Quattro in off-grid operation but AC input (Grid) is always present as back-up

Hi,


We are to install an off-grid PV system using 15VA Quattro, lithium batteries, and Fronius inverters. The site has grid available, hence we would want to use it as the back power supply.

We would want the AC Grid to be used by system during the following conditions:
1. Battery SoC < 20%, grid back-up to disconnect at SoC > 80%

2. Load > 12KW, grid back-up to disconnect at Load < 10kW


I read that there is an "Ignore AC Input" setting that we could possibly use to program the Quattro. Has anyone done this before?
Or do we need to use the relays and use contactors to connect /disconnect the grid to/from the Quattro?

Thanks in advance.

JimV asked
Vangelis Beligiannis edited ·

2 Answers

Can GX generator start/stop feature control AC in of Quattro?

Hello all,

For a setup on a yacht, I want to control the AC in 2 of the Quattro so that during the sunny hours of the day, the shore power does not charge the Quattro. The result is that during the day only my solar panels charge the batteries.

I enabled in the Venus GX the feature generator start/stop, in such a way that the generator starts at 18.00 and stops at 08.00 hrs. I then set AC in 2 in the GX to generator. I am assuming this then controls relay 1 of the GX and switches it on and off based upon the indicated hours.

I then wired relay 1 of the GX to the auxilary relay of the Quattro.

With VE-configure, I added the following assistant to the Quattro:


[image]

Will this work? Will the AC in 2 be ignored from 08.00 till 18.00 hrs?

jurjenhoekstra asked
jurjenhoekstra commented ·

3 Answers

Muliplus 48,5000,70 v generator

Hi, I have recently had a new multi plus ll-48 5000-70 installed but having issues with generator running charger. I have a generator rated at 5000kw continuous at 20amps max. The issue is the charger keeps dropping out if input amps are set above 7.5amps which only allows about 20 amps into the batteries. I was hoping to get around 50amps into the batteries with that size generator. Is there a setting that could be incorrect?

justo asked
agroventuresperu answered ·

5 Answers

Generator Recommendation for Welding and for Charging 4 Pylontechs via Multiplus 48/5000/70

Please recommend what specs or other relevant info to look for. I live in a remote part of Peru, South America, so I might not have the same products available as in your country I'm building a house pretty far from civilization, and need the generator to weld some steel beams and operate saws, etc. for carpentry and masonry.

Also, I'd like to keep the generator later to charge four Pylontech US3000 48v batteries wired in Parallel, connected to a Victron Mulitplus 48/5000/70 as part of my solar kit.

agroventuresperu asked

0 Answers

Generator Charging with 3phase system quattros

Hello,

im using three phase system with 3 Quattros 48/5000S and everything is quite well.


but charging from generator is quite difficult, the power increases very slowly to 3-6kw and falls down to zero then. This is repeating infinite.


the Generator is 30kva And making a very clean 50hz (electrical governor) and 230/400V i dont checked the sine wave already.
I also tryed weak ac input, but without a effect.

do you have an idea? How to solve the problem

-different frequency 51hz?
-different voltage 235V?

Michael Schmidt asked
Paul B answered ·

1 Answer

Is Relay 1 (for starting a generator) on the Maxi GX potential free?

I would like to start a generator using Relay 1 on the Maxi GX - is the Relay 1, potential free? Sorry probably quite obvious, just want to be sure.

Thanks

james-davy asked
james-davy answered ·

1 Answer

Maximum AC input voltage without damage

Scenario 1: You have an RV with 120/240 split phase shore power. You plug into a 120/240 volt receptacle but the neutral is floating. So what you get between each leg and neutral could be anywhere between 0 and 240 volts.

Scenario 2: You have an RV with 120 volt single phase shore power. Because of a misfire, what you end up with is 240 volts between neutral and hot.

I'd expect the Multi to reject the AC input but will damage to the unit occur?

Kevin Windrem asked
Matthias Lange - DE answered ·

1 Answer

Multiplus ignores AC input when battery is too low

I have two multiplus 24/3000/70-50 and two MPPT 250/60 with 300amps of 24v lithium batteries and a color control . It's a 50amp RV with a each multiplus connected on L1 and L2. I have an issue that only happens when I am connected to shore power and run the batteries too low.

