question

robertg66 avatar image

LOM causing problem - solution cost € 500 - feel left in the dark by Victron

Hi Victron team,

It turns out, after days of testing, that I have a LOM problem. Given the fact that I have power in the house (40 amps grid connection) and the swimming pool is still on and my Fronius inverter doesn't have this problem nor my neighbors SMA it puzzles me why Victron can't solve this. I know the technical background of the LOM, but it clearly doesn't work all the time. So why do I need to buy a € 500,- Zhiel to fix a problem that Victron has? Given the fact you refer to the LOM problems in the ESS manual, a video explaining more about it and a white paper, it must happen more often than extremely rare like mister Vader is saying in the whitepaper about LOM.

I would expect therefore more information and also a suggestion for a solution that doesn't cost 1/2 a Multiplus-II. Sadly I can't find that information nor any information about how to connect a Mains Monitoring relay. This disappoint me very much. I feel left in the dark while there are main protection relays on the market for € 50,-.

Hopefully there is more information available and is Victron willing to help finding a more affordable solution than a Zhiel? Can you please share at least the information you have?

Other question: the fact it's a new installation and LOM isn't working this means it are faulty products. Am I allowed to send everything back to the dealer and get a full refund? I just want to know if this is an option I have?

Robert

Multiplus-II
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@robertg66

You don''t mention the actual problem you are having? What is the system doing or not doing that is making you unhappy with it?

What Grid code are you using this may have a bearing on the LOM? The other thing I have seen is undersized ac or DC wiring causing issues with LOM.

Thanks for replying to me @Alexandra

The problem I have is that when the 2 MP-II 5 K (build 481) try to go in ESS mode most of the times they don't succeed. If they succeed it starts to Bulk load and resonate. Very rarely they go in ESS mode and never for long (small increase of power use is enough). I get an Overload, reset and back to Inverter mode. Even when I disconnect everything from the AC-Out it doesn't succeed to go in ESS mode. I even tried it with just connecting a 500 watt light to the AC-Out. When I remove ESS I can Bulk load the batteries from the grid with more than 5000 watt's. All besides ESS is working, it's because off ESS I went for the Victrons!

I am using the German gridcode set to Type B. When I remove the Type B (switch LOM off) everything is working okay in ESS mode. I use 6mm2 cable for the AC side (H07RNF cables all the same length) and 70mm2 on the DC sides. Also the same length and the right type.

As mentioned in the documentation and the FAQ in the ESS, when you switch LOM off and all is working you may assume you have a LOM problem :(.

I live in Portugal near the coast, okay we may have a bad grid but nothing special. Bad overhanging lines are common here. As long as you have power there is nothing to complain. Fronius and SMA inverter have no problem. Given the fact many gridlines are like mine I think more will have LOM problem's.

I want to achieve a zero feed in therefore investing in something of at least € 500 for the few watts I will give back to the grid doesn't make sense to me, sorry. If I am right logging in the 481 version has been improved to investigate LOM problems. So lets investigate and fix this.

The fact that I need to spend an extra € 500 for a 1 phase system for something that should work and the lake of information is what makes me feel left in the dark and does not make me very happy.

Robert

my Fronius inverter doesn't have this problem

Your Fronius is working in MicroGrid mode. It is controlled by the Victron system.

I have the Fronius already a year or 2, before the Victron's. Now they are in microgrid but not before ;). The fronius knows exactly when the grid fails. No need for a € 500 costly toy.

Robert

What is this Euro500 toy?

The Zhiel UFR1001E, recommended when LOM is failing because the Victron MP-II doesn't work, will set you back at least € 500. That's what I call this an expensive toy ;).

seb71 avatar image seb71 klim8skeptic ·

If you disable LOM detection from the inverter settings (and the inverter is connected to grid), you should install an anti-islanding device which automatically disconnects the inverter from the grid in case the grid fails. So that when Sparky fixes the broken grid wires on the street he is not electrocuted by your inverter (which is still powered by batteries and/or PV panels).

