Easysolar 12/1600/70 Inverter Will Not Run Small Washing Machine

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away asked Dec 8, '18

Easysolar 12/1600/70 Inverter Will Not Run Small Washing Machine

Hello. I have an Easysolar 12/1600/70 which is connected to 480AH of LiFePO4 batteries and 1100W of solar panels. (The system also has a Smartsolar 100/30, but that is not relevant to this question.) I have the equipment installed in my RV, which has a small front-loading washing machine in it (Dometic WMD 1050.). The washing machine will not run successfully on the inverter, no matter what I try, yet the same washing machine will run successfully using a Honda eu10i (1 KVA) inverter generator. Curiously, if I plug the generator into the RV and use the Easysolar inverter in power assist mode, the washing machine will not run, but it runs fine if connected directly to the generator.

The symptoms are: The washing machine will power up. A program cycle that does not use the water heating element can be selected. The machine can be started and the water solenoid will open and allow the washing machine to fill. During this process the bowl of the washing machine rotates slowly, as it is intended to do. Once filled, the machine switches to the wash cycle and the motor attempts to rotate the bowl, but it only rotates about 1/4 of a turn and stops. It repeats this process endlessly. When connected to the generator, at this point in the process, the bowl rotates correctly.

I get no alarms of any sort from the Easysolar 12/1600/70. No low voltage alarms (I have set the input DC low voltage cut-out to as low as it will go) are recorded on the alarm list.

Before I installed the Easysolar, I had a cheap Chinese-made 1000W, pure sine wave inverter and it would run the same washing machine with ease. This is very frustrating as I have invested a lot of money into the Easysolar, BMV, Colour control GX, etc and it is not performing a fairly straightforward function. The same inverter will run an electric toaster and my wife's hair-dryer, both of which are rated rated at 1200W, without any trouble. I am assuming that the inverter does not like the inductive load, or the 240VAC waveform of the inverter is not good enough for the washing machine when under load.

Can you suggest any settings that I may have wrong, that are preventing the washing machine from working?

Thank you.

Phoenix Inverter EasySolar All-in-One

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peterj commented · Jan 01, 2020 at 10:15 AM

Hi away, just wondered if you had any update on this. I have the same washing machine and the same problem, but a 12|3000|120-16 multiplus inverter.

Thanks for your time

Peter

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Rob Duthie peterj commented · Jan 01, 2020 at 10:22 AM

Hi

As the washing has some sort of electronic motor control the Victron inverters don't like it

and will not operate correctly, Software and or hardware changes are required.

I had electronic heat gun same thing only pulse on and off, normal one OK.

Regards

Rob D

NZ

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Modifications Space

Node Red Space

Answer 1 · 2018-12-08T19:38:45Z

wkirby answered · Dec 08, 2018 at 07:38 PM

What cables are you running between your battery and the Easysolar?

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Answer 2 · 2018-12-08T20:53:33Z

away answered · Dec 08, 2018 at 08:53 PM

I cannot answer that with any great authority. The system was installed by the RV manufacturer after I provided them with the components. Going on appearances, the connecting cables are 16mm in diameter, including sheath. This would make them at least 32mm² and possibly 50mm² The length of the cable run is 1 metre. I see where you are coming from, in terms of volt-drop, but the system does not give any low-volt alarms at all.

Having said that, you got me thinking. There is an anomaly in the Wiring Standards in Australia that requires 2.5 sq mm wiring to be installed for household 240VAC power outlets, but RVs are allowed to be cabled with just 1.5 sq mm. I know that this is how my RV is wired. There may be the possibility that the 240VAC has a volt-drop significant enough that the washing machine is sensitive to it and doesn't function. This would explain why there are no alarms on the inverter and associated equipment.

To test this theory I will have to get hold of an oscilloscope or data-logger that will allow me to see what is happening on the AC side of things.

Thanks for your reply. It may have helped me solve my own problem.

Edit: I have just performed the calculations. Even with 1.0 sq mm AC cable, the volt drop would be just 4V, which should not be an issue. So this is very unlikely to be the problem.

I also did the DC calculations and, Assuming 35mm² cable, the volt drop would be around 0.2V at 100A current draw. Even if the cable were just 16mm² , the volt drop would not be significant. I have the low-volt cut-out of the inverter set way below that.

I'm at a loss to know what to do to figure this out. I have limited resources when it comes to testing, having retired from my former career in electronics I no longer have test equipment such as oscilloscopes and data-loggers available to me.

