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3 phase

3 Phase Quattro Overload Issue

I currently have a x15 Quattro48/10000 set up in a 3-phase configuration (5 units each phase). The system is off-grid and boosted by a 175 kW generator each evening for a few hours. Recently one Quattro on Phase 3 has been overloading during generator operation.


I have been able to temporarily remedy the problem by lowering the input current limit to 95A down from 110A. However, that 110A is what it has run at for the past 5 months without issue.

Previously the system has overloaded at generator startup/when the Victrons first accept the power, however these recent overloads have occurred hours into generator operation.

What could have the caused this Quattro to suddenly not be able to handle the incoming current?


Thank you

carver asked
Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) commented ·

0 Answers

3 phase DC breakers link bar

I am currently expanding my RE system with a third multi II inverter to 3 phase from the current 2 phase in parallel. (mulltiplus II 5000/48/70-50) I have purchased some Airpax 150A DC breakers and just wondered if I need to link them all together so if one trips, they all trip. I don't have any 3 phase motors running just 3 separate circuits on the AC side to spread the loads which get quite high when we run air con,etc..

Any help much appreciated

rithym1964 asked
rithym1964 edited ·

2 Answers

firmware compatibility three phase system MultiGrid-II and MultiPlus-II

according the manual "VE.bus firmware version explained", it should be no problem, to match

https://www.victronenergy.nl/upload/documents/manual-VE.Bus-firmware-versions-explained-EN.pdf

2x MultiPlus-II: (software 2629481)

1x MultiGrid-II: (software 2625481)


together to a three phase system.

I use the latest VE-configuration tools, but it is not possible to do this.

An error messages in VE-Bus Quick configure tells:

Only Multis of same kind and with same firmware version are allowed!

Procedure will be restarted

Switch all devices off and press OK

What is the probleme?


Best regards


Roland

roland1 asked

0 Answers

3 phase ESS only 1 phase working (solved)

I've done a 3x Multiplus II 5000 set up in a 3 phase configuration and noticed that when the system is set to TOTAL OF ALL PHASES in Multiphase Regulation it will balance the phases to near 0w as far possible by feeding into the grid on L1 the same as it would pull on L2 and L3. But this is not ideal if the grid meter is prepaid as the meter would charge you units for what u are pushing back. If I set it to INDIVIDUAL PHASE it only seems to feed PV into L1 and L2 and L3 dont get any PV benefit. The system consists of: 3x Multiplus II 5000, 2x Smartsolar 150/85, 14kwh Li-ion, and 8.9kwp Solar PV. What am I doing wrong or might it be better to set the 3 inverters up as a parallel system on L1 and put all my heavy loads on L1 if the system is not capable of supplying all 3 phases individually?

[image]

Andrew asked
Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) commented ·

3 Answers

What happens if most loads are single phase on 3 phase system

Hello,

I am installing a 3-phase system to a property, where the existing loads are single phase. The only reason its being wired as 3-phase is to future proof for a high speed charger, and because an existing 3 phase supply is already in place from the grid.

I have read in detail the documentation provided by Victron on 3 Phase ESS, with the respective examples, but its not clear enough in my view, sorry Victron.

https://www.victronenergy.com/media/pg/Energy_Storage_System/en/phase-compensation---further-information.html#UUID-72f5b2fc-0d74-563a-b2d6-848f1e8fd046

Does anyone know of any other material where the examples are better set out with text ?

I want to ensure even though most of the loads are on L1, the 3 phase AC inverter, and the 3 x Multi's on the DC side, will not waste the excess energy.

Thank you


next-day-solar asked
gnagflow commented ·

0 Answers

Setting up 3 phase/2 parallel system - fixed

Hi,

I am trying to set up 3 phase/2 parallel system based on 6 MP-II.

How to set the master and slave in each phase?

[image]

marekp asked
marekp edited ·

1 Answer

ESS System Phase Compensation Help

i installed 3x MP2 3000VA /48V. Updated Firmware to 2629474. made ve quick config, setted all settings. made the ess assistant in each MP. Now i try everything but the whole system acts like phase compensation is disabled although it is enabled. each inverter does only deliver so much power as required on the specific phase according to the grid meter. No idea why the compensation setting in the venus gx is not working. Please help!!