Hi Seb71,

I know this and I know why you need this. Your are missing the point and forget the reason why I need to disable the LOM. It's not because I like to nor is it because I live in a remote place of this world. No, it's because the Victron product can't do it's job while other products can!

Maybe I have a long line to the transformer, but 1 kilometer is not extreem. Besides the power company gives me all the power I need and it works! I can't call them saying: He, the impendants is wrong you need to replace about 1 kilometer of line. When I have all the power I want and need.

Disconnecting the LOM is needed because the product has issues. In my opinion it shouldn't have been certified in the first place anyway, but hey who am I. Or mention in your sales brochure. 'If you don't live next to a transformer don't buy our products or be willing to buy an extra device for € 500,-'.

I refuse to spend € 500 for a solution because a product doesn't do it's job. That's the issue here Seb ;).

Take care,

Robert


I answered (with some more details) klim8skeptic's question.

8 Answers
jacola avatar image
jacola answered ·

Hi Robert, double that !

I am also in Portugal, with a not-so-good grid connection, but i have a massive victron setup (6 Multiplus-II 5000, approx 50kw batteries Pylontech, Venus and some more stuff).

After long fights with ESS Mode 3 (and finding a bug in the inverters), i am now on ESS Mode 1/2.
Things work PERFECTLY if i disconnect mains and run off my batteries.
I have a high power water pump (7kw, 3 phase) which works absolutely fine with the victron setup in off-grid mode.
BUT dare me, if i connect the setup to the grid i get instabilities, Victron going off-grid for no apparent reason, and also shutting down the SMA solar inverters with frequency shifts often (when going off). The 'going off grid' is sometimes triggered by a load change, but often enough, spontaneously, without obvious reason.
I am a control freak and read out and log everything possible via modbus and visualise on grafana .. the fascinating thing is that victron reports different frequencies for input and output when connected to the grid (transfer relay closed .. how can that be), and sometimes even different frequencies on one phase (to my understanding that MUST be bogus).
Version 481 also here ..
Worst part .. the instabilities result in power cut of the loads of few hundred msecs, which reset all computers and can really destroy equipment ..

My temporary remedy is to charge my batteries in the night, carefully (small charge current to not get fired off grid) and then manually go island in the morning to have a stable system, but that cannot be the solution.
If it were only the Ziehl .. but you will need two power relays too (in my case min 63Ams, 3 Phase), that makes the bill much higher. I hope victron gets the bug fixed in their firmware.

Johannes


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Hi Jonannes,

Thanks for your reply and sharing this with us. What I read frightens me and should frighten Victron (and there dealers). You describe more or less exactly the same problems I am having. Nice to know I am not the only one. By the way, an impressive setup you have! If Victron solves this than I love to know more about what you have done with the modbus.

Bottom-line here is that Victron now has two sites where they can look into this problem. If there are more out there please let me know!

In my case I have a new installation and a faulty product that's within warranty. I am sure Victron is aware of my rights as a European consumer (I hopefully don't have to explain this to them, that would be sad ;).

So, Mister Vader and your team! What will be the next step?

Robert

Hi Robert, i understand MANY people have the issue, and it seems to be 100% a problem in Victron's way to detect loss of mains. Call it a software or conceptual bug.

At least for me, with good weather, i found a very simple solution .. a wifi 63A circuit breaker i can remote control .. in the morning i can use that to go off-grid and in the night i can go back on-grid for charging.
YES, it makes NO sense and it is a workaround but at least not €500 (plus two relays and installation and and and). And my installation is really stable off-grid, regulates the SMA inverters well etc, if i am on grid there is much more instability, grid voltage drops going through the transfer relays etc. Happy to share my grafana setup so you can take a look :)

I hear that MANY installations show that LOM problem, we are not alone, others are probably just frustrated or not knowledgable.

