ORION charger booster → SuperVolt Pro BMS control vs. SmartShunt

[JB_Sullivan (Sully)]

Good morning everyone. This is going to be a longer post, as I would really like to understand why the Orion regulates things the way it does.

First of all, here is my hardware setup, after I spent quite some time trying to work out where to get the “real” D+ from. The problem with my vehicle is its smart alternator. It appears to deliver “wild” voltages at “its” D+ output, which the ORION could not do anything with. Neither via the high input (D+), nor through the automatic alternator detection based on the voltage present.

At some point I found a “conditioned” D+ on my Nordelectronica EBL, which allowed the ORION to be prompted to charge. But first, here is my hardwire setup.

Although I have installed a SmartShunt, the BMS of the SuperVolt Pro battery connected to the Cerbo via CanBus handles the charging control. Originally, a different battery was planned, but it was not available. So the SmartShunt is actually redundant now. It does not cause any problems, though.

I process all of this data in ioBroker, which has a dedicated adapter for Victron devices. It shines with more than 4,000 possible data points that can be described. I write a large proportion of these DPs` to InfluxDB, where they are then analysed with Grafana. So all of the following diagrams are based on these recorded data points.

Can you tell me whether the recordings look plausible, and whether the whole system would follow a different charging profile—one that is healthier for the LiFePO₄—if the SmartShunt were the “controlling variable” rather than the BMS of the SuperVolt battery? The SuperVolt BMS is somewhat of a “black box” when it comes to its control behaviour.

I could offer another dozen or so data points, but this should perhaps be enough to get started.

Here is now a whole load of trend diagrams. To make them easier to read, I split the combined trends into individual lines.

Many thanks for your support.

[otisbadger84 (Harold Patterson)]

@JB_Sullivan

Good morning everyone. This is going to be a longer post, as I would really like to understand why the Orion regulates things the way it does.

First of all, here is my hardware setup, after I spent quite some time trying to work out where to get the “real” D+ from. The problem with my vehicle is its smart alternator. It appears to deliver “wild” voltages at “its” D+ output, which the ORION could not do anything with. Neither via the high input (D+), nor through the automatic alternator detection based on the voltage present.

At some point I found a “conditioned” D+ on my Nordelectronica EBL, which allowed the ORION to be prompted to charge. But first, here is my hardwire setup.

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Although I have installed a SmartShunt, the BMS of the SuperVolt Pro battery connected to the Cerbo via CanBus handles the charging control. Originally, a different battery was planned, but it was not available. So the SmartShunt is actually redundant now. It does not cause any problems, though.

I process all of this data in ioBroker, which has a dedicated adapter for Victron devices. It shines with more than 4,000 possible data points that can be described. I write a large proportion of these DPs` to InfluxDB, where they are then analysed with Grafana. So all of the following diagrams are based on these recorded data points.

Can you tell me whether the recordings look plausible, and whether the whole system would follow a different charging profile—one that is healthier for the LiFePO₄—if the SmartShunt were the “controlling variable” rather than the BMS of the SuperVolt battery? The SuperVolt BMS is somewhat of a “black box” when it comes to its control behaviour.

I could offer another dozen or so data points, but this should perhaps be enough to get started.

Here is now a whole load of trend diagrams. To make them easier to read, I split the combined trends into individual lines.

Many thanks for your support.

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SmartShunt would mostly make the SOC trace cleaner, while the battery BMS is still the only thing seeing what the cells are doing. The black-box part is annoying, but I wouldn’t expect a totally different LiFePO₄ charge curve from swapping the control source.

[Hannus]

The curves look very odd to me. But I can’t say whether they’re supposed to be like that.

What are your Orion’s default settings? Is motor cut-off detection disabled? Is the input-voltage lockout adjusted, and if so, to what voltage?

[JB_Sullivan (Sully)]

Hello Hannus — engine detection is disabled, as I now get a clean D+ signal from the Nordelektronica EBL (always +12.4 V — so there are no fluctuating values from the smart alternator)

[Hannus]

Hello Sully, I suspect you have too much voltage drop in the wiring between the starter battery and the booster. Also, your 50 A fuse is too small. You should never run a fuse at 100% of its rating. Since it is already close to blowing, it will get very hot and the fuse holder may melt. The alternator connection should also go directly to the starter battery. Measure the voltage drop across the fuse and isolator switch under load. The contacts can sometimes cause problems here.

The input-voltage cut-off is the starter battery’s last line of protection and cannot be disabled.

What is probably happening in your case is this: the booster switches on, its input voltage drops below 12.3 V, and the booster switches off again. That is what is causing your spikes. As a test, try setting the cut-off to 11.8 V / 12.2 V and run your test again. If the control spikes disappear, you can gradually work your way back up towards a higher voltage.