3 phase

Hey Community !

i will update my single Phase Setup to a three Phase Setup in a few days. My "old" MP II is a PMP482505000 which worked for nearly 2 years without a problem. The 2 new units are slightly different to the old one (PMP482505010).

Are these 2 units able to build a 3 Phase Setup ? If yes: are there any limitations to be expected ?

Thanks a lot !

Jens

Dear Community,

We are having trouble with our virtual switch "Ignore AC Option" in our 3 phase system. We just recognized a text dipslaying "not in phase" as it can be seen on the attached image regarding de VEConfigure Monitor. Any idea what does this mean?

Thank you.

Carlos

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Hi

I have a single MPII 3kVA installed in a 3phase system for basic ups hold up. I have attached it to L2 but it thinks it is connected to L1. Is there a way to tell it that it is connected to L2?

I have a Venus CCGX too.

Thanks in advance.

I've just completed a 3 phase installation using Multis. Everything worked well except how to power in event of a grid outage. We have a fairly reliable grid here in the Australian country but it does go out from time to time.

The setup runs on its own energy 95% of the time. So put these things together it wont be often that the grid is out and we dont have our own power.

The 3phase multis need 3 phase input to charge. 3 phase generators are significantly more expensive than 1 phase. But I just noticed that 5kW VFDs (1P to 3P) are quite cheap.

Can I use one of these? ie a VFD on the output of a genset?

Hello,

After many 1 phase systems installed with Multi, Quattro, MPPT, Fronius, ESS , Lithum LG Resu (3.3; 6.5 & 10kWh) and running all fine (check YonneSolaire on VRM), I want to install a 3 phase systems with GX, ESS, 3 MultiGrid 3000, 9kWp Solar with Fronius Symo 8K on 3 AC OUT and a 10kWh lithium battery on a single DC line.

I just read on your Battery compatibility list that it is not possible to use LG Resu with 3 phase system, right ? What is the reason ?

Checking some other battery (BYD & Pylontech I can buy) in your list I see that the 3 phase is clearly presented on a table with some battery and nothing is told about 3 phase for some others batteries... So my question is : Do you have a list of battery I can use for ESS 3 phase system ? Or can you recommend BYD & PYLONTECH ?

Thanks a lot

Hi Victron team,

An installer/customer of DPA Solar is designing a 3 phase off grid system (possibly 3 x Quattro 8kVa) and has asked me if a single phase generator can be connected to AC IN on the master? I've read through the tutorial on VE SystemConfigurator and see that a similar example (3 phase gen with single phase shore power) requires 4 Multis.

Do we need 4 Quattros if the customer wants to keep his single phase gen? Or do we tell him to purchase a 3 phase gen?

Thanks

David

Hello!

I am planning a three-phase installation with Three Multiplus II 5kVA with a SMA Tripower 8kW on AC out. The system will run in ESS with backup functionality.

When taking the three-phase Victron training I found this statement, which was new to me:

"A three-phase system can not aid in phase balancing during charging. Each unit will always equally charge the battery"

This really worries me regarding backup or off-grid use. Could this prevent AC PV from being useful for charging the batteries, or even working at all? I assume that three phase PV inverters will try to deliver equal power to all phases, but what happens if one phase (e.g. L1) is heavily loaded and the others are not?

I would have assumed this scenario as an example:

• L1:Fully loaded, PV supplies 2 kW to load. Cannot charge battery.
• L2:No load, PV supplies 2kW to battery
• L3:No load, PV supplies 2kW to battery

But with the equal charge current rule it seems like the follwoing example is instead the case, where PV power cannot charge the battery during phase load imbalance:

• L1:Fully loaded, no power left to charge the battery
• L2:Cannot receive PV charge since L1 cannot charge
• L3:Cannot receive PV charge since L1 cannot charge

This would seem reasonable enough, but what worries me in this example is that it also seems to mean that the SMA inverter is then expected to deliver power to three very differently loaded phases. I am not certain that it has the specifications to handle that.

It seems to me that to make the backup/off-grid use case viable, either the PV inverter or the three phase Multiplus system will need to do some phase balancing!

Am I right? How does this work in real life? Is it possible at all?

i installed 3x MP2 3000VA /48V. Updated Firmware to 2629474. made ve quick config, setted all settings. made the ess assistant in each MP. Now i try everything but the whole system acts like phase compensation is disabled although it is enabled. each inverter does only deliver so much power as required on the specific phase according to the grid meter. No idea why the compensation setting in the venus gx is not working. Please help!!