A few times I've overloaded the AC input by running too many appliances including air conditioners and that trips the shore power breaker. This usually happens when I am on 30amp shore power, even if I set the input current limit to 30amp max. Because the system works so well it switches over to my batteries and I sometimes don't notice. It eventually drains the batteries and shuts off the system with the low power alarms. Once this happens I can't get the shore power to charge the batteries any more. I reset the breaker so that there is power AC in 1 but the multiplus won't accept the power input. At this point usually the multiplus is off and the switch for "on/off/charger only" won't do anything. I have to use a jumper cable on the terminals of the multiplus to power it back on. Once it is on it still does not accept the AC shore power input to charge the batteries and I have to wait until the solar panels charges them enough that it will allow AC in again. Even with both multiplus on, resetting the switches, and seeing main on, the color control still shows AC input at 0 and state is off. However, the solar input works fine and once the batteries get recharged to a certain level it accepts the AC input again.

I assume that the batteries have to be restored enough for the system to return to normal but why would it accept solar in and not shore power in to charge them? Obviously this creates a problem when it happens at night because I have to wait until the sun comes up in the morning to charge the batteries. Shore power, generator or any input on AC in 1 will not work until the batteries recover.

So two things I'd love to fix. 1. How can I get the multiplus to stay on when I have shore power but batteries are low? Why would I need to jump it? 2. How can I get the multiplus to accept AC input when the batteries are dead? Shouldn't AC input work all the time?

jasonsele asked
jasonsele commented ·

1 Answer

Genset frequency at 53.1Hz. Multi does not turn on

I have a client installation which is a pretty standard 48/5000 Multiplus 2 with ESS.

There is a changeover switch from a genset which is manually operated in the event of a prolonged national grid failure.

For all intents and purposes the Genset is installed as if it is the national grid.

Except, - The Multi does not recognise the Gender and sees the Grid as failed. The genset output is 23x volts and 53.15 Hz at no load

Out National grid code NRS097 stipulates the Multi to disconnect at low Hz 47 and high Hz 52

I suspect that due to the Genset output being 53.15Hz that the Multi recognises this as out of the acceptable parameters.

How can I fix this?

Can I create an identical Grid code but with high Hz cut off being say 54Hz?

Lyndsay Cotton asked
Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) answered ·

2 Answers

No Power Out AC 1

Anybody know why output 1 would cycle off for 1 second about every 5 seconds. No lights showing but inverter light on. No amperage out so its not overloaded. Input voltage is 13.3 and output is 120 at 0 amps. System has worked fine since August of 2019. Traveled yesterday with it off and pulled into camp and this was happening. We did try killing the 12 volt supply power. Didn't help.

carolyn-hannas asked
netrange answered ·

1 Answer

Coupling up a generator to MulitiPlus II

I am wanting to connect a generator onto the Multiplus II. The question I have is whether the generator will (i) charge the batteries or (ii) feed the dedicated selected prioritized circuits only or (iii) try and pick up the entire load usually fed by the utility?


I have a 5 KVA Multiplus II unit , 6 x solar panels controlled via MPPT and 2.4Kw/h li-lon battery. The diesel generator is 5 KVA. (I don't want an auto start generator function but rather a manual start). The Generator is only a back up for extended power outages that the PV and batteries cannot sustain

ianod asked
Lyndsay Cotton commented ·

2 Answers

Multiplus 12 3000 120/70 issue - not displaying a/c input or output

I am not seeing any AC input or output on my GX Touch 50, The multiplus also shows as "OFF" however everything is working as it should. I can power AC loads both on the inverter and as pass through in the multiplus. All other displays work ok on the panel but I can't get any thing on the AC side to show. This is probably an easy fix (I hope) but I don't know where to look.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions!

rlp84070 asked
rlp84070 commented ·

3 Answers

AC Output 2 on EasySolar with AC Ignore set up

Hi, i use an easysolar in my motorhome and i want to use the AC ignore to charge the batterie with the solar panel in priority with the possibility to have the AC out 2 even if the AC in is ignored (enought battery capacity). And of course if the load or state trigger, activate the AC in.


I use the assitants to do this with the informations i've found on the net. This is my settings, are they correct ?

1st

[image]

2nd

[image]


3rd

[image]


Thank you for the help !

lambish asked
lambish commented ·

3 Answers

Kohler 7.5 Quattro Cerbo GX With Load Sensing Gen Start

My genset is controlled "start/stop" by sensing the presence or absence of a load on the line. It also has a two wire start/stop. The two wire will not stop the genset if there's a load present. My question is, will the Quattro AC IN-1 contactor open and close as necessary for my genset when programmed with the gen start/stop features in the Quattro or Cerbo GX or do I need to add a external contactor?

