3 phase

For last couple of months my system ( 3 x 5 KVA Quattors in 3 phase with BYD 10 KWH) randomly resets ( all the quartos go offline and come back on)

#10 Alarm system time sync error, #1 device switched off commonly seen.

Initially, I Suspected network cabling so replaced with CAT 7 high-quality cables and cleaned the network sockets with contact cleaning fluid

Also, checked if all DC connections are tight ( they are )

There seems to be no pattern to these switch offs ( observed at 2 am in the night and also during afternoon or evenings ) -

The system works fine for a couple of weeks and in one day I could face one or more restarts with associated error logs

All firmwares are the latest except Quatro which are on V430 ( latest is 464 i believe)

Quetsions

1- Is there a detailed log somewhere indicating which unit is causing the shutdown

2. Should I upgrade quattro firmsware to rule out any other issues

3. Is this the issue of any external EMF affecting the network cabling ( they run parallel to the power cables - not in my opinion as CAT 7 are each pair individually shielded )

https://www.pcgamer.com/what-are-the-differences-between-cat5-cat6-and-cat7-ethernet-cables/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO/IEC_11801#CAT7

Class F channel and Category 7 cable are backward compatible with Class D/Category 5e and Class E/Category 6. Class F features even stricter specifications for crosstalk and system noise than Class E. To achieve this, shielding was added for individual wire pairs and the cable as a whole. Unshielded cables rely on the quality of the twists to protect from EMI. This involves a tight twist and carefully controlled design. Cables with individual shielding per pair such as category 7 rely mostly on the shield and therefore have pairs with longer twists.

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Hi all

I need some advice on the following design.

A 3 phase system with a Quattro plus DC coupled PV and battery on one phase. Then added is two PV inverters on the other 2 phases. The PV inverters aren't fully compatible with Victron so Energy Meters will be needed to read data to the gx device.

My question is on Meters, do I need a three phase meter in the main supply and an additional 3 phase meter on the PV inverters. Or can I use a 3 phase meter on the PV inverters and a single phase meter on the Quattro phase.

My goal is to see all the PV and consumption data of both the PV inverters and Quattro on the gx device for all three phases.

Hi

I have a 3 phase of grid system with a 3 phase generator as backup. The system has 3x5000 multiplus, 1x 70/150 mppt, 920ah gel battery bank, color gx and bvm. We need more power and I was wondering what is the best way forward

The new solar array will have to be placed around 80m away from the current system. At this point I have the option to either run DC power back to the system and install more mppts in parallel or I can tie in to the mini grid here.

My question what will be the best option? I have a couple of options.

1) Do I dig a trench and send 150 V DC power back to the system and intall 2 or 3 more mppts

2) If I install a 3 phase grid tie inverter 80m away from the system do I need to communicate with it? Do I need to install CTs that needs to communicate with the PV inverter? Do I need to install other communication between the system and the PV inverter? What inverter do I install? Make and max size

3) Do I use 3 single phase PV inverters in the same setup above? 3x5kva?

4) Do I install a 3 phase PV (or three single phase) inverter with the system and run high voltage DC from the solar array to the system?

Will the system integrate with the generator without damage to the generator, loads inverters?

Any help would be appreciated

Thanks

Wilhelm

Hello,

I am new to Victron Community and have done 6 Victron solar installations - all single phase.

I now have a 3 phase, 380V with 3 MultiPlus II's solar installation coming up and need to prepare myself properly. I have done extensive internet searches for training or "how to" video's in this regard, and found just 1 video and then the Victron Parallel & Three Phase VE.Bus Systems manual.

Don't know if my search term is incorrect, since there are many ways to write "3 phase", eg 3-phase, 3 phase, three phase, 3PH.

I would appreciate it if anyone can point me in the right direction, where I can find such videos.

Thank you very much!

Anita

A perfectly working 3 Phase Quattro ( 5 KVA) system has started switching off suddenly on following errors

Ve Bus error 3 - Not all, or more than, the expected devices were found in the system

and

VE Bus error 25 - Firmware incompatibility

Indications

On Phase, A/L1 only float LED flashing ( could not find the meaning in Victron Toolkit )

On Phase B/L2 and C/L3 LED matching to Ve bus error 3 ( absorption and inverter on LED flashing)

A switch off and switch on of all the three units seems to resolve the error for a few hours

Is it possibel that the error is generated when only L1 phase is not available from Grid ? but the Ziehl islanding should also detect that error

Following checked

A. Any changes ?- System is operation since last year - no changes in hardware and only Smart solar /venus firmware upgrades

B firmware

All smart solar ( 2 no.) are on V 1.42

All three quattro's are on V430 ( device 2657)

Venus is on 2.33

C. Ve bus cabling - seems to be firm and no issues detected - changed the sockets just to be sure on Phase A/L1

D. AC and DC cabling - no fault detected on a visual inspection and AC/DC voltage checks ok on all terminals

Video - https://youtu.be/lFF-Fo6UvG4

Picture

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I need modification existing boat circuit (without replace charger).