I am working closely with my installer who has other problematic installs .. and he is trying to help by reprogramming the multiplusses so that a control signal could make them ignore the AC input (avoiding the chinese wifi relay in the connection to the power grid).

I would rather want a modbus register where i can instruct the multiplusses (ESS) to ignore mains .. maybe victron chimes in, but i guess i put that better into another topic.

My past issue i had in mode 3 made the install pretty much unusable, but i have to say patience played off. after a couple of months of diligent documentation, hacking the VE.Bus interface and logging there as well, countless (hundreds of) hours invest, i finally got victron to listen and they indeed have excellent, competent engineers. I had one remote session with the engineer and shortly after got a fixed firmware ..

Of course i did not expect to be in the same bad spot again by switching to the better (more mainstream) way of using the equipment in ESS mode 1/2 .. but it is too late to change now.
Attached is a pic of the install, which has 2 more multiplus working as independent UPSses for private home and office to get 100% clean 230V there (edp here has a lot of voltage drops resulting in flickering). Its in the old adega, now even more beautiful with paint (and more distribution boxes, ATS etc).

There is also an important recommendation i can make: add an ATS 'the other way' as you would usually do ! my ATS connects the quinta automatically to EDP in case of a failure of the victrons, and .. a (felt) overload or any coughing by any of the Victrons might throw everything into fault, leaving you unpowered .. better be on grid than with a blackout. I use a chinese 63A motorized transfer switch from Amazon, 65€ and works very well.

Johannes



energy.jpg

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Nice :) so it is my understanding that the two smaller Multiplus are disconnected from mains and also "blindly" connected to the battery pack? (no charging, just sourcing current)

well that's the idea :) but i still have them connected to mains so i can pass through mains in case the batteries would be empty (should not happen as i have ESS on the 'big part' which will nourish the battery).

You seem to have a particularly weak connection to the grid, way worse than ours.
Similarly to what Robert said, our grid voltage can lower 15% if we pull 30A, but it's overall stable and predictable. The grid by itself is fine.

You mention that disconnecting during the day solves your problem.
In our case, disabling LOM is the only solution and we don't feel the need to disconnect anymore.
With LOM enabled, it doesn't matter how much current we draw from the grid, the instability is unpredictable and can happen even with no load at all.
It hurts the soul to hear the inverter struggling when this was happening.

When it comes to readings over Modbus, and different values comparing in/out, I would assume that's a software timing issue. The values you're reading are probably async between themselves. But I didn't look into it, this is purely a guess.

Hi footswitch, nice idea about the software timing, but if you have a 100% stable, reported grid frequency (which i can confirm from other equipment) and the victron to loads output is different, sorry, cannot be. Green is frequency reported on output, yellow is Grid phase one reported frequency. It's not my major concern right now but it can be a hint where LOM detection might fail.

Now to say something positive here .. when i go off grid (yes, works with a single modbus write to register 33, no additional relay needed) the installation behaves absolutely perfect. All super stable even with quite a distributed 'load grid', 7kw water pump with on/off etc. Victron ROCKS when being disconnected from the grid. So my plan definitely is to be off grid as much as possible and only connect to charge batteries in winter or when batteries are depleted.screenshot-2021-02-26-at-014635.png

So, via modbus you can set it to 'Offline' and it ignores the grid (even when it is attached ?). Can you explain more about this?

Can you also set it in Passthrough mode? Does it than keep an eye out on the fronius?

The thing is, when I don't use ESS (don't install it) I don't have problems with the LOM. I use the PV Assistant for controlling the Fonius (this also works). Only in ESS mode there are LOM issues!

Robert

Interesting indeed.

Yes the Victrons work fine off-grid.

We have a similar need; initially we thought about doing that same "workaround" of disconnecting during the day (and honestly what's better for zero injection), and consider mains as it were a backup generator, but this doesn't solve the instability of LOM detection, which is what we wanted to preserve (because it provides the quickest changeover if/when the grid fails)

I agree, it now sounds like we are trying to solve this problem. I am already becoming more of an expert than I want to be ;).