AC L1,L2,L3 is connected to MPNr.1-ACIN, MPNr2-ACIN, MPNr3-ACIN. The system is useless. If the electric car is plugged in on one phase with 7kW it only delivers max. 2.4kW from one inverter, if no other loads are switched on. If someone cooks on L2, i only get 2.4kW from the inverter on Nr.2.

I read all installation manuals, the training video on the Victron professional side, there is no hint what is wrong, looks like a software bug on the Venus gx!

[image]


[image]


gnagflow asked
gnagflow commented ·

7 Answers

ESS phase compensation not working

This issue as been discussed before, but still it is a problem - and a very serious problem


I have a grid-tie 3-phase multiplus 3000/48-32 setup with ESS

In VenusOS I have set grid point to 500W (cut everything above 500W) and I have set "Multiphase regulation" to "Total of all phases"

I now expect the battery system to keep a maximum of 500W imported power.

This is not happening.

When I turn the own on, the total on that phase exceeds the power the victron can give at the moment.
The inverter on L2 is doing what it can, but it cannot compensate for the full load, and 500W is beeing bought from the grid.
The other two inverters are not helping L2 to zero the feed in. They are just zeroring their own phase.

AC-loads
L1 627 W
L2 3179 W
L3 130 W

Grid
L1 164 W
L2 683 W
L3 105 W

Solar about 40 W per phase

Total from grid: 952 W

Expected is 500W

Expected:
When L2 has reached its maximum, L1 or L3 should produce mote power, and even sell power to keep the grid point at 500W

There is no differance in behaviour between "Total of all phases" and "Individual phases" The result is exactly the same. There is no change what so ever.

Expected behaviour is: If grid point is set to 500W, This should be obeyed at all times, even if two phases are selling and one is buying, as long at the total is equal to the grid-set point.

This is a MAJOR bug. This makes the ESS useless out of a zero-feed-in scenario.

Most electricity companies where I live have "Total of all phases" as their means of billing.

Expected:
"Total of all phases" = make total to grid-point even if it makes other phases sell or use more power that the individual phase requires

Attached pictures show the system with a "grid set point of 500W and "total of all phases""
Yet it is still importing 452W more that expected, even thought L1 and L3 are hardly doing anything (especially L3)

[image]

[image]

magpern asked
gnagflow commented ·

5 Answers

Why don't 3phase ESS systems support phase compensation functionality for heavy unsymmetrical loads like electric vehicle charging?

Dear Guy Steart at Victron Expert Community,

I can show you 15 very unsatisfied customers within this forum who all have the same problem.

They are very disappointed about the fact that their investment in 3 phase system is not able to make phase compensation and so their investment is not satisfying their needs.

Loading electric vehicles will not be supported by Victron. Is this your strategy and can you tell us that you dont want to support solutions with ESS+EV's or is it just an unwanted failure and this important change request did never pop up at your programming experts and product managers?

Please look at the threads that are unanswered:

https://community.victronenergy.com/questions/55480/ess-system-doesnt-react-not-balanced-to-high-ac-lo.html

https://community.victronenergy.com/questions/53345/phase-compensation-is-not-working-in-3-phase-ess-g.html




gnagflow asked
daryl edited ·

4 Answers

3-phase Multiplus II system, am i thinking right?

[image]

Hello!

i am planning a solarsystem whit 3x VE MultiPlus-II 48/3000/35-32 ( se more in picture) for a 3-phase system.

I have made a simple wiring diagram over how i´m planning to set it up, am i thinking right?

- I want a 3-phase, for example the heating system needs 3-phase to work.

- UPS-funktion of the whole household

- i want to use as much solar energy i can for myself, more optimised for winter then summer.

- not designing the system to be optimised to sell as much power i can. not selling at ALL right now.

- want to use ESS, have lead-acid batties right now, planning to upgrade to lithium a.s.a.p.

