Multi Plus II - Stop the random Relay Test

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stdl asked Jul 23, '19

Multi Plus II - Stop the random Relay Test

We have a 3ph set up with MP2s with an ESS. We have the system working with a changeover switch, the system operates without issues bypassing the essential loads/charging the ESS and powering the loads from the Grid. We have only run the system powering the essential loads from the ESS for 10mins at a time, it operates as expected during those tests. The 1st incident after 7 days of faultless operation and second incident after 11 days of faultless operation, Relay Test Fault. The system appears to auto run a random relay test. It fails the test and switches off, Error 11. It appears that they were #45 0x8200024 (Error Occurred GND Relay Error) and #50 0x800002 Relay Test OK PE2 Closed Error (but states Relay Test Fault in Alarm Log) errors. These errors ocur out of office hours and no one is there to reset right away. When staff return and reset system it operates. Elec Eng is sure N and E are bonded correctly and seperate between essential and non-essential boards. Without this random test we would be fine. Can we stop this test from running?

Multiplus-II error

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Answer 1 · 2019-07-24T10:32:19Z

Guy Stewart (Victron Community Manager) answered · Jul 24, 2019 at 10:32 AM

The test indicates a fault, and the system must respond to the fault condition.

It is not designed to test randomly though, it occurs when the relay is activated, either by a grid outage, programming setting or something else.

Disabling the test that occurs when the relay is changed is usually forbidden by the grid rules and standards compliance.

If you are certain the system is wired correctly, you will need to contact your dealer/regional Victron Manager to discuss what to do next.

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Answer 2 · 2019-07-24T18:41:54Z

stdl answered · Jul 24, 2019 at 06:41 PM

Thanks Guy, understood, the test occurs due to:

1. Grid outage, does the test occur instantaeous to the outage, or when?, the inverters are servicing the load all the time (ready to UPS the essential loads) and yet the system does not fault mode, why is that if there is a wiring issue?

2. programming setting - please elaborate.

3. something else - have to smile at that, any chance of more guidance?

Thanks, Simon

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Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ commented · Jul 24, 2019 at 07:36 PM

Hi @STDL

I've looked into the system briefly, and the first error #11 occurred on 2019-06-22 11:17:05.

As this is a 6 inverter system, please have an experienced installer check the system, and if he / she cannot find anything, contact your distributor for the next steps.

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stdl Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ commented · Jul 24, 2019 at 08:00 PM

Thanks, it was installed by an experienced installer and has been investigated by another. We are checking Grid side supply wiring and load side (again). We are monitoring it closely. I just wanted some more info on the error. Especially as we will be adding 16kWp PV to it soon.

The 1st error you note was actually generated while site staff incorrectly reset it. The first 'random' error was on the 27/06.

Thanks.

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Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ stdl commented · Jul 24, 2019 at 09:04 PM

Hi @STDL

I've sent you an email.

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Martin Gasthuber Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ commented · Aug 13, 2019 at 05:39 PM

Hi,

today i watched the MP II 48 5000 doing some relay tests (hearing the relays clicking in a row), and sticks in 'inverter only mode' for about 30sec, then switching to normal mode. The grid was fine (all other direct connected stuff has not seen any glitches) - the event log in the CCGX shows nothing, only the history plots of the 'VE Bus state' shows a few seconds 'Inverter Mode' nothing else. Any chance to find out more details ? (the MP runs latest firmware)

best regards,

Martin

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Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ Martin Gasthuber commented · Aug 13, 2019 at 07:25 PM

you'd have to watch the VRM logs. might also have to do with the gride code (testing after x-time?)

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Martin Gasthuber Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ commented · Aug 19, 2019 at 08:17 PM

Hi Daniël,

the VRM Log is empty (4 days before and until today) - i've done a firmware upgrade on the MP a few days before, that was the last activity - nothing else done days before or after 'by hand' - i swear ;-) The GridCode is set to latest VDE-AR-N, internal NS protection and LOM type B (although i would like to enable the faster mode A, but that is obviously not available yet.

best regards,

Martin

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Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ Martin Gasthuber commented · Aug 19, 2019 at 08:38 PM

Hi Martin,

I'm sorry but what do you mean with that message? does it work as expected or not?