I need next:

if voltage from generator is low - MultiPlus switch to inverter mode

I must can switch off all MultiPlus from computer (connected to Venus GX)

My Fronius Symo 15 has 18kw of solar panels installed. Multi plus 48/5000/70 x 3 in 3 phase config. Even though Fronius has 15kw available, the multiplus always ramps Fronius down considerably & doesn't ramp up to meet house demand but instead takes it out of the charge so the charge is reduced. Why isn't Fronius ramping up?

I'm planning to build three vans with the same system on each.

The system on each van will be:

- 24v Battery

- Multiplus / Quattro 24/3000

- And maybe, an mppt, a BMV and a Venus GX

My question is, there is a way so I could connect and reconfigure the settings of the systems to work together so 3 multis on single phase o 3 multis in three phase?

My big concern is about monitoring the batteries.

If I use the battery monitor on each multiplus they can run each one on its battery or they have to run both with the same battery and use a BMV?

There is a way so each multiplus is working with its battery but connected with the other multiplus? Each multiplus can take care of its own battery?

I asume that this is not possible with a Venus and three BMV or three Venus connected together, sharing data, no?

Thanks

Hello, we have a 3 phase system with Quattro 48/10000.
We have program the inverters with virtual switch, dedicated ignore AC input.

The load parameters set to each inverter are: do not ignore AC input when the loads are higher than 7000W for 5 seconds.
This parameter works only for L1. When the loads are higher than 7000W on L2 or L3 the system does not switch to AC input.

Please advise as soon as possible!

Kind regards.

Based in Colorado, I'm building a Euro style 3 phase off grid setup with three 15kVA Quattros--non-mobile with a hard wired heavy AC generator. To protect all downstream wiring against AC "residual current" (also called earth leakage or ground fault), I normally would make only one connection between the AC neutral & the grounded metallic housings--through a GFI ground fault interrupting gizmo.

If the GFI sees no voltage between neutral & protective earth, that's what we want & the gizmo does nothing. If a voltage potential should develop between N & PE, the GFI will trip at a small amperage while also opening the contacts on at least one more breaker pole. I've not found any RCCB "residual current circuit breaker" burly enough to actually break the three power phases on the output side of the inverter stack, so what if a simpler RCD merely interrupts a light gauge wire that is connected to terminal H on one Quattro?

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When one Quattro shuts down the other two should follow...managed by logic control wires instead of brute force switching.

(1) Other posts mention that all Victron inverters have the Neutral bonded to the metal case--which would nullify the GFI plan described above. Can the N<>PE bond on the Quattros be disconnected when I build the system?

(2) If the engine generator is running when the Quattros are switched off by an RCD fault...does generator AC still flow through the transfer relays & to the AC OUT terminals? (I would prefer if generator AC cannot make it thru when the Quattro stack is in an RCD fault shutdown.)

Thanks in advance, Community Folks~

Hi there!

I am planning an ESS three phase system, and would like to know if it is possible to place three phase loads between the meter (ET340 in this case) and the 3 Multiplus II (one per each phase).

The order of the components would be as follows (from mains to loads):

AC 3 phase Mains (+ Utility meter + mains protections). 230V between phases (127 V between phase and neutral)

|

ET340

|

-------> 3 phase motor (elevator)

|

Autotransformer (230V/400V)

|

Multiplus II + Multiplus II + Multiplus II

|

<----------- 3 phase Fronius Symo

|

RCD & ThMg breaker + RCD & ThMg breaker + RCD & ThMg breaker

Loads (mono) + Loads (mono) + Loads (mono)

My main doubt is whether or not is it possible to place a 3 phase load between the ET340 meter and 3 Multiplus II, so normal funcioning of the ESS system does not become affected in terms of metering load and production, as well as orchestrating the overall ESS system.

Thanks !!!

Hi all

Please check if my logic is correct for a 3 phase system. This is just to understand victron systems a bit better.

1. Two Multi's on the first two phases and a Quattro on one phase, the inverters are linked via comms cable to colour control.

2. A single battery bank

3. MPPT's feeding 48V to battery bank and all three inverters. MPPT's linked via comms to colour control

4. AC-in 1 on all three inverters connected to grid. AC-in 2 on the quattro reserved for future genserator input.

5. AC-out 2 (secondary output) on all three act as the grid tied solar, will be off when the grid is off. Will feed three phase power during the day from solar

6. AC-out 1 (main output, no break) connected to a separate circuit carrying essential loads. This output is only wired from the quattro, for single phase backup, but can be wired from all three for 3 phase backup.