Thank you

burnscraft asked
burnscraft answered ·

1 Answer

Generator Auto Start Feature Request

I have routinely been using the Battery SOC as the trigger to start and stop my generator, and it works great, with one issue. As a long term off grid system that is a hybrid of generator and solar, the system can go several cycles without synchronizing the SOC function of the battery monitor. This has only a minor effect on the generator start function, but it can have a significant effect on exactly when the generator shuts down.

It would be great if there was an option to shut down the generator based on the tail current into the batteries. At a constant absorption voltage, this will result in a more consistent REAL battery SOC at the end of the generator run cycle than relying on the battery monitor which might be out of synchronization.


billknny asked

0 Answers

Induktionskochfeld mit Landstrom und / oder Generatorstrom wie am MultiGrid anschließen?

Auf meinem Boot habe ich einen 7kw Induktionskochfeld verbaut.

Der Betrieb soll folgender Maßen geschehen.

1. über Landanschluß nur zwei Kochstellen, Unterstützung über den Wechselrichter ist nicht gewünscht (möchte die Batterien nicht für das Kochfeld nutzen)

2. Der Landanschluß ist getrennt, über einen 8kw 3Phasen Generator von Fischer Panda möchte ich alle vier Kochfelder betreiben. 2 Phasen für das Induktionskochfeld, die Dritte lädt derweil die Batteriebank 24V/360Ah mit Hilfe eines Skylla TG24/50 und einem Sterling AB24/60.

Die grundsätzliche Umschaltung zwischen Landstrom und Generator geschieht direkt nach dem Trenntrafo über einen automatischen Sterling Umschalter Prio1, Prio2 und Prio3 (nicht genutzt).

Das MultiGrid kann über sein AC2 Ausgang eine Phase trennen, wie mach ich das aber bei Generatorbetrieb mit der 2ten und dritten Phase?

Als Maschinenbauer habe ich leider nur sehr wenig wissen über die Möglichkeiten der Bordelektrik.

Ich würde mich freuen jemanden zu finden, der mir bei dieser und evtl. zwei drei weiteren Fragen weiterhelfen kann.

Mein Boot wurde elektrisch komplett überarbeitet, leider ist mein Schiffselektriker kurz vor Fertigstellung erkrankt und komplett ausgefallen. Die restlichen 10% versuche ich nun alleine bzw. mit einem befreundeten Elektriker zu bewältigen. Dummerweise haben wir Beide, von der vielen Victrontechnik kaum eine Ahnung.

Guido


smilla asked
Ulrich answered ·

1 Answer

Using Cerbo gx to read low fuel

I have a diesel generator which starts when the battery voltage is below a certain level which is triggered by Cerbo gx relay1. I would like to know if I can send any signal for low fuel reading examples under 5% or 20L to be sure the generator doesn't start if the fuel is too low.

lyko2021 asked

0 Answers

Why is Multiplus 1200VA rejecting stable AC in from the grid ?

I have seen other people asking similar questions but with no answer, so I try again here. Just finished installing my Multiplus in my camping car. While on "on" mode, the Multiplus 1200VA works fine as an inverter, it converts 12DC to 220V AC. But when switched to charger only mode, connected to a standard, grounded home plug, it refuses to take the 220v in. I can tell it tries to switch to the grid (I can here a click inside the multi), but immediately switches back to inverter mode. It's like it refuses the AC from the grid. I checked the tension and it is 224v. Any ideas ? Many thanks for your help.

hansfab asked
bruces answered ·

2 Answers

Disable generator ac output priority on Multiplus

Is there a way of preventing ac through put from genset while charging using the Multiplus?

In other Words, still use inverter 230v ac whilst charging with the gen set.

The reason for this is to avoid flickering on the power coming from my Hyundai diesel gen set.


jgy67 asked
JohnC answered ·

1 Answer

What is the minimum Input Current Limit?

What is the minimum input current limit for Quattro?

Setting it on VEconfigure allows me to set it as low as I want. However, the input current limit won't go below 10.5 on the Colour Control.