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Josef Trpišovský Martin Gasthuber commented · May 18, 2023 at 11:39 AM

Hello Martin,

I have the exact same behavior. 3ph system (3x MP II units - 48V/3000/35), Pylontech batteries (around 14 kWh), 3x MPPT for solar array - around 10 kWp), everything updated to the latest firmware. The system is connected also to Grid (installation in house/building), grid OK - simply "common" photovoltaic installation.

I had problem with Test relay fault on Communication Error, finally one of the units was repaired (motherboard was exchanged). In the past it returned the error randomly after a few days of operation, notably more often when the inverter inverted "more" (sunny days = more often errors). The wiring was OK, everything checked SEVERAL times including support of local Victron dep.

After the exchange of the motherboard, now it has been for more than 2 weeks without error, but today probably some strange the testing happened:

- Multipluses II "clicked" (noise) and turned to Inverter mode only and I catched on VRM that "Grid" connection disappeared (as I was in front of my computer where my VRM screen runs)

- After a while (30 sec or so) they started to "sync" (strange noises "td-td-td" like switching on/off some relays) - the same process happens always when it connects to the grid (which is OK)

- After a while everything was as before (OK)

- Nothing was written to Event or Alarm log, I can only see Inverting in VE.Bus.Status graph (at least I think it was during the time the process which I described occured).

The question is, what would happen (if my understanding is correct, that it was disconnected from grid) if at that time some "heavy" consuming device was operating (like dishwasher + washing machine during some heating...) and the immediate consumed power would be higher than the invertor can take (in my case around 2400 W per invertor)... Would it switch the phase "off" as it commonly before we replaced the motherboard in one of our invertors? (as I understood during the moment it takes energy from batteries only).

The grid supply was actually OK during that moment, I have no clue WHY it performs the action (test?) during the moment. And even I don't know where to read (in some log??) what exactly it was doing.

Do you have further experience or any information on that topic? And is that behavior "normal" according to you?

Of course we several times read the documentation about Error 8/11 (as before the replacement), but it was not helping us....

Thank you for response,

Josef

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nickdb ♦♦ Josef Trpišovský commented · May 18, 2023 at 11:46 AM

Grid rejection can happen for various reasons, often related to grid quality.

With the mk3usb and veconfigure you can check the NS protection log on the grid tab, it should show the last 3 causes of grid rejection.

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Josef Trpišovský nickdb ♦♦ commented · May 18, 2023 at 12:58 PM

Is it possible also via VRM portal (download configuration and find somewhere the log)? Thank you for information.

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nickdb ♦♦ Josef Trpišovský commented · May 18, 2023 at 01:17 PM

I don't believe so, no.

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Josef Trpišovský nickdb ♦♦ commented · Jun 01, 2023 at 10:38 AM

Hello, is there any list of conditions that have to be met in order to pass the relay testing? Or - oppositely - conditions on when the testing is even started? "Grid conditions" are too general :(

I would mean something like minumum/maximum voltage to trigger the relay switch or something like this. I'm from Czechia (Central Europe) if it matters (if there are any specific conditions related to countries). I know that in case of error, the step is logged but there aren't any specific details related to quality of grid connection...

@mvader (Victron Energy) - might be You could know or provide some details. Thank you in advance.

Josef

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stdl Daniël Boekel (Victron Energy Staff) ♦♦ commented · Sep 16, 2019 at 08:27 AM

Please email me again. Ssame system failure occurred.

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Answer 3 · 2019-08-20T12:08:35Z

nigelfxs answered · Aug 20, 2019 at 12:08 PM

Hi @STDL

I am not sure if this will help, but I have a Multiplus-II 3k unit (single phase) and the relay used to operate 2 or 3 times per day even though there was no noticeable dip in the mains voltage. This stopped when I updated the MP2 firmware from Version 453 to Version 459. The relay has been "quiet" for many weeks now :-)

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