AC L1,L2,L3 is connected to MPNr.1-ACIN, MPNr2-ACIN, MPNr3-ACIN. The system is useless. If the electric car is plugged in on one phase with 7kW it only delivers max. 2.4kW from one inverter, if no other loads are switched on. If someone cooks on L2, i only get 2.4kW from the inverter on Nr.2.

I read all installation manuals, the training video on the Victron professional side, there is no hint what is wrong, looks like a software bug on the Venus gx!

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1. 3 phase system with 6 3kVA Multiplus in off grid config. To maximise solar consumption I have set up assistants (general relay plus either programmable relay or gen start / stop will do this) to transfer to AC IN once the battery discharges to a certain level. This is set only on the master on L1 and will use the chargers on all the Multis. Works well.

2. But when inverting again an overload can occur on L3 due heavy loading. I dont have time to rebalance phases just at the moment so was hoping to emulate the assistants above to solve this too. But it does not work.

If Ioad the logic on L1 Master.. it does not affect L3 (unlike the voltage sense/ charging assitant in 1. I tried either the programmable relay or gen start/stop relay on the L3 master , plus the general relay assistant, but nothing happens.

Note the PV assistant is in place on all masters.. and is the last assistant.

Is it possible to get L3 to transfer to AC on overload condition during inverting?

I had no problem setting this up on a single phase system to test.. so my assistant logic works.. it just does not in a 3 phase set up.

Dear Victron,

in May i have seen your blog entry presenting an future Victron Wallbox, i was super happy as i would assume that it would make my life way easier in regard to dynamic/smart EV charging as part of an offgrid 3 phase island system.

As the car is now available i have to decide whether i wait for the finished Victron product (which hopefully offers dynamic/smart charging) or go with an DIY solution including extensive programming (what I wane avoid).

Maybe I am lucky and you are already in a state to spread some more infos to the community!?

Regards

Janek

I am fighting with a new install.

Venus GX, 16pcs pylontech, hub, venus, 3x multiplus-II, grid connected
Due to distance to the farm entry where i have the ET340, i use external control and Modbus/TCP to control the system.

The system worked for some days, but strangely the FI in the pumphouse (quite far away) started tripping in the night with no obvious reason, might be unrelated.

Now the system is in error state, "grid relay fault", it constantly throws the SMA solar system off-grid when it tries something, and shows error codes on the multipluses which are not documented. My installer has no clue and things "some problem down the line" but there are no changes and the system worked for some days without any issues.
Hardware defect in the Multiplusses ?

Problem got worse because the Pylontech batteries where pretty discharged and used the rest of the energy to power themselves (and possibly the Multiplusses ?), so now they are "dead", the can hub from pylontech is "dead" as well as it feeds of the 48V of the battery.

I am lost and currently my installer seems to be clueless also, he thinks it is probably my problem as i use external control (ESS mode 3) ...

here a short video of the error blink codes of 2 multiplus, the third one does the same as the right one.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/n7sc9zvfuv6fh5b/IMG_4812.MOV?dl=0

HELP, please. I have now cut the multiplusses from the grid so that at least the solar production works and is not constantly thrown off.

Johannes

Greetings

I'm looking to use an arrangement of Multiplus with the PowerAssit function to support a transformer with limited power. I have been looking for aplication notes and my system look similar to the Example 5.3 or Example 5.4 of the "Achiving the impossible" whitepaper. My main concerns are the following:

1) The systems in the examples are all single phased. For 3 phase systems the document says "Phoenix Multis and Phoenix inverters can also be configured for 3 phase operation. We will be pleased to make a proposal for a 3 phase system." I don't know if that means that they are working on new application notes or a custom solution requirement is to be submited. Are there any examples, application notes or other type of guide on 3 phase systems with the PowerAssist functionality? Is there a maximum grid power or amps to work with the PowerAssist functionality?

2) There is a PowerMan 230/80/2 module, but it doesn't appear on the product on the website. Is this a discontinued product? if so, what power controllers have replaced this product?

3) Can a 5000 and a 3000 Multiplus connected in series to get 8kW of power or does it only function with identical models?

I would greatly appreciate any help.

Best

Apologies in advance if this question has been answered somewhere else.

Please see attached diagram.

I have a customer that wants to operate CNC engineering equipment from a stand-alone supply. My question is regarding the equipment loading on the Quattro's. The CNC Mill has only a 3ph 3 wire connection to an onboard 400V to 200V transformer which also only has a 3 wire output. Assumption is a delta-delta connection as drawn.

I'm at saturation level with 3ph AC theory and understand what happens at the load end of the unbalanced 3 wire load but I can't find anything that explains how a single inverter in a 3ph config handle returning unbalanced current from the other two lines.