It needs to be set lower as the customer only has a small generator. How do I do this?

mick-finch asked
jpasop (Victron Energy Staff) commented ·

1 Answer

Setting different SOC depending on AC input available

Hi,

For an installation with a 48V-5kVA quattro and backup generator, I was wondering if it is possible to set a different minimum SOC for the battery depending on the AC input available. For example in case of a grid outage I want to preferentially discharge the battery for critical loads, but if the generator is available I also want to power the second AC output using power from the generator

matthieujacobs13 asked
matthieujacobs13 commented ·

1 Answer

MPPT charge controller and other questions for first time portable solar generator build (wiring diagram included)

Hi! I'm building a portable solar generator for RV dry camping with my family, and need some help sizing the charge controller, and validating my findings so far. Basically, my needs are to be able to run a couple small fans, charge devices, and intermittently plug in small appliances as needed for long weekends and the occasional weeklong trip.

Currently planned major components:

  • 100Ah LiFePO4 battery (one to start, but potentially expand to two if needed)
  • SmartSolar 75/15 MPPT
  • 500-700W inverter
  • 100W Solar panel (Potentially want to expand out to 200-400W in the future)
  • Multi stage trickle charger

Here is my wiring diagram: https://imgur.com/a/MgqJaGU

Questions:

  1. If I start off with only 100W worth of solar (these panels are expensive!), will the 75/15 still charge my battery? Or do certain charge controllers require a minimum solar size to actually charge a battery? I realize I need ~240W to fully charge my 100Ah battery in one day, but I am not going on super long trips to start, and can top off at home with a trickle charger
  2. (See my wiring diagram) - is there any risk in damaging the charge controller by using the trickle charger while the MPPT charge controller is attached? For ease of use, I'd like to be able to leave the battery in place and charge via an SAE port that I'd attach to the same bus bar that the battery / charge controller / inverter are attached to. I wasn't sure if there was any risk of back flow or whatever
  3. Given everything above, does the 75/15 MPPT still sound right, or should I upgrade (100/20) or downgrade (75/10)? It sounds like if I wanted to scale out to a two-battery system, the 100/20 would be better, but given I want to start small, I'm wondering if I should think about replacement when it gets to that point instead of trying to over-future-proof my system

Open to any and all feedback. I was largely inspired by Jim Fisher's setup: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=offgcMwuTGw&t=300s

Thank you!

jtysonwilliams asked
abeness commented ·

2 Answers

System Reboots happen under certain circumstances...

I believe my RV's Victron setup has FIVE major components:

  • MPPT (1)
  • MPPT (2)
  • SmartBMV monitor
  • Color Control GX
  • MultiPlus (the big unit, inverter)
  • In addition, 4 x 100ah Battle Born batteries

In this RV, we also have an Onan 5500 generator (45amps) and when connected to shore power, has always been 50 amps. (We are configured as a 12v system, not 24v, in case that's a question one might ask.)

Frequently, when putting a heavy load on the power consumption (two good examples are the electric/hydraulic slides and extending (sometimes retracting) the hydraulic leveling jacks), the system will reboot. So far, we have only seen this on generator and/or shore power.

Reproducing the scenario is easy: While still plugged into shore power (or have genny on), retract slides or jacks. In addition, the generator will shut off if in use during these reboots. (The Victron system doesn't engage the generator, that's the RV's house "OneControl" system.) I think because the OneControl system is also rebooting, that is what kills the generator. (The Onan's have some weird "pulse" on/off system, and I don't have the gizmo that lets me wire that up to the Victron system.)

I have found that simply unplugging from shore power (or turning off the generator) and running solely on batteries usually prevents the reboots. Bear in mind that there are no A/C's on, no heaters, and minimal power consumption as we are either getting setup in a campground or preparing to leave.

Our sorta-vendor (not original installer, but did some fixes for us) doesn't have any clue why this might be happening. One would think that the 50amp shore power would be more than sufficient to be handle these operations. We do NOT have reboots even when running three air conditioners!

During the last time we experienced this, and I had disabled shore power to run solely on batteries, I watched the BMV while extending the jacks. The voltage did slip down to around 11 volts. The reboot doesn't happen, as I said earlier, when on batteries alone. The system did NOT reboot, however.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I can look for as a potential cause of this issue.

captainpalapa asked
captainpalapa commented ·

0 Answers

Use a Pi? SmartSolar MPPT 150/80 & 12V battery & auto-start generator

Hello,

I have a solar system that I'm planning out. It includes the PV arrays, two SmartSolar MPPT 150/80 controllers, a 12V lithium battery, and a Honda EU3000 generator. I want to be able to set it up so that "the system" auto starts the generator when battery SOC is down to 50%, no PV is being produced, and the temperature is above freezing (so the battery can take a charge).

