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Display external battery charging as Genset

I have 3 phase Multiplus II 5000 system with gerbo gx and lynx distributor + lynx shunt. PV is generated from MicroInverters. I have grid meter ET340 and also extra ET340 for solar production.

I want to charge my batterys from my car V2L adapter if needed. To display that correctly as genset I could find only one option. To buy one more energy meter ET112 and add that between car V2L and charger 220v input (this 220 line is totaly seaprated from in house 220v wiring). And configure that as Genset meter. Problem is that most of the time this ET112 does not have any 220v connected to it.

Then charger DC output should be connected to lynx distributor otherwise lynx shunt can not show correct soc value.

I could then also use one phase gas generator to load the battery in emergency.


nuxland asked
nuxland edited ·

0 Answers

Which generators are fully compatible?
I want to build a photovoltaic system for my home similar to the following (I will probably use EasySolar II instead of Multiplus II+SmartSolar MPPT+CCGX):

https://www.victronenergy.com/live/_media/battery_compatibility:ds_-_pylontech_-_managed_lithium_battery_-_2021-3-11.jpg?w=800&tok=2a5c8a

Which generators are fully compatible?
Someone has already used the Black & Decker BXGND5300E and / or BXGND6300E?
Someone has already used PRAMAC PMD5000s ?
I want to use the generator only for the time necessary to recharge the battery (2-5 hours) when the public grid is not available and solar energy is insufficient (I could also disconnect all non-essential domestic loads, if necessary to facilitate the operation)
I believe it is important that Victron publish a list of fully compatible generators for this type of application, without delegating the responsibility to local dealers.


francesco-marzulli asked
markus commented ·

5 Answers

RCD Typ B am Ein- und Ausgang des Multiplus nötig?

Ist am Ein- bzw. Ausgang des Multiplus ein RCD Typ B (Allstromsensitiv) nötig? Mindestens Typ A am Ausgang ist klar. Anschluss des MP netzparallel mit wichtigen Verbrauchern am Ausgang.

An einem Wechselrichter ist ja grundsätzlich ein Schutz nötig, falls hier ein nicht sinusförmiger Fehlerstrom auftritt - es liegt dort ja ein Gleichstrom vom PV-Sting bzw. vom Akku an.

Hat der Multiplus II einen entsprechenden Schutz bereits eingebaut oder ist der hier bauartbedingt nicht nötig (evtl. weil die Batteriespannung nur 48V beträgt oder weil ein gewickelter Trafo genutzt wird der kein AC durchlässt?)

Wenn nötig müsste ein RCD Typ B ja am Ein- Und Ausgang angeschlossen werden, da in beide Richtungen eingespeist wird und dort Verbraucher (über einen RCD Typ A) angeschlossen sind.

behl asked
juergenal commented ·

2 Answers

Generators compatible with Fronius grid tied inverters.

We have a Fronius grid tied inverter connected to the output of a Quattro. Fronius grid tied inverters have a shutdown facility which utilises frequency shifting the ac by 1 Hz.


Suppose we have an ESS with a Fronius, Quattro and a generator. If the generator kicks in and the frequency is not exactly 50 Hz, the Quattro will frequency-track it and in doing so inadvertently shut off the Fronius grid-tied inverter.

Do we have to purchase a super-stable generator with exact 50 Hz frequency in order to prevent conflicts between the frequency of the generator and the grid-tied inverter?

Barry Clark asked

0 Answers

Charging by means of sinewave inverter connected to Quattro AC-IN-1 (generator)

We have a vehicle (van) with a 12 V system and 4 kVA Quattro. We wish to supplement the 48 V (Pylontech) battery charge, when driving the vehicle, by charging the battery from the vehicle 12 V supply.

We have tried two different 1 kW 12 V to 230 V sine wave static inverters connected to AC-IN-1 (the generator supply to the Quattro). Despite adjusting the Quattro input current limit to minimum (4 A), shortly after the inverter supply to the Quattro is enabled the 1 kW inverter is destroyed. The output H-bridge at the output of the 1 kW inverter becomes damaged shorting the high-voltage supply in the inverter.

We believe that the Quattro inverter is essentially back-driving the inverter mains output (once the relay clicks in) and the phase alignment is lost as soon as the Quattro draws current from AC-IN-1 and loads up the 1 kW inverter.

Has anyone out there had any good experiences with charging from an inverter connected to the AC-IN-1 connection to the Quattro?

A potentially safer charging option may be utilising a battery-to-battery charger to charge the 48 V battery more directly using 48 Vdc. Unfortunately, Victron does not produce a 12 V-to-48 V B2B charger so we are considering Sterling Power unit. The Sterling B2B does not have a communications bus and is unable to communicate with the CCGX or Quattro. Therefore, we will effectively be charging blindly.

Would this possibly cause a charging conflict or race conditions with the Quattro when the B2B charger is on if the BMS is unaware that there is another charge source connected?