- yes a electrician will connect it all.

I was just hoping a "victron-guru" could take a look and see if i´m totaly off or just maybe close to actually thinking right :-)

// Jocke

jocke-h asked
aleksandar-malenic answered ·

4 Answers

Can a WEG Frequency drive create disturbing harmonics for a 3-Fase Quattro configuration?

For an 3 fase offgrid system with 3 Quattros - will be feeding 2 motors that are controlled by two WEG frequency drives (CFW500)

Is there any risk of that the frequency drives create a bad harmonic that can effect the Quattro inverter.

If yes, how can this be avoided?

Thank you in advance for your thoughts/solutions.


aboers asked

0 Answers

Can multiplus II optimize self consumption of PV AC generated energy in a 3-phase house

Schermafbeelding 2021-01-30 om 12.42.38.png

Wij zijn op zoek om onze zonnepanelen uit te breiden met een batterijsysteem van 20 kWh.
Onze solar installatie heeft 15000 Wp en zal ongeveer 12000 kWh / jaar produceren.
Ons verbruik ligt ongeveer bij 40 kWh per dag verdeeld 50% dagverbruik en 50% nachtverbruik.

We willen volgende functionaliteit :

1. backup en nood systeem in geval het net uitvalt voor een beperkte tijd (max 3à4 uur)
2. een optimalisatie van de eigenproductie voor zelfverbruik en, indien nodig, netvoeding te voorkomen

Kan de Victron Multiplus 48/5000/70-50 ons hierbij helpen en kan de victron in bijgevoegd schema ook aan zelfverbruik optimalisatie doen om het productieoverschot van onze zonneenergie overdag te consumeren s’avonds en s’nachts?

Wordt er rekening gehouden met battery-life voor de winterperiode waar we onvoldoende zelfproductie hebben om de batterij volledig te kunnen opladen? Wat doet de victron in dat geval?




frankvdn asked
bjorn-n commented ·

3 Answers

3x multiplus ve-bus 400V error

I have 3x multiplus 24/3000 connected in a master/slave config with VE-bus. Making 3-phase 400V. Out of 1 phase or 24V battery. Worked fine for years. Now I get error codes when switching from mains to battery: E4, E3, E1. Quite random. And obviously system fails

One (I think slave) unit makes a lot of rattling noise. Or sometimes a somewhat slower tick, tick tick (half a second interval)

Cleaning UTP connections or even replacing them helped me in the past, but not this time.

Is this a dead machine or is this fixable?

And if not fixable, can I replace 1 machine? Are 12-15 years old..

jazz asked
Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) answered ·

1 Answer

3 phase ess with backup generator (4th Multiplus 2)

Hi,



I like to build a 3 phase system with 3 Multiplus 2 an Pylontech batteries

My idea for the generator is:

* use a 4th Multiplus 2 with the 1 phase generator for charging. Does this work? Do I have more power on this phase?

* or can I use a cheap charger without CAN to charge the Pylontech with the generator?



And I have another question:

* is there a cheap way for more amps for the transfer switch (anti islanding)?

Thanks, Markus

max78 asked
kaarthik commented ·

2 Answers

ET340 oder EM24 für Phasenkompensation mit einem Multiplus 48/5000
Hello,

At the moment nobody can tell me exactly what kind of energy meter (ET340 or EM24) I should use for phase compensation.

I have a Multiplus 48/5000 in island mode. The ESS would like to use the phase compensation and the connection to the public grid.

As far as I know, the ET340 is newer and measures all 3 phases individually. But there should be problems with this. In many forums the suggestion is made that one should switch to the EM24.

What's the right way now?

I would appreciate an expert statement.

Best regards

Thomas


Thomas Heins asked
Thomas Heins answered ·

3 Answers

Power to drive a planer/moulder

Wood-Mizer makes an MP260 planer/moulder that requires 230V 3-phase power -- it typically draws between 20 and 32Amps.

I understand I can configure a 3-phase system with three parallel inverter/chargers, but which?