Is this something that can be done with Victron equipment or do I need to use a Rpi? If the answer is to use an Rpi, how will the Pi get the SOC information about the battery?

Many thanks for helping me with my Noob question!

alaskannoob asked
Paul B answered ·

1 Answer

E-starter Generator linked to Cerbo GX

Hi there,

I'd like to instal a generator that could run automatically when needed on my solar installation (420W panels, mppt 100/30, AGM gel 265Ah, Cerbo GX). My issue: I see only super expensive 4Kwh machines. Does anyone know a reliable brand with a 2Kwh product that could cost less than 4000€?

Many Thanks

denis70 asked
denis70 answered ·

6 Answers

Combined system Solar/generator charging strategy.

System is on a sailboat, off grid. Solar supplies about 50% of daily power needs with the rest supplied by a DC generator.

System Description:

  • Eight g31 Firefly batteries parallel series to 24V, 464 A-hr,
  • Cerbo GX,
  • BMV-702,
  • MPPT Bluesolar 100/50,
  • 125 Amp DC Generator.
  • Total daily consumption ~6kW-hrs

The plan was to use the generator first thing in the AM to bring batteries to ~90% SOC, get the heavy lifting of bulk charging out of the way, then let the solar system top them off.

My understanding is that the battery voltage on "wake up" is how the MPPT estimates battery SOC and uses that to decide how long an absorbtion cycle to run. The issue I am having is that the generator is typically running when the MMPT turns "on" with the sunrise in the morning. Because it is seeing a voltage significantly higher than battery resting voltage, it cuts the absorption cycle short leaving the batteries less full than they should be.

Is there a way to force the absorption cycle longer? Or an alternative generator running strategy that doesn't involve running it at midnight, or during the solar charging day?

Right now my best idea is to reset the solar float voltage to be equal to the absorption voltage. This will work fine when off grid, because the chances of overcharging are very small. It would need to be re-set every time I plugged into shore power. An annoyance, but not impossible.

billknny asked
JohnC commented ·

2 Answers

DC Ripple error on Multi when charging from Fischer Panda Inverter generator

We have been using a Fischer Panda Neo 5000i inverter generator to charge a 600ah lithium battery using a 24/5000/120 Multiplus for two years. (Both the FP and Multi were purchased at same time) All of the sudden two days ago we started getting DC Ripple error (overload + low battery lights) and shutdown. We turned off all AC load and just ran charger but still happened. Then the generator and charger acted as if the current limiter was being dialled down (charge current fluctuated and dropped) until the charger stopped charging alltogether.

All other functions of the Multi work, and the generator works on the AC circuit through the Multi (large AC demand will activate and ramp up the generator) The only thing that does not work is the charger.

???


Charles Buehler asked
Charles Buehler commented ·

1 Answer

Generator Warm Up, Charger walk in

Is there a way to gradually increase or limit charge current on a Multiplus / Cerbo GX to allow Generator to warm up ?

Only presenting FULL charging load when it is warm.

Ideally it would be based on a Cerbo GX temperature input.

Any Help would be much appreciated.

Andrew Jefferies asked
Andrew Jefferies answered ·

1 Answer

RCD Tripping randomly

I have just about installed Multiplus 48/1200/13 and hooked it up to Li-ion 14s1p batteries.

It has been working perfectly in UPS mode and pass through. To test the capacity, I turned off the mains and the UPS kicked in, I let the system run - till the cut off voltage was reached.

When I turned on the grid/mains - the RCD (on the mains consumer unit) tripped. It did this a few times. I disconnected the load and the same happened (rocker switch in ON position). Then I switched it to charger and it did not trip.

I tried various combinations and unfortunately - the RCD tripping is very random and not reproducible.


AC in comes from the grid

AC out goes to feed a total of 250W (a few pumps)

Any input or help would be appreciated.

ispookie666 asked
tedr answered ·

6 Answers

Victron Blue smart 12/20 tripping RCD

Hi what is the 240V current draw for my Blue Smart 12/20 charger as it keeps tripping my RCD i think the RCD switch may be over the peak draw and hence the tripping but cannot find the information on data sheets?

darren-brown asked
wkirby answered ·

1 Answer