It should be Victron that should work together with us, not against us. No reaction up until now (not even a personal message).

I keep hope (against all odds) that they will respond.

Robert

sorry for the late reply. i have a gavazzi at the entry (ET340) and i can confirm, if you command the multipluses (via venus/modbus) to 'inverter only' mode they go clean off-grid, i see average 1-2W power use (i guess the gavazzi itself or the indicator lamps at ESS entry in the distribution box) and NOTHING else. When connected, lots of noise +/-500W and often more.
I tried manually off grid (using circuit breakers) and ended up in a fault without power on multiplus outputs, so actually cutting power to the system will cause problems for whatever reason. I just imagine grid goes off and on, and victron goes to fault mode :( .. but as i dont trust at this time i have an ATS which, in case of victron fault, gives me the grid direct. that paid off already .. with LOM issues i have power breaks on victrons outputs for no obvious reasons.
Here is a usual grid day (taken from gavazzi at farm entry, i am disconnected so 0 load and 0 feedback)

screenshot-2021-02-27-at-010528.png

Thanks! First I will try to deal with Victron regarding the LOM issue. I hope to find a solution but not very confident about this. I heard there is another inverter brand that apparently doesn't have the problem with the grid. Before I make the wrong decision (again) I want to be sure of that.

footswitch, going off grid during the day for me seems like the absolute best solution. at least for me. i have 6 MP5000 so more than enough power, and my grid connection has changing voltages from 210V to 240V and sometimes down to 200. So flickering lights . .and going off grid, as long as there is enough battery or sunlight, solves all problems. on grid with transfer switch closed i import the power issues from edp and changing voltages are really annoying.
i hope to be 24/7 off grid in summer, running with batteries during the night. i have about 20kwh electrical farm equipment plus car, just need to make sure i charge those during the day and not in the evening from the batteries. call it load management :) all is on wifi relays and i have most control programmed :)

@jacola we tried switching register 33 between 'inverter only' and 'on' and, in fact, it does a very clean changeover. Maybe we'll integrate a microcontroller next to the Venus GX, just to read/write Modbus values based on what we want to achieve. This is much better than cutting ACin externally. Thanks for the tip.

I am working on advanced code right now for this ..
Last night i was dumb enough to switch to inverter only (via modbus/tcp), and drove the battery down until ESS (rightfully!) switched off. My chinese ATS saved me from power out but .. so learned that lesson.
Furthermore, i need more functionality: with six multiplus-II 5000, if they go to scheduled charge, they suck so much energy from the grid that i get disconnected by this magical portugese overload switch .. and if i limit the power with DVCC setting, my solar production (up to 20kwp) can not charge the battery ..

So while ESS can do quite some things by itself, i am adding outside logic to
- switch to clean island grid whenever i dont want/need to charge
- connect to grid whenever i will need a charge (based on time and battery charge)
- switch the max. charge current between 100A night and 500A day
- advanced .. i will also use the weatherforecast (wunderground) and time of year to define the charge to start the day with .. charging half price in the night and trying to stay off grid for the high cost time (8am to 10pm daily for me).

I am really excited about the victron performance when off grid, and although i suffer from that LOM issues, also, i have to say being grid connected makes little sense unless i really need to charge because of the changing EDP voltages (=flickering lights).

As it is also my profession to do such control solutions, i will be happy to share my experiences, code and knowledge with anyone who wants here. My company builds and delivers reliable IT automation controllers worldwide, and of course i use one of those, but the very same stuff can trivially be done with a Raspberry. As i program the solutions in lua (high level interpreted), the code is portable, very easy to use and install.
Again, happy to help as hobby, no commercial interest. I have sorted out quite some things, from low level VE.bus monitoring with a Mk3 to CAN bus sniffing of pylontech ..
By the way, i also push the data points to a cloud visualisation setup (a 3€/month server) with victoriametrics and grafana, giving a perfect base for detailed analysis ... i'll share it all for those interested.
Pedro, my installer, went over and above in supporting everything and now ordered a ziehl for my installation, but i hope victron can address the LOM solutions in ESS, from past debugging i know Victron has very competent, dedicated engineers which know what they do, they just need to find the time to get onto this. So i have hope and are the first to volunteer to work with them to get LOM solved for all. Even if it takes months, i trust it will be solved.

