I have an installation with two alternators (catamaran) charging their respective starter battery, and the LIFEPO house battery bank via two orion xs. I have a BMS connected, and a Cerbo Gx supervising the setup. Also in the system a solar charger, and an inverter charger.
When both engine runs, and the LIFEPO is close to 100% Cerbo decreases the alternator charging via the orions, BUT by stoping one of them, and managing up and down the other (one is largely enough for the supply). By decreasing the alternator charge to 0 it generates an alarm on the engine (no charging).
Is it possible to tell Cerbo to regulate the two Orion Xs in a more balanced way, to keep some charge on both alternator avoiding ‘no charge’ alarm?
I will draw a diagram. It is a pretty recent installation ( changed from all acid) and I am still challenging the installing team. I have volvo d2-50 engines. The engine manual says this warning comes when the battery voltage (they never say if it is the starter battery or the house battery) is above 15v, or below 12v (or so). The value is in every condition around 13.45v, so should be ok. In an other manual (possibly lost in translation: Swedish→Chineese→English) they also state, that this might happen if there is no charging. That might mean also that the starter (acid) is full, and the dc/dc is not draining anything, so the alternator electronics might think it is not generating.
This the schematics. The plain lines are power lines, the dashed are the control ones. Naturally there are shunts, switches and fuses all around, but more or less this is the drawing. I will vet-it with the installer, but more or less this is it.
Things I am looking to see:
1: Is the Orion XS after the engine start battery?
2: Do you have any diode like argofet, and which side of this the orion and the various batteries are
3: It is normal for there to be slight differences in the output of the Orion as controlled by the BMS and this should not lead to a no charge alarm on the engine displays.
Also not on the drawing, we are using the engine run/stop input on the orion to stop the lifepo draining the starter battery when the engine is not runing. We did not managed to find any +12 (or ground) on the volvo when runing, so we are using the engine blower + for this purpose.
This is where I saw a diod, but on the control side of the relay switching the blower. Presumably to make sure it is switching only if the generator runs (higher voltage, than the earlier directly connected acid house battery)
The concept looks OK. The lifepo4 is on output side of orion xs and engine battery on input.
If the above is true there is no need to use a diode to stop the lifepo draining the starter battery. That is not possible. They may be using the engine run/stop signal to tell the orion when to start charging or not. I did not bother with that as the internal engine detection (by voltage) is working ok for me. You should check that.
I assume that the dotted line shows the VE.direct cable to the cerbo.
WHat type of lifepo4 battery do you have and what type of BMS?
Has DVCC been configured on the cerbo?
also note that when orionxs is used with a BMS via ve.direct cable then you cannot use ve.smart networking via bluetooth.
normally you should not adjust the orions manually as the DVCC feature of cerbo will tell them to reduce the charging, and turning them on / off can cause them to want to start a new charge cycle of bulk/absorption/float.
Back to the original problem, I understand that the engine dashboard is complaining that the alternator is not charging (engine light on volvo control screen) when an orion is turned off. is that correct?
The diod is not used to stop draining. It is done by the Orion. It was used BEFORE the transition to LIFEPO from acid for starting the blower and enabling the windlass. Generator → Diod →Relay coil / other side switching firx 12 to blower and windlass enable. This is what we use for engine stop/run, as we could not find anything directly for this on the engine. Possibly there is none, as the factory have been using this trick.
Now there is no diod in the generator, starter batt, orion path.
We use 2x Victron 12,8 300Ah NG LIFEPO4 battery for house.
Dotted lines are the control lines, I assume VE.direct, but will check tomorrow on the boat
Will check DVCC
I am never using bluetooth in any way, my cerbo is connected via ethernet to my boat LAN.
Yes: when I start the engines as I want to leave port (all batteries full) after a while the starboard engine charge (seen on Remote Console) decreases rapidly, than goes to 0. While the portside is visibly managed by Cerbo (a bit up, a bit down). After a while the starboard engine starts to complain.
Tomorrow I will do a few tests:
Swapping the ve.direct controls and the engine strat/stop between the orions to see if the complaining engine swaps too?
Also will play a bit with the revs, but as it is a 115A gen, and we are draining max 50A, at idle speed it should deliver all power orion can drain.
I also have the Lithium NG with the Lynx BMS to control them.
The DVCC is the technology for controlling the charging and by forced on, means that the BMS is telling the Cerbo that it MUST use this technology you have no choice. This is a good thing.
When you do your tests can you connect to your Orion XS by the bluetooth app victron connect? When the engine is running and it has some revs more than idle the orion should start to charge and say “external control” meaning that DVCC and the BMS is controling it. You can use this method to monitor the Orion and see any issues too and adjust the charging current if its too much for your alternator.
Even though an alternator is 115Amps, it can only ever make 50% of that. You could try to reduce the input and output of the orion to say 40Amps to leave enough for it to charge the engine battery.
Also, as the alternator heats up its output will reduce, meaning that the charging to the engine and battery may be not enough. If the engine compartment is small or the fins of the fan cooling the alternator is not sufficient then the alternator might heat up quicker.
Generally dont rune the engine at low revs for charging as the alternator will heat up faster due to slow speed of air flow.