What is want to achieve from this system is 3-phase grid tied solar with battery backup on a separate circuit.

TIA

Hello,

I am setting up 3 phase system using victron Quattro 8000 with UPS function.

As per the manual the output voltage of each inverter is 230VAC, however in a 3 phase system the voltage is 380VAC.

I want to confirm the following points:

1- The inverter will adjust the phase to phase voltage to 380VAC by itself?

2- We have 3 phase motor load connected to the 3 phase inverters, when the power cut off, I am worried that the generated voltage by the inverter will have different phase sequence from the grid before interruption and this may cause the motor to run in different direction.

Please let me know if someone can help.

Thanks

Hisham

Hi there,

I am quite new to Victron but have been using SMA Sunny Island. I have heard great things about Victron. I have the below scenario.

The panels will be connected to a 3-phase grid-tied solar -PV inverter to the main-distribution board at the house. To this distribution board we will connect BYD LV batteries using a 3 Phase battery inverter. This inverter will operate in self-consumption mode when grid is available.

When the grid goes off the line, the system will back up all 3 phases till the batteries reach their maximum allowed discharge level.

The system will then start a suitable generator automatically (to be provided by you) and will charge the batteries to a pre-set charge level before turning it off. This cycle will continue till the next day, when the Solar panels starts producing power or until the grid comes back on.

Do i use the Multi-plus 2 or the Quattro to achieve the above solution ?

Many thanks

Jay

Hi there community, busy with a design for a 3 phase ESS installation. I was going to use Fronius or SMA here however no stock for awhile to come. Going to need 12kW of PV so either use an ABB Trio 12kW or use MPPTs. Due to the low loads but 3 phase i have gone with 3 x 5kVA Multiplus 2s to create 3phase. Going to have a 14kWh Pylontech battery bank here which ideally would be used for daily consumption and if there is a poor grid supply to then change it to be fully charged for scheduled power outages.
Also want to make sure there is nothing i am missing. I do have a Color Control.

Thanks all.

We are looking at using nine 15kVA Quattros in a three phase system (3 per phase). With an operational efficiency of around 95% and 12kW rating, that gives 600W heat generated per Quattro. That is 5.4 kW of heat from the system, typically located in a small area such as a shipping container or switchroom. That is a lot of heat in a small space. Does anyone have suggested mounting layouts and ventilation for multi Quattro systems? Perhaps a case study?

We need to provide the customer with 100kW of power, so cannot afford derating below 11kW.

Hi Victron team,

An installer/customer of DPA Solar is designing a 3 phase off grid system (possibly 3 x Quattro 8kVa) and has asked me if a single phase generator can be connected to AC IN on the master? I've read through the tutorial on VE SystemConfigurator and see that a similar example (3 phase gen with single phase shore power) requires 4 Multis.

Do we need 4 Quattros if the customer wants to keep his single phase gen? Or do we tell him to purchase a 3 phase gen?

Thanks

David

Done my instelation myself. Need some pointers and help with VE configuring of the Quad inverters for 3 phase. Have 3 phase grid supply want to run my setup as a backup if the grid fails.

Any help would be thankful

I want to use 3x quatro 24/ 5000 in 3 phase.

The generator is 27KW 3 phase

The grid is 64A single phase

Can i connect the grid to each unit to use all the chargers? (With 3 x 1 phase output)

(3 phase loads only to be used on generator)

Or is it still possible to get 3phase out the system with only the 1 phase input like some frequentie inverters do?

See drawing

Hi,

I'm trying to find information on the 3 phase amperage output of the Quattro 24/5000. In single phase, single unit operation it will output 4000w at 230v = 17.3amps.

In 3 phase operation 3 will push out 12,000w (12kw). Is this 12,000/230vac or 12,000/400vac?

Is the circuit protection and cable rating for the wiring from the 3 unit cluster going to be 52amp (230vac) or 30amp (400vac)?

Any help is really appreciated.

Hallo,

I have changed my one phase system to three phase system with three multiplus2, 3kva version. Using one battery, CCGX. My problem is the grig is connected but does not want to go thru. Acting like a off grid system. Any help? See pictures of my settings. Ess assistant is in each multiplus.

Thank you for help.

Update: Do I need a current sensor installed to each Multiplus 2 to connect the mains instead of being in inverting mode?

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Reading the manual for Multiplus 2 and the appendix for three phase connection, it seems that it describes a 3-phase 400V grid (L1, L2, L3, N and PE). In a 3-phase 230V grid (L1, L2, L3, PE), what am I doing with N? And do I still need three Multiplus 2 to feed back to grid in 3-phase?

Good day Victron Team.

I would like to know how can I set up a system so that I can use the batteries when utility tariffs are high. When low tarrifs the system must then bypass.