Johannes

Ok but ACin current limiting is done in the inverter config, not DVCC.

You can change/lock/unlock this value in VEConfig.

Am I missing something?


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sorry for not being precise, you are right. i am not using that, i control the CHARGING current not the input current. in my setup i also control the major loads. so i can manage the total power drawn, and with the charging current i can set how much the victron setup will put into the batteries (there is a modbus register for that too):

screenshot-2021-02-27-at-221859.png

Yes, I see that. What I mean is, if you don’t want the main breaker to fire, then why not just limiting the AC input?
That’s why I’m asking, what am I missing here? Why aren’t you limiting ACin?

footswitch avatar image
footswitch answered ·

Hello people, Luis here, I'm joining this thread because I'm yet another customer with exactly the same problems.

Also in Portugal - what's up with that?

Our unit is a Quattro 48/15000.

I would also like to know what Victron has to say.

- Honestly, our main concern was to get the system working as intended, and without the need to be constantly checking in.

- And yes, we also believe that it's important to mention the concern for the overall health of the electrical appliances, while the unit was behaving like that.

Let me tell you, for us it took about 9 months total, from initially repairing and then replacing the Quattro because it was overloading itself and eventually died completely.
Until the final verdict of disabling LOM.

At one point we tested a single Multiplus-II 5000, it worked fine for days, no issues.

Overall a very unpleasant experience, and an additional cost that wasn't supposed to come up.


[EDIT] This is something I failed to mention initially: with LOM detection disabled, the transfer takes too long, and some electrical appliances reset. We tried raising the minimum voltage, and it helps to an extent, but the problem persists.

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robertg66 avatar image
robertg66 answered ·

Dear mister Vader @mvader (Victron Energy),

I don't know what your ideas are when you read these post but for me being your customer I find this shocking.

Clearly this is a problem that exist for a long time and sitting back doing nothing may cause human lives. Did you think about this? I did, before I switched off the LOM to test. I went to the transformer to see if there was anybody around. The idea of electrocuting somebody didn't appeal to me.

Reading that more people have similar problems means more people are switching of LOM (to test). What happens when they forget to switch it back on? Who will be responsible? Don't forget, they are doing something that is mentioned in a manual written by you.

It's just a matter of time until something bad happens!

I read also about the material implications (and the cost to fix this) ,this is already something that crosses a line (you may hold Victron accountable for this). But knowing about this problem for a long time doing nothing about this and therefore willingly play with humans lives is something that I don't understand. I think this is a more important issue than my question about the next step what to do with my faulty products.

Respond and fix this! Don't wait until it's to late...

Robert

P.s. I hope more customers, installers and dealers will respond to this post.

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Pedro Lima avatar image
Pedro Lima answered ·

Hi everyone,


Yes, this is quite frustrating for everyone. And this puts us (dealers) in a really bad position. How can we explain the installers / end-users "well, the grid detection method from Victron its flawed, you have to ask your grid operator to install a new transformer close to your place, or install a 500€ device (with all the breakers and relays, that's what the Ziehl ends up costing).

Specially, when there are already grid-inverters working fine, with no LOM issues at all, this gets even more difficult to swallow.

Specially with @footswitch Luís, it was quite a pain, he was driving very often to the end-user house at 10PM in the night, to check what was happening. It took some time for Victron, 1 replacement inverter, (we needed to go through Level1 support, all the basic checks, that took a long time, and we had to pressure them for answers) to admit / suggest this was a LOM fault. Luckly Luis's customer had a lot of patience...