My questions:

Will this work?

If not, what would be needed to make it work?

Is this kind of connection supported by Victron at all?

Any thoughts and recommendations greatly appreciated.

ML.

Hello,

I couldn't find the answer to my question in the forum, so I'd like to ask it here:

I'm talking about an ESS Scenario where I can use Phase 1 as a Backup if the grid fails. (One Multiplus-II between Grid and Phase-1 Loads).

I have a Fronius Symo 5.0 and a Multiplus-II 3000. So I'd like to install 1 phase of my fronius PV on AC-OUT just in case the Grid fails. But as far as I have understood I cannot do that because the PV Inverter delivers 5KW and the Multiplus-II can only handle 3 KW.

But what I do not understand is the following: How does the PV Inverter split the energy delivered from the PV Modules on the 3 phases? And what's the maximum load that's deliverd on one phase? Let's say phase 1 is on AC OUT of the Multi, phase 2 and 3 are on AC In side. So in case of a grid failure: would the PV Inverter put the entire power on phase 1?

So let's say I add a 2nd Multiplus-II. Then Factor 1.0 rule would be OK. Phase 1 and 2 of the PV Inverter would be on AC OUT, Phase 3 on AC IN side. How would the power be deliverd from the PV Inverter in case of a grid failure? Would it deliver all power on Phase 1 and 2?

thanks,

Florian

Hi,

I have the following:

3x Multiplus 3000/24/70

1x Skylla 50A Charger

6 x 12V 50AH AGM battery

I'm planning on using this to create a 3 phase system by turning the batteries into 3 banks of 24V.

Apparently this equipment was used to create the same system before but I'm a little confused how to hook this all up (I assume the configuration should be ok although I would need to figure the phase rotation). I presume I'm hooking the 2 batteries in each ban in series and then they connect to the battery connections of the inverters and then I know I need to daisy chain the invertors with Cat5 cables but do I need an external switch or will they only start outputting if the panel switches are all on? Finally, I assume I take the lives of each inverter for the relevant phases but what about the neutral? is it best to feed these into a bus bar and tap my neutral from there?

Also, how does the charger figure in this setup (charger being fed by 220V AC from the grid No solar stuff involved.

Can I connect MultiPlus Compact 12/1600/70 ant two MultiPlus 12/1600/70 to 3 phase grid?

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i am planning a solarsystem whit 3x VE MultiPlus-II 48/3000/35-32 ( se more in picture) for a 3-phase system.

I have made a simple wiring diagram over how i´m planning to set it up, am i thinking right?

- I want a 3-phase, for example the heating system needs 3-phase to work.

- UPS-funktion of the whole household

- i want to use as much solar energy i can for myself, more optimised for winter then summer.

- not designing the system to be optimised to sell as much power i can. not selling at ALL right now.

- want to use ESS, have lead-acid batties right now, planning to upgrade to lithium a.s.a.p.

- yes a electrician will connect it all.

I was just hoping a "victron-guru" could take a look and see if i´m totaly off or just maybe close to actually thinking right :-)

// Jocke

Dear all

Can I expand an existing 3phase Quattro system with 3 quattros 48/10000 and 1 battery bank with an extra single quattro 48/10000 for an extra single phase load connected to the same battery bank.

Thanks for the feedback

Jo

Hi Expert Community,

I have a site planning a 3 Phase Fronius but wanting to ESS optimise and Backup on ONE Phase only using a MultiPlus II.

Question 1: Can I use a 3 phase Victron Energy Meter (ET340) on the Grid Supply to control the Single Phase MultiPlus (obviously Via a GX device) ???

Question 2: How will the DATA of the Fronius be displayed and logged on the GX and VRM?

The customer wants all the data to be visible and accurate on the VRM Portal (of course!) but I am not sure how the Load will be calculated across the three phases - especially the backup/ESS phase.

Hello,

My recently installed system has a colour control which reports (contradictory) ve.bus battery state information from the Mutli's and a 3ph PV inverter in off grid configuration. With All output MCCB switched off, there is a constant +-100W (2A) draw indicated in the battery symbol in addition to the L1-L3 standby load. This discrepency is also not included in VRM portal output.

Going into winter this unplanned loss will significantly affect the battery SoC. Is this indeed an undocumented standby consumption within 3ph configuration of the Victron inverters, or is the in built BMV reporting incorrect info?

