Will Eco or AES Mode work for a Refrigerator - There MUST be an answer!? Victron, a little HELP?

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laroo asked Feb 23, '23

Will Eco or AES Mode work for a Refrigerator - There MUST be an answer!? Victron, a little HELP?

Will the Eco or AES (Phoenix Compact) mode work with a new AC Refrigerator?

Well after scanning this forum, asking my Victron Dealer, and scouring a dozen RV user groups - yep hours and hours - no one has an answer to the question above. Victron Energy Corp - come on, this should be something you can step up and help us answer!?

Users have concluded that the scanning in the Eco (or AES?) is not enough to let the fridge controller fire up, start working, then request more power to run / start the compressor. However, some of these users have only a 500w version which may not be enough, or they don't seem to really dive into the all the programing options for these modes. I have read plenty of 500w Victron inverters in regular mode being reported as "no problem". But in combination with the Eco or AES mode - maybe an issue with not enough power?

I have yet to see a user that reported they went extensively into testing the program variables the Eco mode - they talk about increasing the scan mode from 3 seconds to 30 seconds, but that seems to be where their testing ends. It seem that a proper balance of wattage, scan time, and frequency would work. Maybe a 5 minute scan every 30 minutes being the answer, but honestly, I am a newbie and trying to find solutions before diving into investments and installations and committing to an AC Fridge over a 12V (Concerned a 12V in my 115 degree summer heat will not perform as well as the AC version, plus the AC cost is a fraction and replacements / repairs are easy). It's all a balance.....LOL.

SO - Victron Engergy - how about some help here!?!? Users have no idea, Dealers have no idea, I suggest you could increase your inverter sales 100x IF the Eco or AES modes could be confirmed to work on a newer AC Fridge (especially the 10cuft sized units). And, then tell how to properly program these energy modes to work.

Thank you!

Larry

Phoenix Inverter

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Answer 1 · 2023-03-09T03:01:53Z

laroo answered · Mar 09, 2023 at 03:01 AM

Apparently an unexplored topic! Ok - possibly can someone point me in the direction of a complete guide to programming the ECO mode and the available parameters? Yes? Maybe? Please!!!!

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kevgermany ♦♦ commented · Mar 09, 2023 at 05:14 AM

There's no magic and it's well explained in the manuals. About all I'd add is that AES needs a minimum wattage setting of about 30W before it kicks in. This might have been fixed in later firmware, not sure

What's the issue?

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laroo kevgermany ♦♦ commented · Mar 28, 2023 at 10:15 PM

Thank you! So I explored again all the manuals and videos, again - I found a video that addresses the AES mode, and a short mention of the same in a Manual - but can't find any instructions that reference the Eco mode programming noted on the Spec Sheet and the programable variables or exactly how it works. The manual does state this mode is turned on with a Dip Switch. Per the Spec Sheet Eco mode drops no-load on the 12/1250 from 7w to 1w. That is significant in a small system. I have concluded the AES produces a modified wave that will probably NOT work with a fridge.

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Answer 2 · 2023-03-09T05:49:48Z

Trevor Bird answered · Mar 09, 2023 at 05:49 AM

@Laroo ….I don’t know what “eco” mode is. I know the inverters we use have a couple of modes to reduce idle (no load) current. Those modes are “search” and “AES” mode. In search mode the inverter senses load and switches off if no load is sensed and then looks again at a predetermined future time ( a couple of seconds) for a predetermined ( say over a few watts) load. If the load is sensed the inverter switches on the provide current for the load.

In AES mode the sine wave is slightly modified so it is not quite so pure, contains multiple harmonics and in that mode takes less power to produce for low power loads.

Some equipment may be sensitive to the AES mode sine wave distortion and other equipment will not care.

If you are happy to have power at your outlets go off and on until a reasonable load if applied you could run in search mode.

From my experience search mode is just annoying because very light load devices switch on and off as they don’t draw enough power to sustain the inverter to an on condition. I have not seen problems with AES because we haven’t ever deployed it because the savings are not significant enough in our view to distort the sine wave.

