12/30 charging a pair of 100ah battle born lifepo4 batteries. It will charge for a couple minutes at 30amp but then drops to 18.2ish amps and stays there till absorption. I have tried the lipo preset and I have tried custom with the absorption voltage at 14.4 (per Battleborn) and turning off battery safe. I have tried it with and without my built-in RV converter adding 10amp of its own. What else am I missing that is causing it to drop down to 18amp from 30?

matthew-goward asked
sandmac commented ·

2 Answers

VE.Smart Orion-Tr Smart networking

Any update on VE.Smart networking for the Orion Smart Tr DC to DC chargers? I'll have an MPPT and two 30A DC to DC chargers and it would be excellent if they all knew each other on the same battery bank.


[moderator's note: edited to show "VE.Smart Networking" rather than "VE.Bus Networking"]

d-winterburn asked
kiltym commented ·

22 Answers

Mixing New Battery with One Year Old Lead-Carbon Battery

I have a four battery Narada serial battery string giving 24V, which is 11 months old.
I want to add four more batteries to the string to make it a 48V setup.
Someone told me you should not mix old batteries with new ones.
(But, how do you define an "old" battery ? Does one or two cycles make it "old" ?)
I don't want to sell the existing batteries and buy 8 new ones, I only want to buy 4 more.
Does anyone have any advice for me ?


However, my existing batteries are still fairly new, and have only undergone, I guess about this history of discharge:
200 days at 15% DoD
50 days at 30% DoD
50 days at 50% DoD
30 days at 75% DoD
My feeling is that my existing batteries are quite close in condition to new batteries, and so adding another 4 new ones will not disturb them all too much.

ALSO, if I equalise the "old" batteries before I add the new ones, will that help ?

geoffrey-rathbun asked
JohnC answered ·

3 Answers

Charging battery from an alternate non-connected phase to the Victron Multiplus II

Hi

My setup is as follows

3 phase (L1, L2 and L3) electrical supply

Victron Multiplus II 5KVA connected to L1

MPPT 250/100

4 x Pylon Tech 3500Kwh Batteries

18 Panels 355 Watts

At times the connected phase on L1 fails resulting in the battery running flat on cloudy days.

Is it possible to use either L2 or L3 as an alternate source for charging the batteries should L1 fail ?

My initial thinking is an additional regulator and a failover relay to switch the charging circuit on the victron from L1 to either L2 or L3... but open to more informed suggestions.

Thanks in advance

Theo

theo-za asked
Mike Dorsett answered ·

1 Answer

Quattro Compatibility with REVOV Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery

I currently have x15 Quattro48/10000 set up in a 3-phase configuration (5 units each phase). I am looking to retire the existing FLA battery bank and replace it with Lithium Iron Phosphate Batteries.

The supplier I have been in contact with is REVOV who claims that their batteries will work with Victron Quattros as they have other installations running a similar setup.

Does anyone have any insight or experience with REVOV batteries and if they work with the Quattro devices? I have attached the information on the REVOV batteries for reference.

Thank you.


1life REVOV_LiFeC8_Product_Specs_Oct2020_v9 (1).pdf

carver asked
shaneyake answered ·

4 Answers

Smart Charge Controller placement

Hi, I'd like to make a small off-grid system with a SLA battery and smart charge controller. Is it safe to place the Smart Controller in the same box as a SLA battery? I read that SLA batteries can still release some gases and want to ensure my small setup is safe. Can the smart charge controllers cause any sparks?

Many thanks!

ccraven asked
bautista89 edited ·

3 Answers

Multiplus II charger voltage inaccurate

I just installed a MP2 in my RV. The charger is set up according to the setting recommended by the battery manufacture: Absorption 14.4V and Float of 13.8. Most of the time the MP shows appropriate DC voltage in this range but only produces around 13.1 to 13.5 V verified by a multi meter. This low voltage allows the battery to discharge even while plugged into shore power. If I change a setting by even .01 V on the MP, it quickly displaces it current produced voltage and then jumps back up the appropriate charge voltage and charges the battery. This however only stays this way for a short time and then the voltage being produced drops back down in the 13.2-13.5 range while the display still shows a voltage in the 13.9-14.2 range. I have updated the firmware, but that did not seem to make a difference. Both picture were taken at the same time. Any suggestions?

[image]

[image]

pilotchuckles asked
pilotchuckles commented ·

3 Answers

Can I Use 80V PV to charge 12V battery?