I have a MultiPlus 24/3000/70-50 120V VE.Bus. Can that be used to produce a 230V system or do I need to get three 220-240V units?

I'm off-grid, solar and generator, so a Multiplus should be sufficient?

Thank you for your help!

Cheers,
Kailash

kailash asked
kailash answered ·

2 Answers

Combine 2 3-phase quattro hybrid generators

I have a 30kW Hybrid unit including DC generator, 48V Li batteries, 3 x 10kVA Quattros in 3phase. The inverters are in inverter mode only and do not charge the batteries, the generator charges the batteries, controlled by a PLC. The inverter configured to cut off at low voltage setpoint.

I'd like to combine two of these units to serve a max of 60 kVA load , 3 phase.

Can I AC couple these systems ? Connecting inverter 1 of each unit to phase 1, etc. so I'd have 2 inverters on each phase, 20 kVA per phase?

Is this possible ? How would it be configured software ?


I realise normally two DC batteries can not be used if not on same DC bus, but does it matter if the inverter never charges the batteries ?

energylad asked
alan commented ·

2 Answers

#10 Alarm system time sync error , #1 device switched off random reboots

For last couple of months my system ( 3 x 5 KVA Quattors in 3 phase with BYD 10 KWH) randomly resets ( all the quartos go offline and come back on)

#10 Alarm system time sync error, #1 device switched off commonly seen.

Initially, I Suspected network cabling so replaced with CAT 7 high-quality cables and cleaned the network sockets with contact cleaning fluid

Also, checked if all DC connections are tight ( they are )

There seems to be no pattern to these switch offs ( observed at 2 am in the night and also during afternoon or evenings ) -

The system works fine for a couple of weeks and in one day I could face one or more restarts with associated error logs

All firmwares are the latest except Quatro which are on V430 ( latest is 464 i believe)

Quetsions


1- Is there a detailed log somewhere indicating which unit is causing the shutdown

2. Should I upgrade quattro firmsware to rule out any other issues

3. Is this the issue of any external EMF affecting the network cabling ( they run parallel to the power cables - not in my opinion as CAT 7 are each pair individually shielded )

https://www.pcgamer.com/what-are-the-differences-between-cat5-cat6-and-cat7-ethernet-cables/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO/IEC_11801#CAT7


Class F channel and Category 7 cable are backward compatible with Class D/Category 5e and Class E/Category 6. Class F features even stricter specifications for crosstalk and system noise than Class E. To achieve this, shielding was added for individual wire pairs and the cable as a whole. Unshielded cables rely on the quality of the twists to protect from EMI. This involves a tight twist and carefully controlled design. Cables with individual shielding per pair such as category 7 rely mostly on the shield and therefore have pairs with longer twists.




[image]

[image]



Anil Ghatikar asked
dafyddhirst answered ·

4 Answers

VictronConnect App doesn't show 3 Phase Multiplus II?

Hi,

I do have a Fronius Symo 8.2 with my PV grid tied. Also grid parallel there is a 3 Phase Multiplus II setup with 900Ah 48V Lithium and a Cerbo plus Smart Meter.

I did the system setup with MKII Interface. Remote Control shows everything properly and everything runs fine.


When I use the Victron Connect App I see the Cerbo but when I click on device list, no multiplus is shown. Therefore I cannot adapt any parameter oder do a firmware update.

Is this due to the fact that I run it in 3 Phase ESS mode....?

Any ideas?

thx

charly

charly144 asked
charly144 edited ·

2 Answers

Victron OEM Wallbox - Status & features

Dear Victron,

in May i have seen your blog entry presenting an future Victron Wallbox, i was super happy as i would assume that it would make my life way easier in regard to dynamic/smart EV charging as part of an offgrid 3 phase island system.

As the car is now available i have to decide whether i wait for the finished Victron product (which hopefully offers dynamic/smart charging) or go with an DIY solution including extensive programming (what I wane avoid).


Maybe I am lucky and you are already in a state to spread some more infos to the community!?