I am glad those features have been included because the choice is ours. If we had very limited battery storage and only intermittent loads it is nice to know we can take steps to reduce our idle current if we really want to.

Now for your question. Will it power you refrigerator? They question should not be asked of the inverter manufacturer but it should be asked of the refrigerator manufacturer. Will the refrigerator manufacturer handle a distorted sine wave or will it require a reasonably pure sine wave power supply. They specifications for the refrigerator regarding maximum total harmonic distortion could be compared to the distortion of the sine wave when in AES mode.

It would be absolutely impossible for a company like Victron to provide guidance regarding what devices can be powered from their distorted sine wave output because every device may react differently.

Put simply you are asking the wrong manufacturer. If you ask the refrigerator manufacturer you may get an answer but you have asked Victron a question which is literally impossible to answer. The programming and operation of the two modes I mentioned is well outlined in the manuals.

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laroo commented · Mar 28, 2023 at 10:24 PM

Well, I understand the Eco mode (found only the Ve.Direct line) to be similar to the search function, with a programable stop and start power setting, but delivers a Pure Sine Wave. But again, I can't find ANY references in Victron - I have spent hours following all the links. I conclude the AES mode that modifies the Pure Sine wave would NOT be good for a newer fridge. The information I need is to understand the range of programming on the Eco Mode - I suggest that IF one can extend the time period the Eco Mode can look for a low power load, it would allow the Fridge Circuit board to turn on, power up, take a temp reading, then kick on the compressor. I can't get the power draw from the circuit board or how long this takes from the Fridge Mfg. So, I am left with trying to evaluate this feature based on programming specs, which I cannot find. It seems there should be some type of documentation, yes? Possibly it only exists in the software? I have spent hours on the Victron site looking for it. Even then, it may need the product connected as the Inverter has a DIP switch to turn this feature on.

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Answer 3 · 2023-03-09T05:54:24Z

hjohnson answered · Mar 09, 2023 at 05:54 AM

It will all come down to how the thermostat in your refrigerator works. If it’s an old school electromechanical type thermostate (bimetalic strip closes a circuit to turn on the compressor) then yes, it will most likely work. If it’s more modern and uses integrated circuits to do its thing, then no, it probably won’t work.

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laroo commented · Mar 28, 2023 at 10:28 PM

Agree - depending on the range of programming available for the Eco Mode, which I can't find. 3 dealers in, NOT ONE has experience with the Eco Mode, and keep coming back to AES mode. And, I can't find ANY literature on it..... I am resigned to just buying the product and testing. The issue - if it works, the 1200 is ideal. If not, the 800 is the right choice. But, the variance in price and no-load power draw in regular mode between these is not that material - so I will go with the 1200, test, and report back. Just a bummer that the info is not available anywhere.....

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Answer 4 · 2023-03-29T08:23:20Z

klim8skeptic answered · Mar 29, 2023 at 08:23 AM

@Laroo My 2 cents worth.

If you have a really old fridge that is cyclic defrost on the fridge (with a mechanical thermostat), and manual defrost of the freezer section, aes might work for you.

However if you have a "frost free" type fridge, aes wont work for you.

Older FF units have a mechanical ac powered timer to engage the defrost heaters to defrost the cooling coils. The timer requires only draw a couple of watts, and need to be powered constantly.

Modern FF units of course have electronic thermostats and are micro computer controlled for all of their defrost controls. And as such need to be powered constantly.

YMMV.

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Answer 5 · 2023-03-29T19:51:55Z

haelo answered · Mar 29, 2023 at 07:51 PM

I got the same issue on my boat. The compressor fridge needs approx 5x its nominal power to start up. When startin up the inverter "feels" its load during soft start . When the load is weak (the fridge can not run on the low test voltage from the inverter), I solved this problem by switching the load delayed on.by a time relay, Ten seconds After startup the normal load can be connected. Succes! And greetings from the Netherlands.

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