SoC at dawn reads: <60%

Lead acid capacity:9.8Kwh

Reported night time load: 2Kwh

Thanks

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Hi,

I'm planning a new solar installation on a new house build and was hoping someone could please help me determine the best way to plan and configure it. I'm aware of the 1 factor rule but I'm not sure how it applies to 3-phase installations - if I plan to install a 3-phase Fronius Symo 15kW inverter, does that mean I could install 3x Victron MultiPlus II 5000VA units connected to each phase?

This is the configuration I thought would work best but I'd really appreciate help on whether this configuration is valid and if anyone has thoughts on this design?

Some questions:

1. Can I use the Fronius smart meter to monitor consumption or would I be better using the Victron smart meter?
2. Given the somewhat disparate use of inverter vendors, is it possible to view and monitor the system using one portal/monitoring system?
3. Is there a bypass on the Victron MultiPlus units in the case where the batteries are charged so there's no 'processing' or loss as the electricity passes from the Fronius Inverter to the home's loads?

Many thanks in advance.

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Hi there,

I am quite new to Victron but have been using SMA Sunny Island. I have heard great things about Victron. I have the below scenario.

The panels will be connected to a 3-phase grid-tied solar -PV inverter to the main-distribution board at the house. To this distribution board we will connect BYD LV batteries using a 3 Phase battery inverter. This inverter will operate in self-consumption mode when grid is available.

When the grid goes off the line, the system will back up all 3 phases till the batteries reach their maximum allowed discharge level.

The system will then start a suitable generator automatically (to be provided by you) and will charge the batteries to a pre-set charge level before turning it off. This cycle will continue till the next day, when the Solar panels starts producing power or until the grid comes back on.

Do i use the Multi-plus 2 or the Quattro to achieve the above solution ?

Many thanks

Jay

Hi everyone,

Right now i'm fully off-grid, using 8kva Fronius and 10kwa Victron.

Potentially, next year, 3 phase grid power might be available. And I have the opportunity to swap my Fronius, for 3 units of 3kva each, but they are Primos, hence single-phase.

I currently have 30 panels installed, and tinking of splitting them into 3 rows, thus having 3 identical 2750w panels with 3 identical 3kw Fronius inverters.

Would it be possible to patch each of them to the 3 phases of the grid?

My Victron and battery set-up would only serve as UPS for one of the phases with critical loads.

Thanks!

Hi,

in order to integrate a new CHP machine/generator (2kw on the electrical side) i need a 3 phase on that side to charge BYD lvl batteries - for that i would like to deploy a small 3 phase 'sub-grid' just with the CHP generator connected on the AC side based on 3 x MultiPlus 48/800. On the 'consumer' side i thought about a single phase Quattro 48/10000 box. In addition a few MPPTs charging the batteries from the PV side. That raised the question if a a venus system (i.e. Cerbo) can manage all of that in a consistent way ?

best regards,

Martin

Hi,

going forward building a 3-phase microgrid (island) configuration, i looked at the specs of the (still available) MultiPlus 48/5000/70 and the new MultiPlus II 48/5000/70. This shows only a 10% difference in max. power (10 vs 9 kW). Looking inside, the MultiPlus II has a higher integration but a single and smaller transformer indicating less support for high peak currents. Are the other differences not documented leading one or the other better suited for a microgrid config ?

best regards,

Martin

If anyone may know, in the VE Bus configurator software for 3phase Multi systems, is it necessary to select, as well as 3ph via the 3phase button on the software, 3 AC inputs? To reflect the three phases L1, L2, L3 coming in? It is a bit unclear...in the help file...

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Is it possible to set up a 3p configuration, where only one of the Quattros/Multis has GRID (because the grid is 1p)?

Ideally within an ESS system.

Hi all,

I have a 3 phase system using 3 x MultiPlus II.
I had loss of mains on one phase due to maintenance on the grid.

The hybrid system didn’t kick in. I had to turn off mains on three phases to simulate loss of mains for the hybrid system to work

Is there a setting to allow the system to run the back up loads when only one phase losers mains.

Hello,

In the PV Inverter Assistant it says 'Each phase must have the same solar power installed'

So what happens if it is not balanced? If the 1:1 rule is adhered to on each phase will it be ok?

Thanks.

Have a possible system to install

Client had a single phase AC grid supply

Is currently having to use a 3 phase generator for his 3 phase equipment means

Wanting to install a 3 phase Quattro set up With 3 phase fronuis SYMO to make make a micro grid

I know we can use the 3 phase generator for supplement the charging that the solar is falling short of

my question is can the single phase grid supply usable for supplementary charging with the 3 phase Quattro setup

Answering the question my self I would say no

Tho I think it may be usable if a single to 3 phase converter is used ???

anyone have any thoughts on this ?

regards