There’s also a mention of having to set the float voltage of secondary chargers slightly higher than the primary master charger in order to provide a clear cut off and resolve charging conflicts between the Quattro and the B2B charger. It is unclear if the B2B has a means of adjustment.


Barry Clark asked
Alexandra commented ·

0 Answers

ESS 3-Phasen Multiplus mit zusätzlichem Multiplus als Ladegerät

Hallo, ich plane ein ESS mit 3 Multiplus II 5000 als 3-Phasen-Sytem. Anlagenschema.pdf

Bei Netzausfall und fehlender Solarleistung soll der Pylontech-Akku über Generator nachgeladen werden können. Wegen des Gridcodes fällt die Möglichkeit der Generatoreinspeisung über Umschalter am AC-IN weg. Deswegen würde ich einen zusätzlichen Multiplus einbauen, der dann durch den Generator gespeist wird und ausschließlich zum Laden genutzt wird.

Im Grunde wäre hier der Einsatz von 3 Quattros im 3-Phasen-System ideal da hier der Generator über den 2. AC-IN eingespeist werden könnte, die Möglichkeit entfällt aber wegen des noch nicht vorhandenen Zertifikats für den NA-Schutz...

Nun ist meine Frage, ob der Cerbo GX den zusätzlichen Multiplus erkennt und ordentlich darstellt?

Oder kann ein GX-Gerät immer nur ein System darstellen, also entweder die 3 Multiplus 5000 ODER das Multiplus 2000?


maworxx asked
andreasbrb commented ·

1 Answer

Quattro II 48v 5kva won't switch Active AC input to genset in AC1

Quattro II 48v 5kva here with European grid connection and old Perkings 12kva diesel genset. I'm trying out features for their feasibility.

Genset has electric start and running signals from its harness, but I'm starting it manually so far as I don't have the harness panel side with its instrumentation. However it gives steady 230V/50Hz in three phases, I'm using only one so far.


I've read quite many Quattro and genset threads and doc pages here. At least the following has been done:

GX:

- genset in AC1 input

- grid in AC2 input

- System setup -> AC input 1 = generator

- System setup -> AC input 2 = grid

- System setup -> Monitor for grid failure = disabled

- Generator start/stop -> Auto start = off

- Generator start/stop -> Settings -> Detect genset at AC input = off

- I/O -> Digital inputs: None has "Generator" as input value.

- Relays -> Relay 1 = Generator start/stop, not used yet.


Quattro:

- General -> Dynamic current limiter = On

- Grid -> LOM (loss of mains) detection -> AC1 input = disabled

- Charger -> Weak AC input = on

- Assistants -> ESS loaded


When the genset starts, multimeter shows good voltage and frequence in AC1 terminals, as well in Quattro's remote console top level's Quattro menu AC-in L1 numbers. But that also shows 0W and 0A current.

With these settings, Quattro detects the genset in AC1 since it drops the grid from AC2 and remote console shows in Active AC input: "Disconnected". When I turn genset off, it changes back to grid in AC2, then Active AC Input says again "AC IN2".

So, Quattro sees getset power in AC1, but doesn't accept it to passthrough nor for charger.

Maybe I should try to feed grid juice into AC1 as "genset power" and see does it accept that or is this a settings problem. Not sure would there be any neutral line issues, would assume that those are galvanically isolated inputs and that doesn't matter.

Both AC1 and AC2 inputs do work, as I just recently moved grid to AC1 as suggested.

Anyway, I'm inclined that this is a settings issue, can anyone give a hint what might cause it and what to try next?

I can't switch off the "UPS Fuction" from Grid -> Transfer switch as it doesn't exist anymore in current versions. Documentation should be versioned and modifyed once these changes are done, some people might still use older versions and need the old docs. Current situation is confusing.


Br,


Juha

Juha Tuomala asked
Juha Tuomala commented ·

2 Answers

Discharge floor generator autostart

When i set my discharge floor on 50%

And the geneator autostart stop on 0%- 100%.

Will the 0% actual be 50% or would i completly discharge my battery bank to 0%?

marc-heide asked
marc-heide answered ·

3 Answers

Multiplus II/Quattro II: State of (co-)generator support in ESS mode?

@mvader (Victron Energy)

@Johannes Boonstra (Victron Energy Staff)

Customers are waiting for months now to have (co-)generator support in Multiplus II/Quattro II ESS mode. Especially with the new geopolitical situation (Russia) customers demand co-generator or backup generator support in stationary/grid tied installations.