In the end, we were so fed up with the lack of response from Victron, me and Luis agreed to pay the cost of the relay between us, and that's was the solution. Probably that's what we are going to do with Johannes and Robert too (our customers).

This put's us, dealers, (for installers of course our margin is very low) in a really bad position. Basically our margin on Luis Victron was not enough to cover the cost of the 50%. AND, Luis went into a loss, with all the travelling to the customer, testing, etc..

@mvader (Victron Energy) I don't think this is acceptable from Victron. Multipluses II are certified AR-N 4105, they are supposed to work fine, not to be faulty and require an external protection.

If they are not capable to comply with this grid code (or any grid code at all) under certain grid conditions, that certificate should be revoked. Our under those conditions, you should offer the external relay. And this problems should be clearly written on the spec sheet, something like:

*7) Under some circunstances, our grid detection method will not work, and it will require a Ziehl relay.

I mean. Who pays for all the pain and money installers go through? Who pays when appliances get damaged because of the "blackouts"? What happens (very low probability I know), if someone is working on the transformer while the no-LOM test is being performed?

I expect an answer from the team, going silent and ignore problems, will not solve this.

Best regards

Pedro

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footswitch wrote he has a Quattro.

For Quattro, an anti-islanding device should have been installed from the start. That's installer error to not use one.

Are you sure?

In UK Quattro is certified to run without anti-islanding device.

I do not know how it is i Portugal.

UK is one of the few exceptions.

Apparently in Portugal they set the inverters with the German grid code.

But if we have a Quattro and German grid code, the ESS should not engage.

That's why you need a password for grid code.

So that (in theory) a qualified person makes the setup, according to local regulations.

But if there is no grid code for Portugal, why installer selects Germany and not UK?

In @footswitch case he selected UK if his Quattro was working with ESS enabled. (if in fact ESS was enabled)

ESS is enabled in the cases discussed here.


If you have the password, you can change to whatever grid code you want.

It's the installer's job to follow the local regulations, as I said.

Clearly there is no Portugese grid-code. Do you have a document explaining the differences between the different grid codes? Or are you implying just to test them all to see which grid code is the best in our case?

When choosing the products and when making the settings, the installer must make sure that he complies with the local regulations.


ESS does not work if no grid code is set. There is no grid code for Portugal to be set in Victron inverters. So maybe you should not use ESS in Portugal with Victron inverters, for instance. I don't know your local regulations.

Yes, you're right, with Quattro 15000VA legally we should have used the Ziehl from the beginning. But that does not explain the bad results coming from the LOM detection, as although the Quattro's are not certified for Germany grid codes, they are for some other codes.

I agree with what you said, but if ESS is enabled and Quattro is in use, it cannot be German grid setting. Probably UK grid setting is used.

I don't have the files here, but I'll make sure to check those assumptions.

Regardless, and this is something I failed to mention initially, with LOM detection disabled, the transfer takes too long, and some electrical appliances reset. We tried raising the minimum voltage, and it helps to an extent, but the problem persists.

robertg66 avatar image
robertg66 answered ·

Hi Victron team,

I am sure you are aware of my post and the problems I have with the LOM. Today I ran the installation for a few hours with LOM disabled to see if this would work for a longer time. In addition, I checked regularly if somebody wanted to do some work on the transformer (EDP can’t get to it easily). I noticed that the installation is still aware of the grid connection when I switch off LOM. When I switch the main circuit breaker of, it reacts instantly by disconnecting and going into Inverter mode. While working I played around with the ESS settings and it works like a charm. In the end, I regretted that I needed to switch the LOM back on.

3 years ago, I read about the Micro grid and liked the concept of it. I bought the Fronius that year because I knew I could integrate this later with the Victron. It took me almost a year to sort out what I wanted from Victron, thinking this would work! Besides, being Dutch I love to support Dutch companies. Now I am wondering: did I make the right choice? Will I get a response from Victron or do you leave me: hanging out to dry?