Is there a way to do this?

Regards

We studied the manuals and spoke to our in country distributors in South Africa and we are getting conflicting messages and need to get to the bottom of this.

We in the process of implementing 2 x Quattro 48/15000 in parallel per phase i.e. 6 in total. Reading the manual it states that if the AC voltage on AC-in-1 or AC-in-2 is switched through, but the load demands more current than the mains can supply, the inverter will be switched on to supply additional current.

Which refers to the PowerAssist where the Quattro can together with a maximum input current of 100A + 65A from the inverter give us 165A (15kVA model) or in our case parallel connected Victrons, we will get 330 Amps per phase (2 x 100a AC Input + 2 x 65A Inverter).

What we can't get a definite answer on, is if this is just for a "rush-in" situation or can it be for a longer period, as we do have sometimes on this site more than a 200A requirement for periods of one hour.

The one solution is we can purchase another 3 Victrons, one per phase but for the short periods it will be in use it is not worth it.

Looking forward to your response.

Dear all,

I have noticed that in this type of installations, together with the meter ET340, the value shown in the Color Control of the consumption is not real. When the Fronius inverter is producing, the consumption value is higher than the real one. When the inverter is turned off, the displayed consumption value on Color Control decreases and approaches the real value. The inverter is connected to the input of the three Multiplus II 48/3000 and the connection of the grid is in AC IN.

Real consumption:

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Same consumption that before:

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Is it possible to avoid this error using the EM24 meter?

Thanks in advance.

Hi,

I'm looking into adding a microgrid to my house (3-Phase Wye) and considering using 3 Quattros but the manual says "Note: the Quattro is not suitable for 3-phase delta (Δ) configuration.".

Although the house is wired as 3-phase Wye I have a Daikin 3-phase AC installed and it's motor is Wye-Start-Delta-Run so my question is will the 3 Quattros in 3-Phase mode support this load or not? The AC's external wiring is Wye 3+N and the conversion to delta is done inside the unit.

Thanks for the help

I have 2 phoenix multiplus 24/3000/70 connected together. I have a 12kva, 3 phase generator. I am using only one of the phases into the master phoenix but I would like to use 2 phases. 1 phase to each multiplus. I would like to have both AC outputs going to the same fuse board(consumer unit). My question is this ok or do I need to add any other hardware

Setup for backup power to essential loads on site. 3No. Quattro 5k units - 3 phase config.

Rolls 4v tubular lead acid batteries. 48v system. Approx 5 yrs old.

Some sort of "event" has caused the system to activate (client not home).

Low battery shut-down threshold was set quite low (37.2) and on attending site found batteries at 44v, so i suspect the system hasnt hit the low cutoff voltage. (restart voltage 43.6)

Managed to force a charge from the one good Quattro (Slave on L2 reconfigured to standalone config) and raised the batts up to 53v

2 Quattros remained utterly unresponsive (master on L1 phase and slave on L3). Confirmed AC and DC good. Attempted complete plugs out power down and power up. Nothing.

MK2 USB wont see the units.

Attempted to factory default using the DIP switches etc.

Nothing.

Hi Victron team,

Hi community,

I operate three MultiPlus II 48V 3000/35-35. One per phase with activated ESS in Germany.

I have the problem that per Multi on one phase never more than 1600 to 1800 watts are delivered.

According to the data sheet, this is the power to which the Multi is adjusted when the temperature exceeds 65 degrees.

I can't not explain the power limit. The ambient temperature is just under 20 degrees and I don't think that the electronics in quasi standby already reaches 65 degrees.

The behaviour is generally given even if the multis did not have to deliver a higher power output for several hours before and the battery has long been charged.

Is it possible to determine the cause of the limitation?

Parameters that are transferred to the VRM or can be called up via MQTT / D-BUS / Modbus? I have not found a way to query the temperatures of the individual multis directly.

The battery (a BYD B-Box) is not the cause according to CCGX.

In the case of simultaneous power consumption over different phases/multis, the battery is discharged and does not limit the power.

The battery parameter of the B-BOX for maximum discharge power is 105A.

The maximum output 1600 - 1800 watts per Multi correspond to 32A depending on the battery voltage (between 51V and 52V), which corresponds to the power limitation on the AC side.

Load on 2 phases:

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Alarm Status Multis:

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Battery parameter B-Box:

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Alarm Status Multis:

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Multis status:

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During the test of a mains disconnection and the behaviour of the multis (main switch to mains OFF and change-over switch to AC OUT of the multis) I noticed that the multis deliver more than 1800 watts. Without mains and without ESS I had the impression that the limitation didn't work.

Thank you.

Greetings from the black forest,

Martin

What is the difference between Single phase ESS in a three-phase system and Three-phase ESS?