What is the current state? When will generator support be available in ESS mode?

renne asked
404 commented ·

6 Answers

Generator AC-IN and PV Inverter on AC-Out (Zero feed protection)

Hi community,

I want to take some safety and be sure that my generator will never get feed-in from the PV inverter, so my flow is like this:

  • if the grid has been lost and batteries go near 20%, I will start the generator (a small gasoline generator, without automation functions)
  • then on CerboGX, change AcSource to Generator (there is no way to change using automation, over Modbus, unfortunately)
  • the change of ac-source-type will trigger an automated workflow that will change a contactor to enable the generator and also change ac-in Amps to what the generator can make (24A) (Modbus /Ac/ActiveIn/CurrentLimit)
  • Multiplus will soak as much energy from the generator as possible from AC-In + PV solar (Fronius) on ac-out
    • while batteries are low, and still in bulk is It safe to run PV solar (Fronius) with the generator on ac-in? is it possible to get feed-in by multi into the generator?
  • The batteries will reach some "end" goal which is 80%, my plan is to disable the PV inverter using `/PvInverter/Disable` Modbus, this will give me an opportunity to PowerAssist OR change the contactor that goes to a generator

As for now, my main concern is safety and not burning generators with feed-in, all other automation of how to get back to the grid could be automated later.

Thanks for the help!

Fedya Skitsko asked
Fedya Skitsko edited ·

2 Answers

how connect genset ATS to quattro II with cerbo gx

Hey need help, Anyone knows how to connect genset deawoo ( https://daewoo-power.com/multicatalog/item/daewoo_ddae_9000dxe-3/) to input 2 in quattro II system ( 3 fase).

Do i need specific 5 pin cable to ATS and connect to cerbo gx for start/ stop comunication ??

mk1 asked
cristimv answered ·

3 Answers

Zwei Multiplus parallel offgrid+ Generator

hallo, wenn ich zwei Multiplus II parallel betreibe (inselbetrieb) und dann den Generator dazuschließen will, an welchen Multi gehört der Generator angeschlossen , am Master oder Slave oder beiden??

0x791 asked
klandos answered ·

1 Answer

Turning Quattro off trips output breaker

Hi!


I am having some issues with a Quattro 48/10000/140-2x100 that i installed about a week ago. It is an older used unit with firmware 143.

It seems to be tripping the output breaker in the fuse cabinet when i turn the unit off for some strange reason.

The general overview of the system is:

- Offgrid system, large cabin high on the mountain

- 30 kVA diesel genset 230 V delta connected, cabin is wired with IT ground (no ground)

- Output of generator goes to water heater (L1-L2), industrial dishwasher (L1-L3) and the input of the Quattro (L2-L3). Each of these is fused with 16 A, 25 A and 32 A fuses respectively.

- The other loads in the system is on a separate busbar with a MTS (manual transfer switch). This MTS is basically two interlocked MCBs each with a 63 A fuse. The input of the MTS goes to the output of the quattro and to the generator. This lets me supply the loads directly of the generator if the Quattro is malfunctioning.

- The loads are fused with either 10 A or 16 A fuses. The loads are things like water heater, freezers, fridges, various electronic equipment and lights.

- The battery solution is a 280 Ah, 16S LiFePo4 pack with a 200 A (350 A for short periods) BMS.

- System is configured to turn on generator when the load exceeds 5 kW for 10 seconds.

- I also have an override that always keep the generator on if necessary (for example when using the dishwasher)

- The system is turned completely off each night


Yesterday when the Quattro was set in the off position, the 63 A MTS breaker on the output of the Quattro tripped. At this time the generator was still running (this was turned off 5 seconds later) and when the Quattro was turned off the battery was in a float state, charged to 100 %.


Does anyone have any idea what could have caused this ? I have had it happen once before, but that was when the Quattro turned itself off due to low DC/high ripple likely caused by a BMS disconnect. The cell protection on the BMS is perhaps set a bit too low (3.55 or 3.6 V I believe) , so 100 % charge (56.2 V) is a bit close to cell overvoltage.


I am no longer on site unfortunately and therefore do not have access to the system, but I do have a GX device setup and VRM. Unfortunately it is powered from the quattro output so i do not have much in the way of logs.

jontm asked

0 Answers

Auto start Generator

I have a victron quattro 48/5000 system. Has anyone used a Honda EU3000IS generator with Auto start if the panels are not enough and the batteries need a charge? Does my inverter offer this option for autostart

ejm asked
jannas commented ·

2 Answers

Multiplus-II on a 50A RV (US - 120/12V) with onboard Onan 5500 Generator

An Onan 5500 generator output is two 120V legs that total ~45A combined but are in single phase. I am finding out this is problematic for Victron products. I was thinking the Multiplus-II was the ticket to cover the entire 50A RV panel when on shore/generator/solar, until I found out that that when the Multiplus-II sees both L1 & L2 from the Onan 5500 in single phase it will shut down L2... and thus only provide the RV with L1/30A of the 45A the generator is capable of. Space is an issue, so trying to stick with a single inverter/charger combo and don't want to hamstring the generator output. Seems the only route I can go is to only power half of the panel (or a sub-panel) through a Multiplus instead of attempting to run everything through a Multiplus-II. Am I correct in this assumption?

brother-bluto asked
corn commented ·

2 Answers

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