Regards

Janek

Janek Plathe asked
n-dee edited ·

5 Answers

Existing multiplus parallel setup needs to accomodate 3phase load

Hi! o/

I presently have 2 x 48V 3000 VA Multiplus VICTRON PMP483021010 in parallel connected to a LiPo Freedom Won 20/14 LifeP04 KWh battery working great in an offgrid config (+ victron solar gear charging + genset).

Soon I will need to add two three phase devices as load 400 V AC (+-15%) / 3 ~ max actual 32,6A. In addition I need to accommodate the current maximums allowed by my current setup (<=6000W peak, ~4400W sustained on single phase max ambient temp 40C in summer). The three phase loads will never be used at the same time as the max output of a single phase. This is for a small workshop, it's either or, never both. The three phase loads are large compressor + plasma CNC.

Below are the options I think I have. They are in order of preference by cost:

  • Option 1: add additional Multiplus in parallel allowing sustained ~6600w on a single phase + appropriately sized Variable Frequency Device (VFD) devicre to connect the 3 phase load.
  • Option 2: All Multiplus identical: phase 1: 2 x multiplus, phase 2: 1 x multiplus, phase 3: 1 x multiplus - will this work?
  • Option 3: 3 phase: each phase as single Multiplus 48/3000/50 + additional separate single phase circuit with Multiplus 48/5000/70.

Are any of these options non viable? Are there better options? Ideally option 2 would be 3 phase solution with a single phase using the Multiplus 48/5000/70 + the other 2 phases using my existing Multiplus 48/3000/50s - but I am told should never happen and Bad Things(tm) will happen - and so is excluded for that reason.

Thanks!

Nanzikambe







nanzikambe asked
Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) answered ·

1 Answer

3-Phase MultiPlus II ESS System with an additional MultiPlus II for battery charging

Dear Victron Fellows,

I have the following use case for two almost identical installations:

On the already existing 3-Phase ESS installation using MultiPlus II Devices, the battery should be charged in case of a grid failure and in time of insufficient PV power.

The installation already has the following devices:

  • 3-Phase ESS installation using 3 MultiPlus II 48/3000 operating in parallel to the public grid (230V)
  • 3-Phase Fronius AC PV converter connected at the critical loads AC Output of the Multis and controlled by frequency shifting (MG50)
  • CCGX
  • BYD B-Box 10.0 connected by VE.CAN to the CCGX
  • MPPT Solar Charger connected by VE.direct to the CCGX

A single phase 5kVA 230V Diesel inverter is available. It should be used to provide the power for the charger.

Is it possible to charge the battery using an additional MultiPlus II connected to the CCGX?

Can the Multi be connected to the CCGX and does it receive the relevant battery information BYD BMS information (DVCC)?

According to the following question it should be possible. And that is what I would expect and I think is the reason of DVCC.

Asking my dealer to verify the answer he told me that it is not be possible to connect the additional Multi to the existing CCGX, because the additional multi would need its own controller and needs to operate independent from the ESS system.

He suggested to connect the Multi by the relays (LINK). This would not be an preferred option for me because I would expect the charging process to be more optimal if it is controlled by the batteries BMS.

If the additional Multi can not be connected to the CCGX, would it be possible to add another Venus device and connect the CAN Bus to this device for retrieving the BMS information?

Best regards,

Martin

martin-m asked
martin-m commented ·

3 Answers

Ungrounded Neutral in 3-phase System

Hello,


I understand from the manuals that Multiplus 3-phase networks must be Wye/Star, not delta. However, I should be able to run 3-phase delta loads from the legs of the star, since the line-line voltage would still be 400V. Such a concept is drawn below.

[image]

My question is, what to do with the neutrals? They much be connected for the Multis to reference each other, and they are grounded by the ground relay. As drawn, there is nowhere to place an RCD or ground fault interrupter.


What is the best way to power a 400V_LL, three-wire, three-phase load.


brmurray asked
Johannes Boonstra (Victron Energy Staff) answered ·

1 Answer

ESS selectivity and circuit breakers

Hi All,

today I had a short circuit in the Critical Loads section on my ESS. All circuit breakers in between grid and the short circuit switched off. Whereas I was expecting that only the circuit breaker of the circuit itself should be switched off.

now I’m searching for some design rules to better design selectivity in case of ESS.