The dealer confirmed the LOM failure; he cannot do much more for me. Surely, he does not like this situation because the implications are huge. In future, selling a Victron product in Portugal will be a challenge because power lines are always a risk (or sell it it always with a Ziehl). Besides, it’s a product from Victron and therefore the responsibilities lie with the producer.

For sure, the product is not up to expectations and therefore I as a customer want to know: do you want to try to solve the LOM problem? Do I send both MP-II’s back for repair or modification? Or do you want to go for a full refund including cost (like shipping cost etc.)? Al so an option could be to help me with the Ziehl and sort things out that way?

I serenely hope Victron will look into this problem in more detail and work towards a solution for all customers that have and will experience LOM issues. I doubt that I, or the others that responded to my post, will hear from Victron on this community.

Robert

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mvader (Victron Energy) avatar image
mvader (Victron Energy) answered ·

Hi Robert. First my apologies for taking a while to answer here; Guy as well as others highlighted this thread to me in the past week.

Before looking for alternatives and a possible refund, @robertg66 lets see if we can find a solution by having a closer look at your system. I’ll make sure you’re contacted by email latest on Monday. The actual diagnosis might take a short while longer, the one engineer that is best to look at this is out of office the coming week. All the best, Matthijs

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Hi Matthijs,

Thanks for replying to me on my earlier post. I like your suggestion to get this issue solved. It will benefit us all!

Please take your time. On Monday I have (must) to fly back to Holland. In the meantime my system will be off-grid.

As you can see more have similar issues. I am sure that, when we work together, we find the issue regarding the LOM when in ESS mode. Looking at the post of the others they have excellent knowledge when it comes to your products ;).

Have a nice weekend,

Robert

Hi @Robert, I've sent you an email.

Hi Matthijs, I have been contacted a few weeks ago and I assume your team looked at the data that's stored within VRM.. To my knowledge that's all that has been done. My suggestions to have a closer look together with your team, simulate what's wrong (it's easy to replicate) haven't been answered yet. I am not sure if your team is taking a closer look! I know that others, with similar problems, have the same experience with your team.

I will try to call you on Monday or Tuesday.

Robert

Dear Robert, I can assure you that it has enough attention. Its easy to replicate, also in our lab. The problem is that its not easy to solve - if it where it would have been solved a long time ago.

Also, any changes made to that (safety related) section of the code mean we need to retest against all countries gridcode requirements and then also recertify all units against all countries in an external lab.

So, the reason for you not hearing or seeing any tangible information is most likely that its impossible to give any expectation or status update until its solved. I’ll make sure you get an update Monday or Tuesday.

All the best. Matthijs

Pedro Lima avatar image Pedro Lima mvader (Victron Energy) ♦♦ ·

Dear Mathjis,

We understand that, the problem is the situation that this problems create.

Who pays for this? The end-user customer, installer, dealer, distributor, or Victron?

I think the only fair solution would be Victron offer the relay in this situations.

Best regards

Dear Pedro, understood; and agreed. Our support desk is contacting people from this thread by email.

fred48 avatar image
fred48 answered ·

Hi, I am not familiar at all with Portugese regulations, but if it is possible to apply a German grid regulation, it might be possible to apply an Australien one too. Why not applying the one with the "outside joined" N wire. In this case the ground relay tests can be avoided. Perhaps this might help as a back up for the issue. But don't forget to do the wiring, if you want to test.

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Pedro Lima avatar image
Pedro Lima answered ·

Ok problem solved.

For reference:
After we emailed Victron, stating that we would contact the the EU regulators, to revoke the VDE 4105 certifcate, Victron finally replied via email, they will offer a Ziehl relay.
So, for customers, installers, dealers and distributors, dealing with this issue in the future, this is the solution (the fair solution IMO).

Thanks.

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