I have 2 solar panels with 36V and 330W each. Both were connected to give about 80Voc powering dc pump. Since most off the time these PV are not in use, I want to tap and charge my 12V battery via charge controller. Now my question is it safe to use the PV with 80V to charge 12V battery? If possible, which charge controller should I use?

basshir asked
basshir commented ·

3 Answers

Replacing RV charger/converter with a Victron charger

I am thinking about replacing the charger/converter in my RV. It has a WFCO WF-8955LiS and I want to replace it with the Victron Blue Smart IP22 12-Volt 30 Amp charger. My thinking being I want to configure very specific custom charging profiles for my LiFePo4 batteries, 90% SOC before taking off for a trip, 50% SOC for storage and the existing WFCO charger is does not have configurable profiles.

The charger/converter in an RV not only charges the batteries but also acts as a power supply for all of the onboard 12v appliances when the RV is plugged into shore power. I have no doubts that the Blue Smart IP22 30 Amp charger will charge my LiFePo4 batteries to my desired profiles but would it also be able to power the 12v appliances at the same time while charging my batteries? and continue to power my 12v appliances once my batteries are charged? I know this Victron charger has a power supply function but I would have it in charging mode as the first priority is charging the LiFePo4 batteries.

Will this work? Is there a better solution I'm not thinking of?


Some additional notes:

  • I dont need an inverter so I was not considering the Miltiplus
  • The 12v appliances include: (They turn on and off as needed.)
    • LED lights - 1A
    • Fridge - 7A
    • Furnace - 7A

robwolff3 asked
kevgermany commented ·

2 Answers

Sources combined exceeding max charge current - solutions?

Hi,
I am putting together the electrics for a camper van. I currently have the following items:

- Multiplus 12/1200/50
- SmartSolar 100/30 with a 350 Wp solar panel
- BMV-712
- SOK 206 Ah Lithium Battery (Max charge current 50A, max discharge 100A)

I have two points that I need some help figuring out:

(1) I realized that the max theoretical charging current (shore power + full solar) would be 80A, exceeding the battery's charge current of 50A. Would this be a problem? I found that a Cerbo device can be used to limit the charge current to the battery. I feel like this a relatively advanced device for my simple system (and it adds to the costs as well). Would it be highly recommended to get one, or are there other options?

(2) I would also like to be able to charge via the (smart) alternator. Initially I thought I could use a cyrix-ct, but with the 120A rating this would not work with my battery, correct? (Even disregarding the fact that solar charging wile driving would even add more current). I am trying to figure out a solution that could charge my batteries without killing them, and prioritizes solar over alternator. I came across the Orion DC-DC charger, but because it does not connect with a Cerbo device I would not be able to prioritize solar, correct? Any other methods?

Thanks!

0xana asked
kevgermany edited ·

6 Answers

Lithium in low temp possible to derate charging current, I have an idea.

I recently installed 28kw of lithium batteries in a bus conversion and we'll hit colder temperatures in central MN USA.

It is my understanding that it's no so much that lithium can not be absolutely charged below freezing but that it must be derated or compensated below 45f or so. This is because the negative ions stack up and can damage the cells of charged too quickly.

I have an idea... what if we set a temp compensation value intended for lead acid batteries was reversed? Example, I think a traditional value would be -36mV/C, but what if that value was reversed to be +36mV/C or higher. Wouldn't this invert the voltage compensation curve to produce a higher voltage as it got warmer and a lower voltage as it gets colder?

I'm just looking for a way to gradually derate the charge curve instead of a hard off or on switch. I'm also aware of a super secret "Low temperature charge current" setting HEX-Protocol in VE Direct. Would be nice to see that exposed behind a password or something.

neoneddy asked
neoneddy commented ·

2 Answers

Easy Sola Not inverting

I changed my charge settings on my 16a charge / shoreline connection, for my new lithium system, everything was fine, and the charger out in a about 60amp charge alongside orion ant about 30amps and a few amps of sola.
all was good, batteries very happy at about 98% soc. charge sources disconnect to avoid possibility of over charge, all fine, later when turned on inverter, but wouldn’t activate. Breaker on output appears blown or at least wont switch back on.

I might add, the system is composed of 2x 200ah victron smart lithium battery, in parallel in to a lynx distributor, lynx bms, and another distributor (which easy solar is connected to, as is a 30mp orion, and a battery protect for 12dv loads)

It was fairly hot when charging, but not dangerously so and there were no warnings from colour control or bms in app. (All notifications turned on)

Changed main fuse inside easy sola, no change.
perhaps need to replace breaker? But concerned it will happen again.

Please help!

will-bunce asked
will-bunce answered ·

9 Answers

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