The connection to the grid is made by 25A fuses (3 phase). So to maintain selectivity I have a 3P-16A circuit breaker between the switch board and the Multi’s. I estimated that adding an ESS creates its own energy system but now I realize that under normal circumstances the relais between grid input and Critical Load output is closed. Following the NEN1010 selectivity rules I then have to use 10A circuit breakers to individual circuits. But that means I have to swap my complete household switch board because it now contains 16A circuit breakers which is quite normal in Holland. And it also leaves me in a non preferred situation since 10A is far to low for some off the systems I’m using (dishwasher, etc.).

I have systems on the non-critical side of ESS like EV, heat pump and so on. They have there own 16A circuit breakers.

Perhaps someone can help me with some suggestions to create a save and reliable system? Or is what I described the way to go (using selectivity and see the multi as a intermediate device).

kind regards,

Harold

hetslimmehuis asked
seb71 commented ·

1 Answer

Configure 3-phase ESS without MK3-usb

Is it possible to setuo a 3-phase ESS without a MK3-USB cable?

If yes how? Remote VeConfigure does not have this..

magpern asked
Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) answered ·

1 Answer

3 phase system and single phase MP

Is a 3 phase system with 3 phase AC input and single phase AC Input possible?


I have a 3 phase system with 3 Multiplus II and i want add additionally a single Phase Mulitplus to load the Battery.

The Battery is a BYD LVL 15.4 kw with BYD BMS


skyfall asked
markus answered ·

1 Answer

L3 overload with practically no load.

Hello,

I have 3-phase system build on EasySolar-II GX (phase L1), 2x Multiplus-II (phase L2 and L3)

There is no ESS assistant loaded only Two-signai BMS.

First time this system reported overload on phase L3 twice.

It happened when there was grid loss for less than a minute.

System is under development and there is practically no load (50-60W)

Why this overload happen?

[image]

[image]

marekp asked
marekp answered ·

3 Answers

Why aren't my Quattro 48/15000 switching when there is an AC source at the ACin 1 in input, in the 3-phase configuration?

I have 3 Quattro 48/15000 configured in a 3-phase system.

When ACin is connected, the system doesn't switch and stays in inverter mode. Through VEConfig 3 / CCGX, here are the parameters read.

[image]

[image]

[image]

[image]

Why is Current = 0 A?

In stand-alone mode, each unit switches properly.

ACin parameters

Frequency = 50 Hz

Voltage = 230 V

[image]

Koul Alim asked
Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) answered ·

3 Answers

3 x Quattro's in 3 phase with single phase shore connection

I've got 3 x 10 kVA Quattros set up for a 3 phase AC load.

The primary generating source is a 48 V DC Hybrid Generator and lithium battery system connected to the Quattros at 48V DC.

There is a intermittent AC mains resource that I'd like to utilise to charge to batteries or feed the load when available, the AC connection is in single phase. At the moment, the AC-in connection is wired up at 3 phase with 1 phase connected to each of the Quattro AC-in-1 connections.

Can I connect a single phase AC-in even though AC out in 3 phase ?

Should it just be connected to 1 phase only ? i.e. 1 quattro AC-in connection or should I parallel the AC-in across 3 Quattros ?

energylad asked
jwfrary commented ·

1 Answer

Switch as a Group (3ph. system, input 1)

Hi all,

it seems to me the feature "Switch as Group", in the VE.Bus Configurator, is a bit under-documented .

So, please verify, in a three phase system with Quattros in all phases (at input 1), when "Switch as Group" is not checked, does it affect all the Quattros ? ..... meaning that any of the three, and any number of them, can operate as inverter or charger independently?
In that case, one or two units, could operate with the ""Power Assist" feature, while the remaining one (s) can operate as charger.

Thanks.

Nikolas Stathis asked

0 Answers

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