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wkirby ♦♦ commented · Dec 08, 2018 at 09:01 PM

50mm² would be on the low side for my comfort. I'd like go with 70mm² for that kind of installation.
1.5mm² should be enough on the 240V side to turn the drum especially with the heater off. I think your washing machine has a maximum load of 1.6KW which I assume includes the heater.
However, if you are able to conduct some tests, that would be very helpful.
Sure, if the inverter had experienced an overload, then it would have advised of this.

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Answer 3 · 2019-01-06T21:27:53Z

Rob Duthie answered · Jan 06, 2019 at 09:27 PM

If the Chinese one runs OK on the same battery and cables the Easy solar should do as well, so must be it doesn't like inductive loads lagging PF, what is the Power factor of your washing machine? what is the power rating of the washing machine.

it might on the rating plate of the machine or you will have to measure it using a PF Quality meter.

I have noticed in the data sheet that it has a crest factor of 3:1 for non linear loads. so it's power output for inductive loads, is much less.

I have used 750watt Selectronic inverter made in Aussie, run a normal sized washing machine OK, so go figure?

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away commented · Jan 09, 2019 at 09:21 AM

Hi

Thanks for responding. Unfortunately, my washing machine is built into the RV, so if there is a rating plate on it, it's not where I can get at it without doing a lot of dismantling. I will try and find one in a RV dealer's premises to see if I can have a look for a rating plate. The Dometic website is dreadful and the specifications shown, both on the site and in the user manual, are virtually useless. It is looking more and more like I'm going to have to get hold of an oscilloscope and look at the waveform of the inverter to see if I can figure out what is going on.

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Rob Duthie away commented · Jan 09, 2019 at 10:27 AM

The Victron inverter output is sine wave, so shouldn't be a issue , unless the washing has a inverter VSD motor control which most modern washing are these days, which can generate harmonic currents, which does have a effect on the Victron inverter design ,i have noticed with my Mulitplus 2 model when running with no load and when they send a ripple relay control signal down the line my inverter can pull 1200watts of power for no reason just from the harmonic signal which is about the 7th harmonic.

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Rob Duthie Rob Duthie commented · Jan 09, 2019 at 10:31 AM

This is a known issue with the design, so this could be the issue, as the inverters are low freq designs, which will resonate with the lower order harmonics.

which most VSD motor control is the 5th and 7th. Something to think about.

Alot of other inverters run on a higher frequencies, so won't be issue with lower order harmonics.

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away Rob Duthie commented · Jan 13, 2019 at 09:30 AM

I guess I can't do anything about the design of either piece of equipment, so if it is an issue with harmonics then the only fix would be to install a harmonic filter to get rid of any harmonics from the inverter. I looked into building one myself and, unsurprisingly, the cost would be quite prohibitive. It would be as cheap, if not cheaper to by a Chinese knock-off inverter, just to run the washing machine...

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Answer 4 · 2019-01-07T02:03:41Z

tilo answered · Jan 07, 2019 at 02:03 AM

Try using different AC loads together with the washing machine. For example a 100W light bulb, or a 500W lamp. When you run additionally another AC load together with the washing machine, will the additional load turn off or flicker at the moment when your washing machine stops? If not, the problem is not that the inverter does not like your washing machine, but your washing machine does not like the inverter.

Do you have maybe AES with modified sine wave (the standby energy saving mode) activated with VE Config in the inverter tab?

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away commented · Jan 09, 2019 at 09:26 AM

Thanks for the suggestions. I checked my configuration and AES is not enabled. I will try the idea of using a light bulb. It is a simple test that may tell an interesting story. I'll keep you posted.

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Answer 5 · 2022-02-16T17:50:35Z

bricki answered · Feb 16, 2022 at 05:50 PM

Hi Away,

did you get any solution? I know, it's three years ago, but I'm facing the same problem with my Multiplus inverter together with an 10 yers old washing machine. In former times, with an older Phoenix inverter from Victron, everything runs smotth. When I let a hairdryer run in parallel with the washing machine consuming around 800W, my washing machine don't reset. But when I switch off the hairdryer, the washing machine does reset...

Thanks

Peter

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away commented · Nov 12, 2023 at 03:43 AM

@Bricki, I did not have any success with this and I have now sold the RV. In the end I just ran the generator whenever we needed t use the washing machine. I now have an off-grid system at home, using 3 x Phoenix 5kVA inverters in parallel. You can't begin to imagine the anxiety I went through prior to disconnecting the grid, all the while wondering if the washing machine would work on Victron gear. As it happens, I worried for no reason. The washing machine in the house is a Bosch and it worked just fine.

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Answer 6 · 2023-11-12T05:47:38Z

albert-legrrand answered · Nov 12, 2023 at 05:47 AM

Very, very interesting !!!

Rob Duthie's analysis seems correct. V's silence has been deafening on this subject....

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